Who's most to blame for 3rd Impact?

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Who's most to blame for 3rd Impact?

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Postby LordThaeon » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:19 am

It's pretty clear that everyone in the cast screwed up to a great degree. These screw-ups all culminated in the event known as Third Impact.

But whose most at blame? Whose the most ethically and morally culpable for the practical extinction of humanity (whether humanity comes out of the orange juice sea isn't clear though hope appears to be bleak).

Let's look over the candidates:

Seele - Created the MP evas, engineered 2nd Impact and plotted the Instrumentality Project to become god-like beings who control Third Impact (if supplemental material is to be believed).

Gendo - Worked with Seele, created Nerv so that he could manipulate the organization into eliminating the evolutionary competition, wanted to hijack Third Impact to reunite with Yui regardless of the consequences for humanity.

Yui - Worked with Seele, knowingly and willingly entered Unit 01 as part of her own plans, evidently wanted to become immortal through Unit 01 regardless of the cost for her family and humanity.

Misato - Despite gaining growing evidence of Gendo's intentions, she never acted against him or called him out on any of his bs. Evidently, she never even considered putting a bullet through his skull after learning that he orchestrated Second Impact (which led to the deaths of billions and her own father) She also failed as a guardian for Shinji and Asuka which didn't have pretty results.

Rei - Despite gaining autonomy and "rebelling" against Gendo, she still becomes GNR anyway and basically mind-rapes Shinji to get him to start Third Impact.

Shinji - Self-evident, but in short, he is the one who ultimately pressed the "Death to all humans" button. True, he rejects Instrumentality and kills GNR, but humanity may still be tangified...so...yeah...
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Postby Bagheera » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:24 am

Seele, obviously. They put this whole mess in motion, and Gendo and Yui just rolled with what they sent their way. Misato had no fucking clue what was going on until Kaji clued her in, and then she actively undermined her superiors at every turn. Shinji didn't press any buttons -- he just answered Lilith's questions and she pressed the buttons for him. In her defense, though, the fact that she's a Seed of Life might have forced her hand in that regard.

So yeah, Seele.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:19 am

Seele, no contest.
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:44 am

Definitely Seele. If not for them, Adam and Lilith would still be sleeping peacefully in their Moons, Second and Third Impacts would not have happened, and the Evas would never have been created.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:55 am

I concur that Seele's responsible for this mess. No Seele, no show. Game over.

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Postby Rei IV » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:49 pm

Seele but I'm also going to lay the blame on Rei/Lilith and Shinji.
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Postby Lavinius » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:51 am

F.D.R..

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Postby Cosmo11 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:05 am

Rei and Seele

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Postby IronEvangelion » Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:55 pm

SEELE and Stalin (Come on, Red Earth Purification Ceremony? I know you had something to do with this whole conspiracy, Stalin.)

Although, there is the whole thing about how the Angels would have come back to earth and started an impact with Adam anyhow if SEELE hadn't caused Second Impact...
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Postby CyberXIII » Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:47 am

SEELE, definitely. This whole mess started because of what they did to Adam and later Yui.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:00 am

Seele, its incredibly obvious that without these douchebags eva would have never happened.
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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:46 am

Seele.

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Postby bombchu » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:59 pm

Gendo and Seele. I guess I'm not inclined to blame Shinji, because, really, HIP was never his intention. Not sure where I stand on Rei's involvement. EoE was an understandably... difficult time for interpreting her character.
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Postby Trajan » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:51 am

This looks like a pretty open and shut case. Without Seele, none of the events depicted in the series would have ever occurred. They're the architects of the whole mess; without them, Gendo, Yui, Shinji and everyone else never would have been put in the positions they were in. In the end, everything more or less transpired according to Seele's design.
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Re: Who's most to blame for 3rd Impact?

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Postby SEELE » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:40 pm

View Original PostLordThaeon wrote:Seele - Created the MP evas, engineered 2nd Impact and plotted the Instrumentality Project to become god-like beings who control Third Impact (if supplemental material is to be believed).


Obviously, me. Who would've thought that? :devil:

Lets just look from this perspective. The Lilin are the last Angel. And SEELE (so me) told Gendo that he will recieve the immediate death. So what does this tell us about humans? They are more successful in destroying themselfs than Angels in general. This is also a prominent theme in NGE - self-harm. SEELE is the conspirative cabal - everything is wrong with the world. Nobody is to blame other than SEELE because they were acting on a self-fullfilling prophecy. SEELE is ultimatly anti-individualistic and therefore shit.
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Re: Who's most to blame for 3rd Impact?

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Postby Sachi » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:48 pm

View Original PostSEELE wrote:Lets just look from this perspective. The Lilin are the last Angel. And SEELE (so me) told Gendo that he will recieve the immediate death. So what does this tell us about humans? They are more successful in destroying themselfs than Angels in general. This is also a prominent theme in NGE - self-harm. SEELE is the conspirative cabal - everything is wrong with the world. Nobody is to blame other than SEELE because they were acting on a self-fullfilling prophecy. SEELE is ultimatly anti-individualistic and therefore shit.

That's a wonderful way to put it. I hadn't really considered the self-harm factor Seele represented for humanity's collective conscious. Also, I'm glad you've come forward and accepted responsibility for your crimes. :thumbsup:
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Postby NemZ » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:49 pm

Seele may have been the driving force that actually made it happen, but Gendo/Rei or Yui would have made their move soon anyway. Shinji's the guy who said yes, but with whatever anti-ATF schenangins was going on it probably would have driven anyone nuts in that situation too, so I give him a pass for that choice.

Really though the ultimate blame needs to be laid on the FAR for screwing up and putting two seeds on the same planet in the first place. At that point it was inevitable someone would eventually trigger another impact or two even without Seele's influence.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:44 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Really though the ultimate blame needs to be laid on the FAR for screwing up and putting two seeds on the same planet in the first place.

Since we know absolutely nothing about how the Moons navigated to their target worlds and why Lilith ended up crash-landing on an occupied one, blaming the FAR seems a bit presumptuous. Might as well just blame them for everything and anything in NGE while you're ahead.

Why is Shinji a spineless wimp? Because of the FAR.
Why is Asuka an insufferable bitch? Because of the FAR.
Why are Seele a bunch of self-righteous assholes? Because of the FAR.
Who murdered Kaji? The FAR.
Who raped Ritsuko? The FAR.
Who slipped a noose to Kyoko? The FAR.
Who did 9/11? The FAR.

Actually, this gives me a thought... What if we've been wrong all this time? What if the one who's actually to blame for Third Impact is none other than Sarai?!

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:05 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Really though the ultimate blame needs to be laid on the FAR for screwing up and putting two seeds on the same planet in the first place. At that point it was inevitable someone would eventually trigger another impact or two even without Seele's influence.


Can you imagine being the poor schlub who has to explain that foul-up to his boss? "Er, yeah, about that fire-and-forget plan we had for saving our species . . . a funny thing happened when selecting the target planets, heh heh . . . "

But yeah, one little mistake . . . :rolleyes:
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Postby Rei IV » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:24 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Really though the ultimate blame needs to be laid on the FAR for screwing up and putting two seeds on the same planet in the first place. At that point it was inevitable someone would eventually trigger another impact or two even without Seele's influence.

More like they should've been more careful were they were going to send Lilith to as Earth was Adam's domain to begin with.
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