Possibly bad news for Shin?

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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby Bagheera » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:22 am

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:No one is sitting here and saying he should drop what he's doing and finish Eva right here and now. But he himself said in his own words that Eva is more of a huge work load than something he is currently doing for fun. If creating a work like a feature length movie is that much of a chore, it would be in everyone's best interest if Eva was finished so they can move onto something new and not be constantly tied to one series. In fact, that was the whole point in him founding Khara to begin with. Don't just blindly assume people want him to finish Eva just for themselves.


It's in everyone's best interests to take their time and make sure they're in the proper mindsets to do the final movie PROPERLY rather than just forcing themselves to finish it for the sake of getting it done. Going that route will only lead to misery, as the staff won't be doing it for the love of the work and will grow sick of it and just want it over and done with. By taking a break like this they ensure that, when they come back to it, they'll be fresh and eager to go, not just because they want to get it finished but rather because they want to tell the story the way it ought to be told. I await the day they choose to do it, but there's no rush. They will do it when they're good and ready and not a moment before. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby Eliaskar » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:05 am

I'd rather they take their time as well and make sure it's the best it can possibly be as well to be honest. However, let's not get on everyone's backs about being upset about Final's delay, there is nothing wrong with being a little disappointed about more Evangelion content being delayed. Especially when it is the final Rebuild film.

I think we can all sympathize with eachother over our love of Evangelion, so let's not start pointing fingers and saying people are selfish for wanting to see the final film.

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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby cyharding » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:52 am

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:I will be honest here for a bit and admit there is some selfishness to wanting Final out though, but more in the sense that I finally want to move on from Eva. At this point, three and a half years after Q, I feel like it's more of a drag getting through Eva content because there's nothing left to discuss about it other than Final speculations, which will be irrelevant once the movie finally is out.

I will admit that on my part, that it is due to a little selfishness that I want it delayed. I am not comfortable with discussing the reasons in a public manner though.

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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:50 pm

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:At this point, three and a half years after Q, I feel like it's more of a drag getting through Eva content because there's nothing left to discuss about it other than Final speculations, which will be irrelevant once the movie finally is out.


I've been away from the boards for a minute and have likely missed some hot topics, but if this forum means anything, I think it is testament to how much there is within Eva to talk about. The series itself spurs speculation and I'm still piecing together the ending of Q on my own.
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby robersora » Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:19 pm

Even if NTE often defied my notions of I wanted Eva to be, overall they're competent movies with who achieved what they set out to do. So I'm happy to wait for an awesome movie, whenever it'll happen.
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby Arcadia's legacy » Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:24 pm

Out of curiosity, what exactly did you want Eva to be?
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby robersora » Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:03 pm

^
I wanted it to be my mind-blowing savior all over again.
More specifically I wanted NTE to be the same thing NGE was, only better. Until it occurred to me what a childishly reductive thought that was as soon as I realized how pointless it would render NTE's existence.

I remember trembling after watching certain Episodes of Evangelion for the first time... After Episode 18, I called a friend who moved away a few years prior... After contact has naturally declined, this was our reconnecting topic. We're in touch since.

Thanks for your interest, I think many can relate. My love for Eva goes far beyond appreciation for it's mastery of the art of animated story telling, matched only by Utena and FLCL (IMHO)... Evangelion drove me to this site resulting in greatly advancing my English skills and honing my mind. Evangelion made me decide to travel to Japan. Evangelion, gave me strength when I was down, and food for thought for years. It never quite let me go, it struck a cord, it resonates with my heart strings. My love for Eva is concerningly deep-rooted. Kinda ironic, how one big message is to "move the fuck on!!" :D
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby Arcadia's legacy » Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:16 pm

View Original Postrobersora wrote:^More specifically I wanted NTE to be the same thing NGE was, only better.

A mistake i imagine many MANY Eva fans have made regarding these films
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:22 pm

I feel ya there. Eva has hit some chords for me emotionally as well. The direction they took Q is by far and away everything I've wanted from NTE. Still picking apart everything I'm digging about it.
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby Sachi » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:57 am

I'm on the other side of that coin: Q represents everything I wanted NTE to be, and has actually revitalized my interest in the new films entirely. Though it was not exactly what I was expecting (I don't think anybody could've predicted how sudden and drastic the turn would be), I'm very glad it did what it did. It was successful in capturing the darker tones of the latter episodes of NGE/EOE, amplifying them to an extreme, and then doing something almost completely different with them in the narrative. Visually it is the most beautiful and interesting of the new films, IMO, and it is filled with imagery and emotion that both beckons back to the original as well as stands out on its own as something new and unique. I don't think I'm ever going to remove the post-3I landscape as my phone background ( http://i.imgur.com/SIiekuO.jpg :P ). I thrive off mysterious grimdark Eva, and having more of it is always welcome.
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby skulkidcachi90 » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:44 am

A mistake i imagine many MANY Eva fans have made regarding these films


In my defence I think than Rebuild Evangelion have a lot of great ideas poorly executed
2.0 feel like bland fanservice (the worst rebuild to me) and 3.33 was a disaster (but at least feel like a evangelion movie).
The fact than i not give a damm for Rebuild Shinji or the rest of the cast (with the exception for Rei Q) make me want than Anno and Khara focus in other projects, that is why i enjoy the Animator Expo so much and I am hyped for the new godzilla Movie ( i want to see if Anno still have the touch).

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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby BlueBasilisk » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:06 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:I'm on the other side of that coin: Q represents everything I wanted NTE to be, and has actually revitalized my interest in the new films entirely. Though it was not exactly what I was expecting (I don't think anybody could've predicted how sudden and drastic the turn would be), I'm very glad it did what it did. It was successful in capturing the darker tones of the latter episodes of NGE/EOE, amplifying them to an extreme, and then doing something almost completely different with them in the narrative. Visually it is the most beautiful and interesting of the new films, IMO, and it is filled with imagery and emotion that both beckons back to the original as well as stands out on its own as something new and unique. I don't think I'm ever going to remove the post-3I landscape as my phone background ( http://i.imgur.com/SIiekuO.jpg :P ). I thrive off mysterious grimdark Eva, and having more of it is always welcome.


Right on! My biggest fear going in was that the movies were just going to be the same plot I'd already watched. Or even worse, that they were going to go the manga route and introduce new things but somehow end up at roughly the same conclusion. 3.0 was the movie I didn't even know I wanted. If I had one complaint about the series, it's that 3.0 spent too little time on those new things and too much on Shinji hanging around in the same old places.

That's why I'm so hype for Shin Godzilla too. Anno knows how to take something familiar and make it very exciting.
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:08 pm

The biggest issue I had with 2.22 was the character building between the angel attacks that kind of wandered a bit. Fan-servicy as it was, I think 1.11 and 2.22 spent to much time in the world that we're familiar with from NGE and that's a major reason why I loved Q. It jettisoned us into a new world with the same characters but in different positions. From a narrative standpoint, Q used Shinji's place in all this as the perfect viewer proxy.
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:44 am

I absolutely can't wait until we can watch these four films in one sitting and get the full idea of what Hideaki Anno is going after as a filmmaker. People who don't like the films - justifiably so for their own personal reasons - like to argue that Anno doesn't know what he's doing & that he is just making it all up as he goes along. I completely disagree & feel the storytelling & filmmaking justifies my certainty in that belief. As a filmmaker, I've always, if staunchly, believed that while Anno might not have all the peculiars figured out - i.e. what is Shinji up to in the third film at exactly 43 minutes in - he's always known EXACTLY what he's doing after. And I was always ready for Anno & his team to pull the "rug out from under us". I'm so excited to see how we as fans will be able to view the films in a few years time when we can watch it all as one story instead of chapters separated by years in distress.

1.0 was the perfect warm blanket for the fanbase*. It was literally the TV series, entire scenes & all, given a healthy, expensive facelift with a few flourishes added to heighten the action scenes. You could watch it passively & never fear about what's going to be beyond the next scene because you've already been there. I've said it on this forum before & I believe it, if Anno just wanted to make some simple money & have a rather well-earned victory lap he could have just taken what he did in 1.0 & carry it throughout the films. Just copy & paste the story, beats and images from the TV series from start to finish. Everyone would have paid for it, enjoyed it to some degree & everyone would have made a payday.

2.0 was the perfect catering to the fanbase. Give them what they want! Rei blushing & giving Shinji big doe-eyes. Asuka finally acting the 'tsundere' archetype instead of being misread as such. New environments added on top of the old ones. Bigger action scenes with more visually impressive action scenes. A new girl! Even the apocalyptic ending played up as heroism where Shinji risks it all to save the girl - one of my favorite cases in film of a filmmaker using presentation to bifurcate what the audience feels from what is actually going on - makes the viewer ecstatic! Aside from some of Anno's great writing & asides - I love what is being said in every scene with Kaji - 2.0 doesn't feel like Evangelion anymore but instead starts to feel like the Evangelion presented in the merchandise. Cute girls, robots & all. You ask the average anime viewer what their favorite Eva movie is & I can guarantee most of the time it will be 2.0 & not EOE. It was a bigger hit then 1.0. All they'd have to do is repeat what they did in the second film with the following two movies & they'd make a million.

3.0 is a refusal of giving the general fan what they want. On the surface it's not the Evangelion they know anymore. Where's Tokyo 3? Where's the domestic scenes of Shinji living in an apartment with two hot babes?! Where's the scenes of Misato, Ritsuko & the gang in the command center giving orders as our heroes protect the city? Hell, why isn't Rei making doe eyes at Shinji anymore & how come Asuka isn't blushing at him anymore but actively seems to hate him? It's not the Eva we know.
Except it is.
Anno played the long con on viewers & in my mind it's easily one of the largest narrative gambles I can think of in all franchise filmmaking. What Anno & Co have done is actually natural to the narrative their telling but they've intentionally pushed the gamble to the extreme in ways I can't think of many examples. It's a filmmaker understanding what story they need to tell & taking that risk even though they know there going to alienate a large part of the audience. 3.0 is passionate filmmaking that as we're well aware of brings out PASSIONATE responses. Online & in person I've only come across two reactions to 3.0 - A. "It's the biggest piece of shit ever. Fuck Anno & fuck Eva. I'm done." & B. "I love it. It really worked for me on a profound level!"
Filmmaking is a risky art form. It's so tempting to take the easy path & just placate the viewers by giving them what they want & raking in all the cash & praise. Do the corporate thing. Think Marvel or Star Wars.
Anno knew he shouldn't take the easy path & if his letter announcing his involvement with Godzilla is genuine then he personally suffered for it. That's not the work of a filmmaker making the easy buck but the work of someone who cares.

I just can't wait until we get Final & see what has been Anno's grand endgame for all these years. Whatever it is, the ending of the Eva films is going to be something that all three films have intentionally been building towards for years. It won't please everyone - How could it? Come next year people who saw 1.0 will have been waiting a decade to see how the story ends. - but the viewer that approaches it with an open mind should find themselves having quite the experience.

Okay... un-edited rant done. Back to work. Hopefully the typos & run-on sentences aren't too awful.

*Note when I say fans & fanbase I am not talking about the people on here who passionately care about Evangelion & are willing to debate it for hours on forums but I am instead talking about the majority of people who will see it. They'll watch it, like it (or not), maybe buy some merchandise, choose a favorite character & then forget it for the most part.

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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:29 am

Loved your responses, especially for 2.22 and Q. Hit a lot of my favorite points about those. The narrative curveball that was Q was a gamble, a brave gamble that paid off.
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby Ray » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:36 am

View Original Postxtr00kvltcorex wrote: The narrative curveball that was Q was a gamble, a brave gamble that paid off.



We'll see if it paid off in 4.44/Final. As of right now. . . Well go to the Unfair Eva Reviews Thread.
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby LightDragonman » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:03 am

I still can't help but feel extremely frustrated by all these delays. Godzilla Resurgence may be a good film, but that still doesn't change the fact that thanks to it, this film has been delayed to who knows when, and it has already been so long since any kind of update regarding its status. Just cause he's Anno doesn't automatically give him a free pass for this, especially since he was gonna work on this after sorting out his personal issues, but instead put it off thanks to Shinji Higuchi.

Seriously, by the time this film will have come out, it may have been half a fricken decade, during which I have seen so many other stories and franchises grow and change, while Eva has remained at the same bleak and hopeless state for years. Heck, I myself have grown and changed over the past few years, but Eva and the characters have not. I understand that Anno should take a break to deal with his depression and all that, but that still can't stop me from feeling really ticked at him putting aside the finale for as long as possible while he goes off to do other things. And if the news of Khara's office moving and all that stuff is true, then that means that barely any work has been done on this film while Anno has been filming guys in rubber suits. Which just leaves me feeling really burned out. I'm not even sure that I care about this series anymore, if this stuff keeps happening.

And for the record, I can't say that I feel that 3.33's decision to do what it did regarding the narrative was a good call. While I get it from a thematic perspective, I felt that the characters and story suffered, and so many interesting plot points and character relationships from the previous two films were unceremoniously purely to slap the audience in the face for daring to enjoy what those two movies gave them. It just feels like a sign of contempt for the audience. Heck, I personally can't look at anything regarding Eva now without thinking of it, and how it essentially spat in my fave for liking the way the previous two films were heading in terms of narrative, pretty much killing my enthusiasm for the franchise. And considering that it left Anno in a depression, maybe he himself should've thought twice about what he was doing.

Really, I'm just so burned out and frustrated by the situation, and the fact that Anno seems to get a free pass for everything he does.
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby pwhodges » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:10 am

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:I still can't help but feel extremely frustrated by all these delays.

You're not alone; but...

Just cause he's Anno doesn't automatically give him a free pass for this, especially since he was gonna work on this after sorting out his personal issues, but instead put it off thanks to Shinji Higuchi.

Maybe that's how he's working through his personal issues. But yes, he gets a free pass, in the sense that he's not obliged to finish the series at all; we have no contract with him. It would be a seriously dickish move not to do so, but strictly it's up to him - anything else is our own entitlement talking.

When he's ready, it'll happen. And you wouldn't want the result of his being forced to do it when he's not ready, would you?
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby LightDragonman » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:26 am

He made a commitment to the series, so he does sort of have an obligation to finish it. Obviously not during a depressed time in his life, but not to the point where he puts it off for who knows when.

Heck, the way he's handled this whole thing is also really frustrating to me. He leaves 3.33 on an extremely bitter and depressing cliffhanger, then removes the next film's release date, goes for a whole year without giving any sort of update, and then announces three years after the film was released that the movie still won't be finished for a while because he is off filming a guy in a rubber suit. I'm sorry, but that sort of behavior doesn't get a free pass from me, even if I can understand why he'd want to take a break. Saying something will be ready "when it's done" just feels like an excuse to not work on it and to put it off for as long as possible while you go off to work on other things.

Again, in the five years that it will most likely end up taking for the film to be released, I've seen other franchises expand and grow, have had to deal with personal loss and maturity, and seen the world change and other things that I enjoy grow and change over time. But not this story. Shinji is still in the same pit of despair and hopelessness, along with the rest of the characters, since 2012.

Not to mention that with how long this film has been put off, it will have to end up being nothing short of a masterpiece for it to justify all these delays. If it isn't, then I'm probably gonna swear off watching anything Anno puts out.
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Re: Possibly bad news for Shin?

Postby robersora » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:41 am

Why did it have to be Eva? Because nothing else would have been a sure fire hit to flush enough money to keep Khara afloat financially, while also generating the artistic freedom to go nuts. NTE has morphed into a playground for skilled talent in the animation industry - providing the money due to its big name, to enable the most beautiful form of animation.

I think in Anno's opinion, the more people let go of Eva, the better. So maybe leaving us wallowing in this bitter cliffhanger is the intention.
Kinda fitting for NTE, which artistic aspirations have been decidedly meta all along.
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