If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

Ray
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 6384
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:42 am

View Original PostStrokeMeGoat wrote:Hey hey, they're 28 now, remember? They just look 14. That means it's... uh... okay?

:mayano:
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Lennik
Tunniel
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 180
Joined: Apr 18, 2013
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lennik » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:03 pm

View Original PostStrokeMeGoat wrote:Hey hey, they're 28 now, remember? They just look 14. That means it's... uh... okay?


They look 14 and have the brain development of someone who's 14.

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 9894
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:37 pm

View Original PostLennik wrote:They look 14 and have the brain development of someone who's 14.

Their brains may be physically stunted at the age of 14, but they do have the experiences and memories of 28 year olds. Can you imagine an extra 14 years of puberty with a teenage brain still pumping out those middle school hormones? Yikes.
"Chaos is merely a human construct. The world only knows its own natural law of harmony and order."
"So you are saying it's the human heart that throws the world into confusion."

Lennik
Tunniel
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 180
Joined: Apr 18, 2013
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lennik » Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:19 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:Their brains may be physically stunted at the age of 14, but they do have the experiences and memories of 28 year olds. Can you imagine an extra 14 years of puberty with a teenage brain still pumping out those middle school hormones? Yikes.


I imagine that would cause some pretty unpleasant mental issues, in addition to the issues they're already saddled with, being Eva pilots. "Curse" of Eva indeed.

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:20 pm

View Original PostLennik wrote:They look 14 and have the brain development of someone who's 14.


Though of course we don't know that. Literally all we know about the "curse of Eva" is that it appears to have left Asuka with the body of a 14-year-old. That's it. Everything else -- up to and including the notion that her brain development is stuck in puberty -- is something fans made up and tacked on to the idea.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Lennik
Tunniel
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 180
Joined: Apr 18, 2013
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lennik » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:33 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Though of course we don't know that. Literally all we know about the "curse of Eva" is that it appears to have left Asuka with the body of a 14-year-old. That's it. Everything else -- up to and including the notion that her brain development is stuck in puberty -- is something fans made up and tacked on to the idea.


Well it's really just the next logical conclusion. Until there's a line in the next movie or there's some word from Anno that their brains kept developing past that point for whatever reason, I would argue that her brain having aged mentally to 28, independent of her body, is the thing fans made up. I don't remember any line in the movie that indicates the pilots are now "mentally 28," although I could be wrong. So until there's some line of dialogue that flat out tells us their brains kept developing, I'm inclined to believe their brains are just in the same situation as the rest of their bodies.

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:22 pm

View Original PostLennik wrote:Well it's really just the next logical conclusion. Until there's a line in the next movie or there's some word from Anno that their brains kept developing past that point for whatever reason, I would argue that her brain having aged mentally to 28, independent of her body, is the thing fans made up. I don't remember any line in the movie that indicates the pilots are now "mentally 28," although I could be wrong. So until there's some line of dialogue that flat out tells us their brains kept developing, I'm inclined to believe their brains are just in the same situation as the rest of their bodies.


Which is something we don't know, which was my point. I mean, the whole concept of physical development in a person just stopping is nonsensical on its face -- do their cells stop dividing? Do they stop forming neural connections, and thus stop forming new memories? Do they stop healing wounds? Do their hormones just stop working? Do they stop digesting food? If the answer to those or related questions is "no" the whole bodies-stuck-in-stasis thing is misleading at best.

Here's another wrinkle no one seems to have considered: the entire point of the hormonal soup we experience as teenagers is to change our bodies. That is literally the only purpose those hormones serve. if Asuka and Mari have become stuck in stasis somehow that means one of two things has likely happened: either their bodies are no longer producing those hormones in the quantities needed to effect change, or their bodies have been rendered immune to those effects. Either way the unpleasantness of being a teenager would be largely gone. With their brains (presumably) still recording memories and such those two would become very alien beings: old souls trapped in young bodies that no longer remember how to be young and do not know how to become old. I don't know what such a person would be, but a perpetual teenager ain't it.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

BlueBasilisk
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 1158
Joined: Nov 14, 2010
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby BlueBasilisk » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:56 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:With their brains (presumably) still recording memories and such those two would become very alien beings: old souls trapped in young bodies that no longer remember how to be young and do not know how to become old. I don't know what such a person would be, but a perpetual teenager ain't it.


Rei and Kaworu? :lol:

I think there's a lot more to the Curse of Eva than simple biological stasis. When you compare Gendo's comments on the burdens of humanity with the Children's agelessness and ability to go where the Lilin can't, it seems like they've been purified of the FoK's limitations and transformed by the Evas into beings more akin to the Angels, Seele or the Evas themselves. I believe they've gone full transhumanist while still retaining their humans forms as opposed to simply being frozen in time. We've seen Asuka grow fangs and then lose them a few minutes later. Basic human biology probably does not apply anymore.
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:06 pm

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:I think there's a lot more to the Curse of Eva than simple biological stasis. When you compare Gendo's comments on the burdens of humanity with the Children's agelessness and ability to go where the Lilin can't, it seems like they've been purified of the FoK's limitations and transformed by the Evas into beings more akin to the Angels, Seele or the Evas themselves. I believe they've gone full transhumanist while still retaining their humans forms as opposed to simply being frozen in time. We've seen Asuka grow fangs and then lose them a few minutes later. Basic human biology probably does not apply anymore.


Yes, I think that's a completely legit argument. We don't know what "Curse of Eva" means, but we've seen enough to know we can't assume anything. At this point all bets are off and we don't know what the heck is going on.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

BlueBasilisk
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 1158
Joined: Nov 14, 2010
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby BlueBasilisk » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:18 pm

Either way it turns out, relationships are going to be a problem for the two of them even if the Curse is undone at the end. Anyone actually 14 will seem immature to them (see: Shinji) since they have twice the life experience and said person will eventually age past Mari & Asuka, while anyone their chronological age will have to deal with the fact that the girls have teenage bodies that might not ever change.

Mari is probably Asuka's best option right now. They've likely fought/lived together for several years by 3.0, so they'd have a good idea what a relationship with the other would entail, they trust each other, and Mari is the only person who can completely understand Asuka's situation because they're in the same boat. If they want to have a relationship, I say go for it. They can handle it.
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 71
Posts: 9441
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:11 pm

View Original PostLennik wrote:I don't remember any line in the movie that indicates the pilots are now "mentally 28,"

They have 28 years of experience - and experience is a considerable part of becoming adult. And we have no positive statement either that they remain as hormonally challenged as some (but by no means all) 14yos - again, experience is part of learning to deal with that in any case.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Sad, sad Shinji... (details); Past avatars.
Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 9894
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:22 am

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:Either way it turns out, relationships are going to be a problem for the two of them even if the Curse is undone at the end. Anyone actually 14 will seem immature to them (see: Shinji) since they have twice the life experience and said person will eventually age past Mari & Asuka, while anyone their chronological age will have to deal with the fact that the girls have teenage bodies that might not ever change.

Mari is probably Asuka's best option right now. They've likely fought/lived together for several years by 3.0, so they'd have a good idea what a relationship with the other would entail, they trust each other, and Mari is the only person who can completely understand Asuka's situation because they're in the same boat. If they want to have a relationship, I say go for it. They can handle it.

Shinji still has a chance, he just needs time to mature into an adult. His problem is that he slept through fourteen years and never grew up while everyone else did (perhaps a commentary on NEETs?). He doesn't necessarily need fourteen years of experience, but enough life experience to be recognized as an adult in Asuka's eyes. Then the one true pair will be formed. :nyao:
"Chaos is merely a human construct. The world only knows its own natural law of harmony and order."
"So you are saying it's the human heart that throws the world into confusion."

Ray
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 6384
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:32 am

How is Shinji a NEET? He didn't choose to lock himself away for 14 years. It just kind of happened.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 9894
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:28 am

View Original PostRay wrote:How is Shinji a NEET? He didn't choose to lock himself away for 14 years. It just kind of happened.

It was already in his nature to shut himself away, seen in a much more realistic way in NGE. His retreat into his mother's womb for fourteen years is an extreme version of NEET fulfilment.
"Chaos is merely a human construct. The world only knows its own natural law of harmony and order."
"So you are saying it's the human heart that throws the world into confusion."

Stillborn
Donor
Donor
User avatar
Posts: 2427
Joined: Apr 28, 2013
Location: Huge wastebin
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Stillborn » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:24 pm

I don't see how the hell he retreated himself. First he used Eva to save Rei because "when all you have is a hammer..." and after literally crawling through angel's souls and being skinned alive, I believe he would be dead tired and could allow himself to lose consciousnes on the spot. It's not like he decided he will stay in there forever.
Another jaded man.
Wciąż stoję nieruchomo, w nieżywym już szeregu. Umieram na stojąco, niech inni giną w biegu.

Lennik
Tunniel
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 180
Joined: Apr 18, 2013
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lennik » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:07 pm

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy the "crawling back into the womb" thing. He got trapped.

Granted, he also did kind of shut himself off there when Rei apologized for failing to bring him and his father together, and he replied that he already had everything he needed. Which kind of resembles giving up on life and personal advancement. But I would rather chalk that up to the kid needing a goddamn break after the crap week he'd just had, rather than some subconscious Oedipus thing.

Now I'm drifting off-topic, though. Back to Mari and Asuka being gay.

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 22649
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Contact:

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:38 pm

Overthinking the idea that Shinji shuttered himself away -- whether consciously, it matters not -- doesn't make much sense when 2.0 had an entire scene inside his head demonstrating his innate desire to retreat from the world. You don't put that in a movie then have it suddenly become irrelevant when the kid actually retreats into a fuzzy womb of non-entity for 14 years. The Oedipal stuff, BTW, is more blatant now than it's ever been, and there's no way it isn't a factor in what happened there.

Regarding what Basilisk said, earlier iterations of 2.0 were actually straight-up about Seele wanting to merge humans with Angels.

BlueBasilisk
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 1158
Joined: Nov 14, 2010
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby BlueBasilisk » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:59 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Regarding what Basilisk said, earlier iterations of 2.0 were actually straight-up about Seele wanting to merge humans with Angels.


...I forgot all about that. :sweatdrop: That topic might warrant its own thread (if it doesn't have one already) so this one doesn't meander anymore. ^_^
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!

Mack
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 8
Joined: Dec 23, 2016
Location: Ohio, USA
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Mack » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:33 am

Honestly they give me more of a cop buddies vibe than anything else, like Asuka is Riggs and Mari is Glover.

Guy Nacks
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2848
Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Gender: Male

Re: If Mari and Asuka are/were Gay. . .

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:57 pm

I'm sure Anno & co. will continue to keep things ambiguous in Final so a portion of the fan base can continue hyperactively theorizing if two of its female characters know what each other's naughty bits taste like.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests