The Creative Principle

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The Creative Principle

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Postby Folk Devil » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:41 am

I figure I might as well make a discussion thread for my fic. A new chapter is coming out very shortly, it's entirely written and peer read I just need to actually type the changes in, rewrite the last scene, and get 'er up there. There isn't really much to talk about yet, but I figure I might as well make the thread now while it would be less disruptive.

To anyone that hasn't read it yet, it's a very OC -involved story, but all of the major (read: POV) ones have already been introduced in the first few chapters. There's gonna be one more POV OC that hasn't had a POV chapter yet, but she's already been introduced in the story, just from another character's perspective. Also, chapters aren't necessarily only told from one POV, that's just how it's panned out so far.

Here's a link to it: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11251079/1/The-Creative-Principle
The Creative Principle: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11251079/1/The-Creative-Principle

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Postby y3k » Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:15 pm

I just wanted to say that, even just four chapters in, I am already enthralled. It’s already up there as one of my favorite post-3I renditions (and might even surpass the rest of the competition if it keeps up). The characters are dead on, and it doesn’t feel like we’ve missed a beat with them and you do an excellent job of getting us to feel what they feel—depression and all (which is no small feat). The writing flows really well.

And the worldbuilding; good lord. I’m a sucker for good worldbuilding, and that’s not something I always get out of Eva fics, so that’s a real treat. You’ve somehow hit a ‘happy’ middle ground between the two extremes of ‘Absolute Apocalypse’ and ‘It’s A Normal Tuesday’, which I rarely see from 3I fanfics. You’d think there would be more, but it’s probably one of those things that are harder than it looks.

So, yeah. Really looking forward to this continuing.

(Also, you’re not allowed to stop now. I neeeeeeed it).

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Postby Folk Devil » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:24 pm

View Original Posty3k wrote:A bunch of nice stuff.


Thanks, man. For the record, world building is one of the things I have the most fun with. I read a LOT of history/alternate history, so I always try to go as realistic as I can for these sorts of things. How would a country react to its entire population disappearing and then slowly reappearing, one at a time? What sort of movements form because of that? Honestly, the hardest part is figuring out places to work it into the narrative naturally. One day when this story is done (in like 5 years from now) I'm going to release a companion thing that is basically a history textbook to lore dump. I wish I was decent at graphic design, because I think a map would be very beneficial to sort of visualize what the world looks like.

Thematically, I'm trying to present a world that on the surface looks like it did quite well considering the circumstances, but under the surface is dysfunctional. Something mirrored in certain characters.
The Creative Principle: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11251079/1/The-Creative-Principle

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Postby y3k » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:14 am

A map's not super difficult. As long as you have a basic paint program and a template, you can go to town with little to no skills. Might not look the prettiest, but your audience'll get the idea. Like, I'll easily admit I have no skills in graphic design and have only worked with MS Paint (and a small smattering of gimp), but I've still drawn up tons of maps over the years.

Considering what you've told me, I'm going to assume you know about the blank map archive on the alternate history wiki. I won't completely swear to it, but there's probably at least one or two maps on there that have a higher sea level. And if not, I'm sure SOMEONE on the forums could make one for you.

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Postby Folk Devil » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:24 am

View Original Posty3k wrote:A map's not super difficult. As long as you have a basic paint program and a template, you can go to town with little to no skills. Might not look the prettiest, but your audience'll get the idea. Like, I'll easily admit I have no skills in graphic design and have only worked with MS Paint (and a small smattering of gimp), but I've still drawn up tons of maps over the years.

Considering what you've told me, I'm going to assume you know about the blank map archive on the alternate history wiki. I won't completely swear to it, but there's probably at least one or two maps on there that have a higher sea level. And if not, I'm sure SOMEONE on the forums could make one for you.


True, but on second thought I could contradict myself. Better to leave it vague, at least till it's done.
The Creative Principle: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11251079/1/The-Creative-Principle

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Postby y3k » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:57 am

Fair enough. I mean, I'm not trying to push you into it RIGHT THIS MOMENT. Just, y'know, something to think about down the line if you do the lore dump.

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Postby Folk Devil » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:07 am

You know what I do need RIGHT THIS MOMENT? A new chapter.

CHAPTER 5 - DIATHEKE

Editing courtesy of Glor.
The Creative Principle: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11251079/1/The-Creative-Principle

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Postby Glor » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:01 pm

I'm just waiting for this part of the story:

SPOILER: Show
Image
Rite of Reclamation - an Evangelion/Halo fusion, check it out, is pretty neat.

"Anything can be Evangelion related if you have the will to twist it." -Joseki.

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Postby xanderkh » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:03 pm

Ugh, that last chapter really hit hard, especially towards Shinji's and Asuka's relationship. Hopefully, Shinji can move on with this trial, and simultaneously his pain of the past, and both Asuka and he can mend what little friendship they have.

I pray that this doesn't turn out like "Throne of Bayonets", where it's just a hollow shell of a friendship, just to cope for the sake of coping, or that they just part ways for good because it would be "easier". :sniffle:
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Postby Glor » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:34 pm

^I don't think it will end up like ToB. I mean, in this chapter we see that Asuka and Shinji haven't stopped piling the hurt on each other since coming out of the Sea of LCL, but they've managed to work through it. In some of the worst ways possible. But they're content with the knowledge that they're so fucked up, no one else could possibly love them. I think that was a line from the first chapter, or something like it.

Besides, they've piloted the Evas together. There's a pretty sacred bond in that. No other partner they could find would ever understand those experiences the same way.
Rite of Reclamation - an Evangelion/Halo fusion, check it out, is pretty neat.

"Anything can be Evangelion related if you have the will to twist it." -Joseki.

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Postby y3k » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:09 am

Yeah, I agree with Glor, this fic’s starting at a much higher point relationship-wise between the two. There’s already a rock-solid base established between them. To pull off a breakup, you’d need to somehow ruin all that and why bother in fighting upstream like that just to end in a darkfic where they’d off themselves anyway because they’re still codependent? A tragedy has to have an element of irony or ‘could have been’, so to try and pull it off where the two are already at rock bottom but tied together just seems needlessly cruel…and sloppy.

Besides, as we’ve seen, despite how angry they get at each other in this chapter, there’s still an underlying core of empathy and love between the two. And from what’s been alluded to in prior chapters? This is probably just (an admittedly more severe version of) a repeat of something that happens on a monthly basis. Minus cup-throwing, that is. And from what we’ve gotten from the flashbacks, this is friggin’ *mild* compared to what they were up to a few years ago.

I mean, they’ve got a suicide pact for crying out loud. They aren’t leaving each other. They can’t. They're psychologically incapable.

Which, I need to talk about that for a second, because haha, holy crap. The fact that they have a goddamn suicide pact is both incredibly (and strangely) heartwarming and incredibly twisted at the same time, and I love it. And the fact that it’s all wrapped up in something Asuka said which echoes back to what her mom said to the doll, and is almost certainly an irony that’s lost on Asuka?

You’re a goddamn monster. Bravo.

Also kind of love that you’ve spent both this chapter and chapter three just pushing each of them through their own gauntlet of horrors and issues. And you did it fairly organically too, like, there’s so many problems there one could easily get lost trying to juggle them all—from the large ones like angel nightmares and Shinji’s actions, to the smaller and more easily overlooked ones like Asuka’s slowly eroding sense of self-esteem in a country that hates them, or Shinji’s anger bursts. So yeah, great job introducing all that while still making it seem like a very organic spiral downward for both of them.

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Postby Iuvenal » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:00 am

SPOILER: Show
Brutal, but well done. My undigested thoughts:

Somebody needs to make a WWF-style belt for Asuka because she's the undisputed heavyweight world champ of twisting the knife, damn. Sin darkening the intellect and weakening the will has really given her a great talent for turning the endless supply of shit that can be thrown in Shinji's face into zingers!

Though I think the comparison to his father would have had a better effect if implied than stated explicitly.

The chapter title was well chosen.

I'm seeing shades of both "The Lighthouse" and "In the Dark Room".

Was the scene transition between the house scene and the second camp scene meant to be abrupt/un-demarcated?

If it weren't a flashback scene, I'd be worried about Shinji surviving the night after the second camp scene. He had suicidal thoughts earlier in the day and is now faced with Asuka appearing to renege on both the formal and informal aspects of the bond they cemented the night before, he made an enemy today in Kentaro that didn't seem especially keen on following Asagiri's rules re: not murdering him and left himself in a spot where is vulnerable and can be offed inconspicuously, and his sleeping arrangement seems like a recipe for pneumonia.

I liked the repetition of themes from the series, and I thought most of them were pretty well woven in, though IMO it would have been better not to Conspicuously Name the rage inside Shinji.

Clever how Asuka and Shinji shared a wasted week - they didn't spend the time the same way, but I still wonder whether they're channeling their former guardians.

Shinji seems like what he needs above all else is absolution, but there's nobody who has the authority to give it to him. I can't put my finger on what Asuka needs to ameliorate her situation.
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Postby Folk Devil » Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:40 pm

Yeah, the Lighthouse was a major inspiration. There's something about addictions that fits these characters so well, they're coping exactly the same way as Misato did with alcohol. Heroin, though, I think is a bit much. I could never see Shinji getting involved in any serious drug subculture, he's too timid. So he lies to himself that he's not actually addicted, because he's doing "legitimate" drugs that were "legitimately" prescribed to him. The most insidious part (and the main reason why I chose a prescription drug addiction) is that Shinji and Asuka really SHOULD be on some sort of anti-anxiety medication/ anti-depressants, but in a controlled, closely supervised sort of way.


As for the non-demarcated transition, that was just a screw up on my part. Fixing now.
The Creative Principle: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11251079/1/The-Creative-Principle

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Postby Folk Devil » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:23 pm

At long last I can finally say that the next chapter (really 2 chapters) is done and submitted for editing. I'd say another week and a half til it's out. That's the good news.

Bad news is it's an OC chapter. SORRY (not sorry).
The Creative Principle: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11251079/1/The-Creative-Principle

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Postby Glor » Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:17 am

Don't ever be sorry for OCs. Asuka and Shinji will never have as much depth as Darkstar. Eva would be nothing without him.
Rite of Reclamation - an Evangelion/Halo fusion, check it out, is pretty neat.

"Anything can be Evangelion related if you have the will to twist it." -Joseki.

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Postby Iuvenal » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:41 am

*engages bass voice* ~anticipaaaaaaaation~
Pkunk's not dead! Shake yer Rootz!

I carved A +S forever into my left buttock with a pocket knife. My right buttock is dominated by a tattoo of James Brown. - Chuckman

Who did 9/11? The FAR. - Reichu

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Postby Iuvenal » Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:57 pm

Heyyyyyy FD, how are your editors doooooooing...
Pkunk's not dead! Shake yer Rootz!

I carved A +S forever into my left buttock with a pocket knife. My right buttock is dominated by a tattoo of James Brown. - Chuckman

Who did 9/11? The FAR. - Reichu

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Postby Folk Devil » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:09 pm

Beta is done the first pass but I've run into end of semester stuff I gotta do first. It'll be out soon enough, maybe this weekend.
The Creative Principle: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11251079/1/The-Creative-Principle

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Postby NemZ » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:55 pm

I'll get around to reading this eventually. probably.
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Postby Folk Devil » Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:05 am

Question: should I just release the first part of the chapter now? It's done and edited, the second part needs more work though.

I'll see what the consensus is in a few hours.


EDIT:

Screw it. Nobody's gonna say no. New (half) chapter's out.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11251079/6 ... -Principle
The Creative Principle: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11251079/1/The-Creative-Principle


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