How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby LightDragonman » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:37 am

This is just something that I, being the Rei fan that I am, am rather concerned about.

I just have this nasty feeling, based on Anno's comments and the like, that he will either drop Rei's development and character growth, or he'll give unsatisfactory conclusions to her. I don't mind her ultimately dying, but she needs to be given a good send-off.

It just feels like because he doesn't care for her character beyond the fact that "she's a symbol of otaku's unwillingness to face real people". Heck, I even heard some say that the reason he was so hard on Shinji in 3.33 is because the kid wanted to save and be with Rei, which Anno sees as retreating from reality or something like that.

Which, if true, makes me feel frustrated, because that means Anno simply doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that Rei is popular for reasons beyond the superficial, and would rather mock her fans and the like. That, and he seems to much prefer Asuka, and if recent comments by him are any indication, he's gonna focus almost entirely on her this time around at the expense of Rei.

What say you? Am I fretting over nothing?
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:31 am

Well, here's the short answer: as far as we, the viewer, are concerned, Rei is dead and gone, and this new character, however, Anno and Co. may treat her, isn't Rei.

That makes room for the long answer, which I think I can start off by saying that without trying to analyze where Rei II is or if she's still alive, Rei III/Q is an entirely different character than the Rei that we've come to know (and love, for some of us.) Unlike her series counterpart, Rei Q doesn't have any of the memories of her former self, and in that sense is a new, original character. I understand how that sounds odd-- after all, she looks exactly like Rei II, and even has many of the marked character traits that came to define Rei for us as a character: her introverted attitude, her inability to express herself emotionally... on the surface, she is Rei II, and many of us probably believed (or at the very least, didn't outright deny) that it was Rei II in the Mk.09 at the beginning of 3.33.

However, the identities of these two characters don't extend past the skin or beyond their most visible emotions. Rei III does not have any of the memories of Rei II, any of the past experiences. She is therefore, in effect, not the same character. Now, we're in the fourth act. We're in the final stage of the Jo-Ha-Kyu structure. We're at the end of the line, and what do we have before us? An entirely new character who is almost a complete blank slate. A character whose development could go in any direction. And, dare I say it, we're looking at Rei II as we first saw her in 1.11. (Hey, that's kind of a cool idea. Maybe I'll make a thread about this.)

I'm not particularly worried about how Anno is going to treat Rei Q in Shin. She's a brand-new character for him to play around with, and she's in territory that Evangelion hasn't really charted before. We have a character who's a clone and is aware that she's a clone, but can't remember anything about her former self (as opposed to Rei III as we saw her in the TV series, where she retained all the memories her earlier counterparts.

Throughout this, though, it's important to remember that Rei Q isn't really Rei. She's a new character that because of the way she looks, we're going to have an attachment to that we probably wouldn't have for any other new character. It's kind of like Kaworu when he came in for the third act. We all knew who Kaworu was, but for a new person coming into the series, he was just that naked grey-haired dude who showed up a couple times in the first two movies and then spouted some philosophy before nearly making out with Shinji and doing some stuff in an Eva that was really confusing and oh hey, he's getting his head blown off now and we didn't really get to learn much about him.

I'll try to directly answer your question now the best I can. For all intents and purposes, Rei II's character growth and development seems to have been "blown off", as you say, with the ending of 2.22. In that sense, you don't really have anything to worry about for Shin (granted, this assumes that we're not running around with analysis about where Rei II could be and we take at face value that she's gone. inb4 Rei is SDAT) However, Anno is not obligated to focus on Rei just because the fanbase likes her. If he wants to tell a story about Asuka, that's what he's gonna do. Asuka notwithstanding, though, this isn't exactly the best scenario for you-- despite the fact that you won't have to worry about Rei in Shin, she already got her sendoff a full movie ago. And sure, maybe that sucks, but maybe that's the story we're telling now.

However, keep in mind that Shin is totally uncharted territory. Just because the old Rei is dead and gone (which I know is up for debate, but I'll repeat here for what I think is the third time that I'm offering this answer with the assumption that Rei is indeed dead, which is a theory I may or may not support and goddamn this is a long parenthesis) does not mean that this new Rei can't be an interesting character for us to enjoy and grow to appreciate. It might be hard for us to embrace her as a new character because of how similar she looks to Rei II and how similar some of her character traits and mannerisms are, but she has the potential to be a new character for us to come to enjoy and maybe even love. It might also mean that Anno is happily rid of Rei II and having to worry about her character development and that Shin is going to be a total Asukafest (which hey, I wouldn't mind), but if Anno's focusing on Asuka while ignoring Rei, that's the tale he's telling.

The option we haven't mentioned, though, is that Anno can explore Asuka's character without completely ignoring Rei Q's development into a character. There's no reason why both characters can't both develop in the same movie-- and if I had to guess, I'd say that's the attitude Anno's going to take. Rei Q is a gold mine of untapped potential; she's a character he can go any way he wants with, and I look forward to seeing what he does.

Assuming Rei Q is the new Rei and that's the character that we get to see developed, that's going to mean that Rei II is gone, which is something you don't want. If that turns out to be the case... well, that's shitty, but that's the new Eva for us.

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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:46 am

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:What say you? Am I fretting over nothing?


Yes.

This second guessing Anno business was stale years ago when it focused on Shinji, and it doesn't get any better when you start applying it to other characters. Anno will knock our socks off with Final. We know that (or should), so for now we should just sit tight and wait for the man to produce. Fretting over what might happen is silly since past experience has shown us that what we get will in no way be what we might expect, and nor will it be anything we ever could have hoped to predict.

In short, stop worrying and get on with your life.
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Postby pwhodges » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:51 am

If even I, who hadn't written a story in 50 years, could find a way to provide end stories for both poka-Rei and ReiQ in one short fic, I'm sure Anno will have absolutely no difficulty in delighting us all.
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Postby LightDragonman » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:54 am

However, keep in mind that Shin is totally uncharted territory. Just because the old Rei is dead and gone (which I know is up for debate, but I'll repeat here for what I think is the third time that I'm offering this answer with the assumption that Rei is indeed dead, which is a theory I may or may not support and goddamn this is a long parenthesis) does not mean that this new Rei can't be an interesting character for us to enjoy and grow to appreciate. It might be hard for us to embrace her as a new character because of how similar she looks to Rei II and how similar some of her character traits and mannerisms are, but she has the potential to be a new character for us to come to enjoy and maybe even love. It might also mean that Anno is happily rid of Rei II and having to worry about her character development and that Shin is going to be a total Asukafest (which hey, I wouldn't mind), but if Anno's focusing on Asuka while ignoring Rei, that's the tale he's telling.


Personally, I would mind if it ended up being a total Asuka-fest, because that would mean he's ignoring a character that the saga has been following more in favor of trying to cram in all of Asuka's development and relationships, which haven't been as focused on compared to the original series, into one film. Plus, sidelining Rei and the like, especially if he deliberately killed Rei II off just to focus on Asuka and Rei Q just screams of him having wasted a perfectly good character just for the sake of the plot.

Plus, Rei II, despite being absent in Q, does have a strong impact on its plot and direction. So I would really be ticked off if Anno doesn't at least give her closure and the like just so he can focus on Asuka.
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Postby The Cruel » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:18 am

I think neither Rei nor Asuka can't be ignored, because both are known to affect Shinjis actions during the course of the story wether it's Neon Genesis or Rebuild.

The person in question would be the one who 'll force Shinji to make the final decision over himself and the rest of mankind.

In Neon Genesis, Asuka was the one who forced Shinji to cause 3I during Pre-Instrumentality while Rei just gave him as much control as possible over this event as long as he is able to do so.

In Rebuild it might end different this time while the key people are the same.

While the Rei as we know her and whats left of her can affect Shinji, the same can be said about Rei Q despite that she is a different character.

And about Asuka, I doubt that her relationship with Shinji 'll be less painful and brutal than it was in Neon Genesis, even if things 'll be different.

While Asuka is now a soldier of a guerilla-wise organization with 14 years of war expirience and being embittered and sensitive over her history while having an angelic infection similair to a certain level of cancer and Shinji being stigmatized as the mass murderer of mankind or being outlawed for having the potential to do so, it 'll be a struggle of two creatures scarred from tons of strokes of fate that is grotesque and wonderful at once.

And the highlight of their struggle 'll be the revelation of their "affections".
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:16 pm

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:...sidelining Rei and the like, especially if he deliberately killed Rei II off just to focus on Asuka and Rei Q, just screams of him having wasted a perfectly good character just for the sake of the plot.

I highly doubt that Rei II was a wasted character-- just look at how much impact she had in the first two movies! I do understand, though; you're a Rei fan, and it bothers you that she's not getting time in the spotlight. Just remember to keep in mind that just because one of your favorite characters isn't getting to be in the limelight doesn't mean that a film won't be fantastic in other ways.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:09 pm

Feeling like a broken record at this point, but I really think the build-up is more than obvious that Shinji in FINAL will have some kind of farewell/discussion with Yui and Rei-2 within Eva-01. The hows and whys--and what this means for both Rei-2/Q-Rei--who knows right now.

But the narrative really seems to be building up to that kind of drama, when we haven't seen Yui (as her soul within Eva-01) yet in the New Movies, compared to seeing her twice in # 16 and # 20 before The Movie (EoE).

Anno and company know what they're doing, as evidenced by seemingly little things like this with Asuka. LightDragonman, seriously, don't worry so much anymore and just enjoy the ride.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:35 pm

Topic Title wrote:How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:23 pm

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:What say you? Am I fretting over nothing?
Given that Rei got relegated to minor character status 1/4 the way through the original, you've already done better out of the Rebuilds than the original series.

I guess it's too late now just to get off Mr Anno's wild ride.
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Postby pwhodges » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:34 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Feeling like a broken record at this point, but I really think the build-up is more than obvious that Shinji in FINAL will have some kind of farewell/discussion with Yui and Rei-2 within Eva-01. The hows and whys--and what this means for both Rei-2/Q-Rei--who knows right now.

And I came up with the same idea independently!
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:44 pm

It would be awesome to see, that's for sure-- but I'm with SSD as far as agreeing that we have no idea how such a conversation would take place. Speaking independently, I do hope that Rei II isn't gone. I like her character, and I loved watching her character through 1.11 and 2.22. Rei Q is nice and all, but I would be lying if I didn't say that I really do want to see Rei II in Shin (despite my essay about why this may not be the case.)

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Postby Lennik » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:38 pm

I want to point out that if Rei II really is dead and gone, just because a character dies before you think they should have does not mean they were a wasted character. Anno is a competent storyteller. I'm with the others in this thread saying that he knows what he's doing, and we don't need to demean his storytelling skill just because something happens in the story that might upset us. We saw the same thing during the immediate aftermath (and a few years later) of 3.33. People were talking about how messed up Anno's writing was getting and how he's allegedly written himself into a corner with Shinji. The man's not a chump. He's going to finish the important character arcs, and it's going to be satisfying.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:44 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:It would be awesome to see, that's for sure-- but I'm with SSD as far as agreeing that we have no idea how such a conversation would take place.


Metaphysical, I'd figure, but whether or not that metaphysically has to equal Instrumentality in FINAL... :shrug:

Even if for whatever reason we don't have Shinji and Rei 2 interacting (I don't see how that could work thematically!), I'd wager Rei 2 and 3.0 Rei will, in some fashion.
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Na7e » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:37 pm

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:It just feels like because he doesn't care for her character beyond the fact that "she's a symbol of otaku's unwillingness to face real people". Heck, I even heard some say that the reason he was so hard on Shinji in 3.33 is because the kid wanted to save and be with Rei, which Anno sees as retreating from reality or something like that.


You literally had two films of Rei focus, stop acting like Anno doesn't care about her otherwise he could have easily back seated her like he did in the original series, instead he backseated Asuka while Rei got the lions share of development. Just because her character is based on tragedy doesn't minimize her screen time or importance. Rei was always played tragically that way from the beginning with the subtle/blatant infancy nods, her sadness from being basically trapped no matter what she did, or her relationship with Shinji as being a nod to Gendo/Yui.

This magically doesn't mean Rei will never show up again, but like Kaworu and Yui they'll show up probably towards the end offering a solution, and one last proper send off as the only characters that love Shinji unconditionally.

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:17 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Feeling like a broken record at this point, but I really think the build-up is more than obvious that Shinji in FINAL will have some kind of farewell/discussion with Yui and Rei-2 within Eva-01. The hows and whys--and what this means for both Rei-2/Q-Rei--who knows right now.

But the narrative really seems to be building up to that kind of drama, when we haven't seen Yui (as her soul within Eva-01) yet in the New Movies, compared to seeing her twice in # 16 and # 20 before The Movie (EoE).

Anno and company know what they're doing, as evidenced by seemingly little things like this with Asuka. LightDragonman, seriously, don't worry so much anymore and just enjoy the ride.


This, a thousand times over. Anno is a competent storyteller, and we know from past experience that he doesn't discard useful or relevant characters willy-nilly (sorry Touji). Rei will get her due in Final, same as Shinji and Asuka and everyone else. People just need to have a little faith.
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Postby TheAdmiral » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:09 am

Rei, regardless of which version of her clone, will likely be a critical actor in the unfolding of the final film, just as she was in End of Evangelion. She is the symbolic representation of the Yin principle, the sacred feminine, Isis, the goddess--who plays a pivotal role in Shinji's evolution. Rebuild is a different dance, but the main actors and their roles are pretty much the same.

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Postby LightDragonman » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:58 am

I guess the reason I'm concerned is because, given the comments made by Anno that pretty much says he doesn't care for her character, and is happy that others like Asuka are growing in popularity over her, he's not gonna do anything with her, or treat her poorly, because he feels no attachment to her.

Not to mention the fact that he hates that she has fans who don't find her creepy, or take her the way he intended.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:11 pm

Aren't those comments all super old?
From the narrative set up in the three movies that make up Rebuild so far, aside from Gendo & Kaworu (who's dead but will certainly have some screen time thanks to Angel magic) the two characters who are most important to Shinji are Rei & Misato.

If anything we'll probably see more of Rei (or Rei's) in Final than in any of the other three movies.

(I also don't doubt that Asuka fans will again be pissed off because even if she does have significantly more screen time she's absolutely a supporting character in Rebuild & not a lead)

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Postby AuraTwilight » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:43 pm

View Original PostThe Cruel wrote:In Neon Genesis, Asuka was the one who forced Shinji to cause 3I during Pre-Instrumentality while Rei just gave him as much control as possible over this event as long as he is able to do so.

In Rebuild it might end different this time while the key people are the same.


So what you're saying is...Giant Naked Asuka? I think a lot of people can get behind that.
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