Evageeks' Video Game Design Tenets

Discussions about non-Evangelion related video games, board games, card games and gaming in general.

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Stryker
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Evageeks' Video Game Design Tenets

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Postby Stryker » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:11 am

We all have our own opinions on games, and game design. While we ourselves are not game designers (with the exception of one in training), I am sure that we all have set principles and values of what make games good, things that we use in order to judge whether or not a game is good, and understand why the lifespan of a game went a particular way.

This topic is for the illustration of these principles we have on game design. It was inspired by this statement by NemZ:

SPOILER: Show
View Original PostNemZ wrote:Backtracking done right... a few rules,

1) The game needs hub clusters connected by simple paths or warp gates, but preferably in such a way that their 'hubness' isn't painfully obvious. They should also be visual set pieces to give players an easy landmark to notice. A single hub is far too obvious, too many and the map will be overly confusing. The best hubs are places the player will enter and exit from multiple crossing patterns, some of which won't be at all obvious the first time they pass through such they won't even realize it was a hub until they loop back.

2) Progress should largely consist in opening up new themed areas that reqiure the use of recently aquired skills (not just to enter, but also to navigate) and award a new one upon completion. these should generally be designed as loops that start near a hub and end up with easy access back to the same hub or a different one.

3) New areas should be blocked by 'gates' of some sort. These gates should be tantalizingly placed along the route to somewhere else so that players will remember them and be able to get there again with little hassle, not off in some distant corner. Also the gate should always be at the start of the new area, not at the end of a hallway somewhat into it so that it forms a time-wasting dead end.

4) Intentional dead ends should always have a powerup of some sort in them, even if just a minor one. Exploration must always be rewarded. Often this is a good place for a challenge... the sort of thing one wants to do once and then not need to ever worry about again. It shouldn't be possible to reach a challenge until you already have the tools to overcome it.

5) Things that are hidden should be along main routes so that players have multiple chances to notice it. Putting secret rooms off in places you'd otherwise never need to go again is lame unless there's also a warp zone or something (say, as part of a loop mechanism ending a 'stage') nearby to get in and out fairly quickly if it was missed the first time around.

6) Sequence breaking should be enabled and intended... but not in such a way that it robs the players of the feeling that they're getting away with something. This means rewarding non-obvious skill usage, not hiding secret paths or creating otherwise useless areas just to make such tricks possible. It isn't at all a bad thing for the normal sequence to have areas that can be solved in variable orders either, as that gives more feeling of agency even in an initial playthrough.


So I wanted to make a place where we can share these thoughts. If you have your own tenets, post them here, and I will put them up on the first page within spoilers, and a quote.

Stryker's theories on successful competitive games  SPOILER: Show


It should be stated that, first and foremost, these theories work in conjunction, and not (necessarily) alone. It should also be stated these cases are, generally, accurate.

0. In consideration to the new era of Esports, if what is considered competitive play is clearly defined by the game, the more likely it is to be played competitively.

1. The more clearly defined the rules are, the more likely the game will be played competitively.

2. The fewer the players needed in order to play what is considered a competitive game, the more likely it is that the game will be played competitively.

3. If the amount of mechanics that are decided by "dice roll" are sparse, the more likely the game will be played competitively.

3a. If the game's primary premise surrounds randomness, or chance (such as card games), then it is not affected by this theory.

3b. This principle considers that there is no distinction between "dice roll" and extreme complexity to the point where one cannot accurately, and consistently predict the result of one's "essential" actions (this is why games such as ARMA are not played competitively).

4. Asymmetrical gameplay will not inherently impede on competitiveness, provided that all factions are balanced in all forms (including environment balance, faction characteristic balance, etc.), and that it is reasonably possible that players can be proficient in playing either side (if the game requires it).

More to be added, eventually.
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Postby Squigsquasher » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:43 am

This is a cool idea for a thread. Lemme join in...

I'm not sure this is the right place for it, but one thing I always thought would be cool for an FPS type game would be for voicechat to be implemented realistically- so instead of being broadcast to everyone in the whole game, if a player says something via mic then it is in effect "said" by their character and can only be heard by people that would actually be able to hear the character speaking. Thus, an element of tactics would be introduced to using voicechat, including making sure the enemy doesn't hear you giving away your position, being careful that lines of communication aren't cut, etc. Perhaps for added depth you could introduce a radio system that would allow people to communicate instantaneously, but was prone to being jammed by ECM, or worse, being intercepted by the enemy.
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Stryker
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Postby Stryker » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:13 am

We've got that. It isn't exactly what you said, but I think it is as close as you can get while not obstructing on quality

I've got another.

Potential relation between 'fun' and 'meta'  SPOILER: Show
The enjoyment the general userbase has with some, or most games is inversely proportional to how developed the meta becomes.

This is why some games are more fun when they first come out as opposed to a couple of months later.
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"Life is becoming more and more indistinguishable from Onion articles." ~Monk Ed
"Oh my gods, that is awesome. I am inclined to forgive both Grant and the dub in general for that." ~Bagheera
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NemZ
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Postby NemZ » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:51 am

I was rather proud of that post. :D

Hmm... will have to see if anything else comes to mind. I like this thread!
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Postby IronEvangelion » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:35 pm

For me, one of the most important things is level design or world design. The levels or world need to be interesting, thoughtfully laid out, and able to convey and compliment the game's atmosphere. Not all games need to be open-world, even corridor-based level design works well when it's done right. But if you do go that route, you really need to step it up in other areas of the game in order to keep the player interested. For example, FFXIII was not bad simply because its levels were mostly corridors. In fact there were two other corridor-based FF games that were actually very good, namely FFX and Crisis Core. The reason FFXIII was bad was they dropped the ball in the story, characterization, and battle system design as well, which was compounded by the game's linearity. FFXIII also had numerous points of no return, which is a big no-no in an RPG. Now in Lightning Returns, the story was pretty bad, even worse than FFXIII. However the weakness of the story was offset by the engaging open-world design, exciting and fun battle system, and the much deeper level of interaction with the world and its inhabitants. LR also nailed the atmosphere, with the world conveying a sense of slow death and impending doom that complimented the plot nicely.

Levels should never be bland or repetitive regardless of whether you're going open-world or corridor-based with the design. One of the worst offenders I've seen in this area is Metal Gear Solid 2. 90% of the game takes place in a double-ring of 12 hexagonal rooms connected by walkways. It doesn't help that everything is either matte gray or a vomit-inducing shade of matte orange. The interiors of the rooms are generic and uninspiring as well, and I never felt excited about getting to a new area like I did in MGS1 and MGS3. The reason I avoid playing the Plant chapter of 2 these days isn't the story. It isn't Raiden either. It's the Big Shell itself! Care should also be taken when choosing the color pallet for a level. Regardless of how good the game is, I couldn't finish Metroid Prime 2 because the color scheme in the dark world literally made me sick to my stomach if I stayed there too long.

Good character design is crucial to my enjoyment of a game. I usually will not play a game if I don't like the character design or art style. I can't stand roided-up musclemen, super-deformed, or chibi. Generic LOTR-esque high fantasy turns me off as well simply because of how overused it is. Some games I think have bad character design/art style: Gears of War series, Mortal Kombat series, Kingdom Hearts Chi, Vexx, Everquest series, Minecraft, most indie games. Now some games i think have good character design/art style: Metal Gear Solid series, Star Ocean 1-3, most Kingdom Hearts games, Blazblue series, Guilty Gear series, Golden Sun series, Assassin's Creed series, Dead or Alive 5. Of course this is very subjective and will differ from person to person.

A game's battle system should always help the player and never hinder them. In some games the battle system is so poorly designed that it becomes an active hindrance to the player's progress. Examples: Magna Carta: Tears of Blood (command inputs in a turn-based system should never be dependent on QTEs), Final Fantasy XIII (In a game with revival items, the party leader's death should never trigger a game over screen. The party leader should also be switchable at all times.), Kingdom Hearts Re: Chain Of Memories (Card-based battle systems DO NOT work well in real time battles! It was also needlessly complex.)

Story is not the end-all, be-all of game design that some people claim it to be. A game can have a terrible story and still be great (see Saints' Row 4, Lightning Returns, Final Fantasy X-2, the Ninja Gaiden series, and literally every fighting game ever made.) However if your story is lackluster, you NEED to make the other areas of the game stronger to compensate for it.

These days, a good deal of effort should always be put into making the game look presentable. I have a great deal of tolerance as far as graphics go, but I cannot stand 8-bit 2D graphics or PS1/N64-era 3D graphics. No, it won't stop me from playing or enjoying games from those eras, but it does bug me. And for the record, polygon-based graphics are not an evolution of sprite-based graphics. They are two separate mediums. I hate it when someone says a game is bad because it isn't 3D. That's like saying the Mona Lisa is bad because it isn't a sculpture. If enough effort is put into it, a modern sprite-based game can look every bit as good as a modern polygon-based game. If anyone wants examples, I'll happily point them in the direction of the Blazblue and Guilty Gear series. So developers, please put some effort into it. You don't have to make every game look like a AAA game or anything like that, but please stop spamming the Minecrafts and the HURR HURR RETRO 8-bit shovelware.
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Postby Stryker » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:00 pm

IronEvangelion, I would put your post on the wall of tenets, but I would do it in a bulleted form, and I don't want to simplify your thoughts.

I wrote a journal thing about what should be included in a game, as well as rules of development type stuff. Looking back at it now, there are a lot of things I disagree with, but these are the things I agree with.

SPOILER: Show
1. Fully customizable sensitivity
1a. Standard sensitivity (should include separate values for x-coordinate and y-coordinate)
1b. ADS (aim-down-sight) sensitivity
1c. Auto-aim sensitivity (if it is for consoles)
1d. Options can be overwhelming, so provide basic, intermediate, and advanced option menus.

2. Listen to consumers (within reason)
2a. "too many chefs ruin the soup," or something

3. Specialize development departments

4. ADS
4a. ADS does not improve the precision of the weapon, but the accuracy of the user.

5. Cover systems
5a. It is difficult to judge whether or not you are effectively protected in cover from first-person perspective, so a cover system of some sort should be utilized.
5b. ARMA 3 stance system works as well.

6. There is no problem with complex or simple mechanics or systems, provided they make sense.
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The Moats of Quotes
"Life is becoming more and more indistinguishable from Onion articles." ~Monk Ed
"Oh my gods, that is awesome. I am inclined to forgive both Grant and the dub in general for that." ~Bagheera
"I don't try to engage in intelligent conversation here anymore."~Chee
"Look, if loving a clone of your mom is wrong, I don't wanna be right." ~Chuckman

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NemZ
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Postby NemZ » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:09 pm

Okay, I have a new topic: Powerups and Progression. Specifically I want to look at a few classic game series and use them as the basis for different formats showing how the two concepts are linked (or not). I contend that most games in the action/adventure/rpg spectrum can be classified as being just a variation on these primary themes.

Each is labeled by genre and with a shorthand for the typical repeating game structure:
E=explore (nonlinear path)
S=stage (linear path)
P=powerup (meaningful new ability, not just more health/ammo/stats)
B=boss enemy
{}=infrequent additional step

SPOILER: Show
Mario: Action - S{E}{B}
Powerups last only until injury, death, or replaced by a different powerup but can be frequently reacquired. These powerups can be a new movement ability, a new attack, or both. Gameplay involves linear stages that host many secret but largely pointless areas (save for %completion goals), though infrequently stages do have secondary exists to find, often requiring use of certain locally available powerups. Bosses are infrequent and act as gates to the next set of stages, but defeating them grants no new abilities. Some titles in the series use a 'world map', but looked at abstractly the games with this feature are generally just as linear (though with shortcuts) as those without, and additional side areas tend to be simply ways to get minor bonuses rather than compelling new content.

Mega Man: Action - SBP{SB}
Powerups are permanent upgrades granted after beating bosses, generally in the form of new attacks but often granting new movement abilities or serve to activate optional new areas. Gameplay takes place in linear stages with little or no side paths the early stages can be attempted in any order, adding some nonlinearity without exploration. The final stages are only accessible once all prior ones are complete so these powerups do act as a sort of key mechanism, and frequently the later stages have challenges that require powerup use to overcome, but the bosses of these stages do not grant new powerups. Later games in the series added slightly more exploration elements and backtracking, and in some rare cases linked the stages into a larger world while keeping them still generally linear and free of a need for any backtracking.

Zelda: Action-Adventure - EPB
Powerups are permanent and are found in closed dungeon areas within a larger increasingly open world. Most are tools with both combat and exploration functions. New powerups are the key to defeating bosses, reaching certain (usually optional) upgrades, and in the latter titles act as keys for a bypassing a few overworld exploration barriers. Gameplay leads to themed geographic areas and self-encapsulated dungeons below them, with both types often only needed to visit once though they can be revisited if you missed something along the way.

Metroid: Action-Adventure - EP{EB} or EPEBP
Powerups are permanent and are found through exploration of an increasingly open world. Most are tools with both combat and exploration functions. New powerups are the key to reaching new areas to find more powerups. Gameplay leads through varied geographic locations which are frequently backtracked through. In the earliest games bosses are only worth killing for plot coupons or upgrades to ammo/health, but the later entries tend to make them guardians of the next important powerup (with some ability to sequence break around them entirely), though generally there are still other powerups that need to be found between such challenges that are not guarded in this fashion.

Diablo:Action-RPG - E{E}{B}
Powerups largely don't exist though improvements to existing gear/attributes/whatever can be found frequently, and though none are individually necessary progression is reliant upon continuing to improve. Gameplay leads through randomly generated areas that require some exploration to navigate and fairly frequently lead to totally option side paths. After enough quests are complete the path will eventually lead to a boss and then to the next hub/town zone.

Fallout: Action-Adventure-RPG - E{B}
Powerups largely don't exist, but gear/levels/skills/perks/whatever do. Gameplay leads through a main quest line to be followed in order with some variable options and multiple endings, but this is largely overshadowed by a vast framework of completely optional quests in an almost entirely open world. Most enemies scale with player level so they can be completed in any order, and even the main quest can often be tackled at low levels if a player so desires. Boss enemies that are more than just a named typical enemy are rather infrequent, and even then are generally just a much bigger version of something you've killed dozens of times before with inflated stats.

Final Fantasy: RPG - SB{EB}
Powerups largely don't exist, save perhaps accessing the eventual airship in most games. New gear, characters, item and spells can be found or purchased and these make surviving the trip far easier, as can grinding for XP levels, but you really never get the ability to DO anything new. Gameplay is a fairly straightforward story-driven affair through overworld and dungeons (though in some cases the overworld is largely just a glorified loading screen) with some useful but not strictly necessary things laying or occasionally hidden along the way leading through a predefined sequence of travel with little need for backtracking. Some optional side areas and challenge bosses exist, though frequently intended only for completion once the main game is completed or very nearly so.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
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