Who loved who?

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

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Olin of Xephon
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Who loved who?

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Postby Olin of Xephon » Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:26 am

To quote Metallica, "Love is Control!"
And as a famous playright by the name of william loved to remind us, Love can kill you.
And many horrible things have been done in the name of love.

Who in Evangelion truly loved eachother?
This of course brings us to two or three(dozen) grey areas.

The two I'm thinking of are Yui and Gendo. Yui says she loved him, or at least wanted to comfort him. So he didn't feel so lonely. Was she just using him?
Gendo was obssessed with getting Yui back. Does that mean he loved her or was, rather like Shinji, desperate for someone he thought he could trust? The only person who didn't hate him?

The other Gray area that comes to my mind, is Misato and Kaji.
"they always seemed like such a perfect couple" said Naoko, but it seems there relationship had degnerated to rather like Asuka says at one point "just two stupid grown ups licking eachother's wounds."
Did they really love eachother?

This ofc ourse leads to you personal idea of exactly what love is.

So any thoughts? Whon loved who? Feel free to bring some of the many examples I haven't mentioned here.
I asked "And where would you take me?"
At this the beast laughed, tears made of my mother's blood leaked from his eyes.
"I will take you to every place you never wanted to be, and you will hate it."
"Then I will take you to every place you've already been, and you will hate that also."
"Last I will take you to the places you have always dreamed of, and that you'll hate worst of all."

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Postby the_seventh_child » Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:33 am

Four Grey areas come to my mind:The first is Misato and Kaji.Misato didn't seem to love Kaji from the beggining(in episode15 i think,she says to him that he may have used him in the past)but in the end i believe she did.On the other hand Kaji just can't find the proper way to say this to her(his feelings are clear to his last message)
The second is Shinji and Asuka.They both love each other but they don't admit it.
And the third i don't know but i believe that Ritsuko loved Gendo just like her mother did although she knew that Gendo's heart belonged to his wife Yui(The fourth Grey area.I believe that Yui and Gendo loved each other a lot.Proof of this is Shinji.)

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Postby sadsadshinji » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:07 am

i agree with what you said...
Shinji and Asuka do fail to open up..
however, ritsuko and naoko might not have loved gendo...they might have been in a relationship for something else...i dont know what though..maybe the feeling of power that emanates from gendo
by the way, seventh child, nice Asuka avatar...

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Postby the_seventh_child » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:26 am

sadsadshinji wrote:i agree with what you said...
Shinji and Asuka do fail to open up..
however, ritsuko and naoko might not have loved gendo...they might have been in a relationship for something else...i dont know what though..maybe the feeling of power that emanates from gendo
by the way, seventh child, nice Asuka avatar...

Thanks :) I know it is a nice avatar.About Ritsuko and Naoko,i think in episode 23 Ritsuko says (when she destroys the souless bodies of Rei) "Both mother and daughter are stupid"I believe this means something.

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Postby Nephilim » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:29 am

Evangelion is not about romantic love per se, is mainly about people understanding other people, even Yui said that about Gendo.
But going very simplistic, here i give you all the who loved who thing:
Misato & Kaji love eachother
Gendo & Yui love eachother
Shinji & Asuka love eachother
Fuyutsuki loves Yui
Naoko Loves Gendo (in a very obsessive way)
Ritsuko loves Gendo (in a very obsessive way)
Makoto loves Misato
Maya loves Ritsuko
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Postby Phaze » Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:09 pm

Hikari loves Toji
Aoba loves no one

I think Gendo definetely loved Yui, because you don't use everyone you know to initiate Third Impact so you can remain as one with someone you don't love.

Yui also probably loved Gendo, because she chose to remain in the sea of LCL even though she could have returned.
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Postby sadsadshinji » Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:34 pm

i read somewhere that aoba loved maya....

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Postby houtaru » Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:45 pm

I'm not sure if it was real love or not. I do agree Misato and Kaji loved each other, but didnt really understand themselves enough to know it (until the end). I think that Shinji and Asuka had a similar relationship too. I see a lot of parallels for Misato & Kaji and Asuka & Shinji relationships.

The rest of the Gendo relationships are more 'physical' or just out of desperation. In the end, Yui chose to be in the Eva and not come back to Gendo. I think that Gendo knew, especially in EOE, that Yui was not pleased with the way he treated Shinji. (Even Gendo himself felt guilty for his neglect and abuse). They may have started out in love, but it became more of an unhealty obsession in the end. He just used the other girls. God I hate him.

Hikari and Toji seemed to like each other a lot. I thought that would have been a great match. Hikari loved him. He would have probably loved her too if he knew she liked him.

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Postby Timesplitter 01 » Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:45 am

houtaru wrote:I'm not sure if it was real love or not. I do agree Misato and Kaji loved each other, but didnt really understand themselves enough to know it (until the end). I think that Shinji and Asuka had a similar relationship too. I see a lot of parallels for Misato & Kaji and Asuka & Shinji relationships.



I agree with the parallels between them
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Postby The Eva Monkey » Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:16 am

Gendo & Yui - Did they love each other? In my opinion, yes. And I don't think there's any need to argue for or against it.

Misato & Kaji - Yes, duh. Bow chikka bow bow. 8)

Shinji & Asuka - Who knows. There is a parallel between Shinji+Asuka and Misato+Kaji. Its subtle, and its never really explored in the show, but there definetly is something there.

Maya & Ritsuko - Maya has feelings for her senpai, obviously. I don't know if I would call it "love".

Touji & Hikari - They make a cute couple, but its just harmless teen crushing. I don't know many people who crush on someone at that age and stick with it.

Fuyutsuki & Yui - I don't know if anything ever happened between the two, but I'm certain that Fuyutsuki has a hopeless crush on her, and never quite got over it.

Gendo & Naoko/Ritsuko - This seems to me to just be about sex and manipulation. Naoko never loved Gendo, Gendo only wanted to manipulate. As for Ritsuko, I think there might be something more than sex. It would seem to be that on the surface, and she speaks lightly of relationships, the kind of person who would only be interested in the physicality of it. However her reactions and emotional responses about it go beyond the way someone only interested in sex would act. I think Ritsuko's interest in Gendo is not entirely out of sexual gratifcation. I don't think its something as profound as love, but she does seem to have some greater feelings for Gendo.

Hyuga & Misato - Hyuga has a fanboy crush on Misato. Nothing more.

Rei & Shinji - Shinji merely has a fixation on Rei born from his confusion, as he tries to comprehend her relationship to him. Rei on the other hand does have some sort of desire, at least just before her death, to "Become one with Ikari". It reaks of Oedipus issues, but there is something there.

Misato & Shinji - I don't think there's really anything to this. Shinji never displays any interest in Misato. She frenches him in EOE, but I think thats simply her hopelessly flawed way of trying to show motherly affection for him. It didn't mean anything, especially as several minutes later she called out for Kaji, calling him her love.

Asuka & Kaji - Kaji is Asuka's hopelessly unrealistic teenage crush. She doesn't love him, she simply crushed on him. Kaji doesn't care. He's so cool.

Kaworu & Shinji - Their relationship does have some homo-erotic undertones, but I think that people simply can't be dissuaded from believing what they want. I think its purely platonic.

Gendo & Rei - I don't even want to think about whether Gendo ever did anything with Rei. But Gendo does look at Rei and see Yui, so he can't love her, but the person she resembles. As for Rei, she obviously has some affinity for Gendo, but as she finds the same qualities in Shinji, her affinity soon gravitates towards Shinji instead.

Sometimes I forget just how many bizarre relationships are in Eva.

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Postby Kiel » Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:22 am

Jason Lee, Aoba's English VA once commented,

"Almost everyone in Eva has someone to love...
...'cept Aoba. He get's no lovin'.
That's probably why he's so grumpy all the time".

In EoE, Aoba saw the multitude of Reis reaching for him.

Like Jason Lee said: "Maybe he just wanted Rei to
tie him up and beat him". :lol: :lol:

Personally, I think you people are missing some of the key characters!

When people started to explode into orange goo in EOE, in Seele, i could see the following happening...

04 (voice only): Um...I have something to tell you.

06 (voice only): What is it?

04 (voice only): I uh...I like you.

06 (voice only): Oh. I like you too.

04 (voice only): No. I mean I like you[i], like you.

06 (voice only): Uhhhhhhh....


:lol:
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Postby Kiel » Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:34 am

Okay! Let's try this dance again!

Shinji loves Asuka

Asuka loves Kaji

Kaji loves Misato

Misato loves Beer

Beer loves Misato

Pen Pen loves Misato

Ritsuko loves Gendou

Gendou loves Yui

Yui loves Shinji

Kihl loves SEELE

SEELE loves getting a free lunch with the end of the world.

Rei I loves Gendou

Rei II loves Gendou...again

Rei III loves...well, not Gendou!

Rei IV loves...well, she doesn't exist.

Kaworu loves Shinji...and music.

The Angels love God!
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Postby Crazyman42 » Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:40 pm

I think the only love that was ever in Evangelion was Gendou and Yui.

The rest of Evangelion seems not to be love, but something that humans do to look for answers. Misato never loved Kaji, Rei never loved Gendou. Rei needed a reason to live, and Misato only did it beacause she was uncomfortable and disturbed.
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There is some funny stuff here...

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Postby Olin of Xephon » Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:39 pm

That's what I'm saying Crazyman, at which point does physical attraction become true love?
I'm not convenced everybody who seemed to love eachother in Eva really loved eachother.

A lot of them had pretty screwed up relationships, of course, that depends on your definition of what a healthy realationship is.
It's like when Asuka says "I've never known someone to be in such a indecent relationship...It's disgusting!"

On one level she may have been right. On another, Kaji and Misato really did love eachother. And Asukas' one to talk, she was throwing herself at Kaji before she came to Tokyo.
Did she really love him?

I agree Gendo loved Yui, but I always kind of thought Yui was a little cold, like Ritsuko, to detached to really be in love, she seemed to have more love for Shinji, who thought Gendo had no love for him, who loved Yui with all his heart, although she never tried to hard to get back to him.

And what Gendo had going with the Akagis can not be considered love right? Or did those women really see something in him. I think that relationship was all about control.

As far as the pilots go, it's hard to tell, they are children, and although young love can be just as real as a adult's love for one another, they are often completely different things.

So who loved who? And who just wanted to control who?
And who just wanted to cop a feel- I mean needed something purely physical?

Although you can't tell me physical has absolutely nothing to do with the emtional.
I asked "And where would you take me?"
At this the beast laughed, tears made of my mother's blood leaked from his eyes.
"I will take you to every place you never wanted to be, and you will hate it."
"Then I will take you to every place you've already been, and you will hate that also."
"Last I will take you to the places you have always dreamed of, and that you'll hate worst of all."

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Re: There is some funny stuff here...

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Postby the_seventh_child » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:31 am

Olin of Xephon wrote:And Asukas' one to talk, she was throwing herself at Kaji before she came to Tokyo.
Did she really love him?

I don't think Asuka loved Kaji.It seems to me like these crushes we girls have at the age of thirteen,fourteen with our teachers(particularly here with her instructor.)

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Postby sadsadshinji » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:26 am

i agree....she seems just to be attracted to his adultness...something she strives for...

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Postby Timesplitter 01 » Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:33 pm

sadsadshinji wrote:i agree....she seems just to be attracted to his adultness...something she strives for...


Yea , this is driven by her emotional troubles , especially with her mother. She also says when she is a child , I am never going to cry again ( or something like that)
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Postby sadsadshinji » Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:12 am

she wanted to be an adult (mature and such) and thus she wanted to have an adult boyfriend (Kaji)

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...............

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Postby the-artist-known-as-chris » Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:19 pm

"Misato & Shinji - I don't think there's really anything to this. Shinji never displays any interest in Misato."

He does care about her though, that much is clear.


"She frenches him in EOE, but I think thats simply her hopelessly flawed way of trying to show motherly affection for him."

Like many scenes in eva, this is contraversial and up for interpretation, but common, give Misato alittle credit. She isnt mentally retarded. Yes she shows effection in a more sexual nature, whether it be teasing or what not. But to say it was a motherly attempt....ewww, im glad her and Kaji never had kids then.....

If anything, Misato kissed Shinji beacuse: 1) She was dying, and was saying goodbye 2) she wanted to show Shinji that he was loved 3) she revealed just how much she cared about him 4) gave him alittle confidence in himself, or made him feel more like a man, so he could get into the eva.

I feel it's a mixture of all those reasons listed.

"It didn't mean anything, especially as several minutes later she called out for Kaji, calling him her love."

You can love more than one person, Kaji had been dead up to this point, Misato could of grwon more affectionately to Shinji in that time.

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Postby Olin of Xephon » Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:23 am

I totally agree with all of the above, the fourth directly.
I think she was trying her damnest to motivate Shinji, first dragging him, then being rough with him, giving him a speach about living a life wihtout regretts, then tounge kissing him to apeal to his more masculine side.

Agreed the action was in many ways flawed, but it was heartfelt.
I asked "And where would you take me?"
At this the beast laughed, tears made of my mother's blood leaked from his eyes.
"I will take you to every place you never wanted to be, and you will hate it."
"Then I will take you to every place you've already been, and you will hate that also."
"Last I will take you to the places you have always dreamed of, and that you'll hate worst of all."


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