If he's actually alive... [Kaji and Misato's relationship]

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Reichu
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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:53 am

I tried thinking of any possible reason why Misato would name her child after someone who, if not an "actual" mass murderer, has nearly the reputation of one. This is the best I could come up with.

Shinji Katsuragi:
Now, when I was a baby, Momma named me after the great Angel War hero, First Boy Shinji Ikari… She said she'd been like a momma to him, too. And, what he did was, he started up this thing called the Third Impact, where he almost killed the planet just so he could save this one girl. Apparently this girl, who was dead to begin with, just stayed dead, and now the place where Momma used to work is a big red desert where nobody can live except a couple of crazy people. Anyway, that’s how I got my name. Shinji Katsuragi. Momma said that the Shinji part was to remind me that sometimes we all do things that, well, just don’t make no sense.


Any which way, Paul, a terrible idea. I'm going to continue to hope for a daughter so she can be automatically spared the trauma of such a terrible name.

View Original PostRay wrote:Funny. Because after 3.0 I honestly (snip)

Ray's gonna Ray.
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Postby pwhodges » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:11 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:I have more respect for Misato than that. :yuck:

ISWYM - but it could be a way showing she really cared, also.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:39 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:ISWYM - but it could be a way showing she really cared, also.

She can show she cares without getting her offspring so personally involved, methinks...
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Postby IfallOnTragedy » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:18 am

"Katsuragi" and Kaji can pull a Kardashian family and name their daughter "KiKo" I think.

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Postby pwhodges » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:23 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:She can show she cares without getting her offspring so personally involved, methinks...

I named my daughter after my dead sister - it's a way some people roll, you know.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:53 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:I named my daughter after my dead sister

You said "ISWYM", but I'm not so sure you did! Was your dead sister somebody who'd been implicated at the center of a catastrophe and was directly or indirectly responsible for thousands of deaths? There's a huge difference between naming somebody after any old loved one and giving them a name that will effectively curse them for life. I don't care how much Misato loves Impact-kun deep down. The reality of the situation means that naming a child "Shinji" -- especially in honor (!!) of the Shinji whom most seem to regard with fear and contempt -- is cruel and irresponsible. I'm going to take the liberty of assuming that Misato is a better person than to so thoughtlessly fuck over her own progeny on account of misplaced sentiment.

IfallOnTragedy: The way Japanese names work, "Ryomi" is a bit more natural (Ryoji + Misato).
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Postby IfallOnTragedy » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:11 am

I agree that naming an offspring after Shinji would be just plain silly. Character related reasons aside, that would mean Anno'd have two characters in the Evangelion franchise with the same name and that just won't do.

Ryomi is a cute name but it doesn't look like it's an actual Japanese name, isn't instead just a meld between their first names, so I think it'd be unlikely. Where I was going was to the fact that Misato and Ryoji don't ever refer to each other by their actual names but their last names (Come to think of it, no one has really bothered to analyse why Misato and Kaji do that, isn't that so?)

Reminds me, how one of my biggest pet peeves is when in fiction they have Kaji calling Misato "Misato", just shows that they weren't paying attention.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:23 am

View Original PostIfallOnTragedy wrote:Ryomi is a cute name but it doesn't look like it's an actual Japanese name

My dictionary has "Ryomi" listed as a name under the kanji 良己. Probably obscure as hell, but still a real name nonetheless. (If they were to, inexplicably, combine their surnames in the manner you suggest, the result would not be Kiko -- where are the "i" and "o" coming from? -- but... "Kaka". :hahaha: )

Them not using their first names with each other implies, to me, a kind of lingering distance in the relationship. In Kaji's final message from episode #21, he does imply that he's never told Misato he loves her, and I'm guessing that the inverse has never happened, either. If the two were to become fully committed and serious, and become 100% comfortable with one another as emotional and not just sexual intimates, I imagine that the "last name only" thing would eventually stop.
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Postby Rei IV » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:33 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:She can show she cares without getting her offspring so personally involved, methinks...

Not to mention that she can think of a more creative name for a her hypothetical offspring. I don't think she'd ever do that, though (call her kid Shinji). Misato's relationship with Shinji, although somewhat paternal, is rather distinct from what it would potentially be if she had an actual child. Still, as with NGE, Misato has always been the surrogate mother to Shin-chan. It's one of the more important, notable dynamics of the show, IMHO.

LOL. Do we need a split?
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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:12 am

View Original PostRei IV wrote:Misato's relationship with Shinji, although somewhat paternal

Does Misato have a secret we don't know about? :devil:

(Hypothetical Kajiragi kid and what it would be named is still topical, methinks?)
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Postby Rei IV » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:51 am

Whoops, I meant to say that there's ALWAYS been a maternal element on Misato's part in regards to her relationship with Shinji ((I was trying to use the word "paternalism" to describe it but it's way more intimate than than that and makes the term in inaccurate). To me, it's one of the important elements in both NGE and the theatrical feature films. I agree it's stupid for Misato to name her hypothetical offspring Shinji but ONLY in the sense there's already a character named Shinji and the two have NOT reconciled with one another for to do something as intimate as naming her child after Shin-chan. Likewise, 14 years have gone by so they clearly MUST have given the kid a name that resonates with both her AND Kaji as he's the father as well.

Shinji being a "mass murder" isn't going to stop that potential "motherly" feeling Misato's always had for Shinji. Sure, she can be angry at his pigheadedness, selfishness self-centrism, continuously running away and wrecking the world once again but, once again, that maternal aspect of hers never really went away (talking about their relationship). Q showed the sympathetic/pitiful look she had when she saw him for the first time in YEARS. There's the ambiguous "Shinji-kun" whisper towards the end of the film and that's saying a lot. Long story short, she doesn't have to name her kid "Shinji" to show those maternal characteristics or how me she really deeply cares for him after ALL this same. Although I can't help feel that was already mentioned in this very thread a while back
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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:40 pm

Rei IV: Fourteen years wouldn't have already past when the kid was born, presumably... Though the memories of Shinji coldly shrugging her off at the apartment and subsequently triggering her PTSD in a huge way would be all the fresher.

(I was confused by your use of "paternal", since that adjective implies that Misato is... er... fatherly??)

...Am I the only one here who thinks pwhodges' suggestion needs no more reason to be considered ill-conceived than the fact that it's painfully stupid for the leader of the counter-Nerv insurgency to call her kid, in essence, "Harbinger of the Apocalypse"? (Mark my words, "Shinji" will become an incredibly unpopular name in the post-3I world. :P )
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Postby Rei IV » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:08 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Rei IV: Am I the only one here who thinks pwhodges' suggestion needs no more reason to be considered ill-conceived than the fact that it's painfully stupid for the leader of the counter-Nerv insurgency to call her kid, in essence, "Harbinger of the Apocalypse"? (Mark my words, "Shinji" will become an incredibly unpopular name in the post-3I world. :P )

No, I share your sentiments......You can also add the fact there is already a boy named Shinji Ikari whose nearly destroyed the world, twice at that, making it illogical for a Misato to name her kid after him. There are other subtle ways to show she still cares for him after all this time, just like you said, don't involve a Shinj II.

:shinjismile:
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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:42 pm

Did Shinji trigger 3I though? or was that simply a lie Kaworu told him
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Postby pwhodges » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:02 pm

Wow, I didn't expect so many reactions to a half-serious musing. EvaGeeks: where nothing is frivolous!

View Original PostArcadia's legacy wrote:Did Shinji trigger 3I though? or was that simply a lie Kaworu told him

It's not just Kaworu, though (even if he did lie about 3I as opposed to N3I), because Wille view him as a trigger from the start - hence the collar.
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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:08 pm

But was he though? We know that Unit-01 was involved in 3I because the FoI have taken it's form, however i'm not so sure if Shinji himself was the trigger and that WILLE could have misinterpreted events
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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:23 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Wow, I didn't expect so many reactions to a half-serious musing.

I honestly thought it was something you'd worked into a fic somewhere and were thus mostly serious about. Then again, the mention WAS lacking the usual obligatory link... :tongue:

Arcadia's Legacy: We don't have the full truth on hand, but that doesn't actually matter. My comments were based on the way that Wille treat him. Those dirty looks were motivated by something, and that same something is why we can probably assume Shinji's name is a generally cursed one when the movie begins. The reality being what it is, it stands to reason that naming someone in Impact-kun's memory is not something that would go appreciated.
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Postby IfallOnTragedy » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:25 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Them not using their first names with each other implies, to me, a kind of lingering distance in the relationship. In Kaji's final message from episode #21, he does imply that he's never told Misato he loves her, and I'm guessing that the inverse has never happened, either. If the two were to become fully committed and serious, and become 100% comfortable with one another as emotional and not just sexual intimates, I imagine that the "last name only" thing would eventually stop.


I very much do not think so. If they were to grow deeper in their relationship I think they still would call each other by their surnames, they've been doing so for years and it's not like they can't refer to each other with their surnames and still be affectionate (when you hear "Kaji-kun" and "Katsuragi" being uttered in serious scenes in video games and stuff you know that is an undisputed fact). Also, it is heavily implied Kaji wishes to be called Kaji and not Ryoji seeing as everyone knows him as Kaji and he doesn't introduce himself as Ryoji. Matter of preference I guess. Maybe he just likes Kaji better or the name Ryoji reminds him of some unpleasant times in his life.

Also, to the implication that Kaji and Misato were only sexually intimate in the show, yes they were scared of deeper commitment but it was obvious they loved and cared for each other.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:48 pm

View Original PostIfallOnTragedy wrote:Also, to the implication that Kaji and Misato were only sexually intimate in the show

No implication. I only said that their emotional intimacy wasn't at its full potential, which is true.

Ritsuko might be on a first name basis with Kaji... She refers to him as "Ryo-chan" in episode #15 while conversing with Misato. I can't think of any instance where she addresses him directly, so maybe she's used that to his face, too?

Not really sure how you're coming to your conclusions, but suffice it to say I disagree with them.
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Postby IfallOnTragedy » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:01 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Ritsuko might be on a first name basis with Kaji... She refers to him as "Ryo-chan" in episode #15 while conversing with Misato. I can't think of any instance where she addresses him directly, so maybe she's used that to his face, too?


It is obvious Ritsuko and Kaji have a unspoken agreement to joke with each other (or maybe joke with Misato?) and call each other by their first name. Kaji calls Ritsuko Ricchan and she calls him Ryocchan, and lets not forget when they first reunited and Ritsuko went along with Kaji's joking teases. Still doesn't point to the fact that Kaji is referred to by anyone with any other name than Kaji, and that he does not use Ryoji for himself.

Regardless I suppose we will see in the last movie, the level of Kaji and Misato's relationships and the names they use for each other. I strongly predict they will continue to use surnames; it is not however an indication of their level of trust.


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