The new Magi in Q?

[unitM]

The magi system that flashes on WILLE characters screen is named Achiral. This is interesting, because not only is it a deviation from the wise man naming scheme, but it's name is a reference to themes referenced throughout the movie.

From Wikipedia,
"An object or a system is chiral if it is distinguishable from its mirror image; that is, it cannot be superposed onto it. Conversely, a mirror image of an achiral object, such as a sphere, cannot be distinguished from the object. A chiral object and its mirror image are called enantiomorphs (Greek opposite forms) or, when referring to molecules, enantiomers. A non-chiral object is called achiral (sometimes also amphichiral) and can be superposed on its mirror image."

This also raises the question of what happened to the original Magi systems. Did they betray Ritsuko's favor, as they did in EoE, and side with Gendou? I doubt WILLE and SEELE use the same Magi systems now.

Thoughts?

[robersora]

I think it just shows, that Ritsuko somehow has an indistinguishable Mirror version of the Magi with her on Wunder. I guess to have the real thing up there would have taken up too much space and would have added to much weight, so they go with "streaming" from the original, somewhere down below. I don't think, she uses the Nerv Magi as "server", but built one of her own for Wille during the 15 year period.

Nice catch, though. Didn't think about the Magi up until now, lol.

[ElMariachi]

Yep, the Wunder has its own MAGI, in fact we even see then in the Command Bridge:

Behind Sakura:

SPOILER: Show

Between Ritsuko and Misato:

SPOILER: Show

Behind Misato in her command platform:

SPOILER: Show

You'll notice that they are painted blue instead of red as the ones NERV used.

[Ray]

Question.

Are they the same Magi recovered/Confiscated from Nerv before the organizations spilt, or did wille make their own?

[Shinoyami65]

^Probably a new one made by Ritsuko. You'll notice there's only one pillar instead of three, and as mentioned in the OP it's referred to as a 'Magi Achiral' which implies it's a copy/mirror image of the original Magi rather than one of the originals.

[unitM]

With the politics at playin Q though, do you guys really think that Achiral would be the same as the previous Magi?

In NGE, there were a number of NERV separations. One was when SEELE bombarded HQ in EoE; SEELE showed direct hostility towards NERV's systems. The 2nd was, as mentioned, when Ritsuko threatened not only Gendou but NERV HQ with her self destruct sequence.

Though Rebuild gives us different looks at the secrets of Evangelion, there isn't much direct hostility thrown at NERV. Not in the same way where Ritsuko is a switch away from ending the entire plot of the series. However, when Q hits, a lot of this changes. NERV is a completely different entity than WILLE, and perhaps the rest of the world. Misato acknowledges this in front of Shinji, perhaps too hastily.

The previous Magi systems belongs to NERV(and has shown a preference for the organization(or at least Gendou)in past iterations of the series). Wouldn't it be a bit hasty to conclude that Achiral is WILLE's 1:1 copy of a system that doesn't belong to WILLE in the first place?

How does one make a MAGI? The first one was basically Ritsuko's mom's psyche operating a great amount of software no?

[Reichu]

How does one make a MAGI? The first one was basically Ritsuko's mom's psyche operating a great amount of software no?

Can't assume that's still true, though. So far, Naoko doesn't even exist in this continuity.

[Sachi]

What's striking my curiosity is the fact that there is only one Magi in possession of the Wille, whereas Nerv has three. The three original supercomputers together made a unique combination because they were each slightly different and voted amongst themselves to come up with the best possible outcome. If Wille only has one Magi, does it have that much less efficiency as a system, or does Achiral acquire capabilities equivalent to all three of the originals combined? Maybe the advance in technology allowed for a smaller version that was just as powerful, if not more so than the original.

[robersora]

^
Maybe Ritsuko was like, "Eh, fuck it, Misato does anyway what she wants, why should I hassle programming 3 Computers, when all the analysing can be done by one?"

[unitM]

While I agree that previous continuities are not this, one, I still don't feel that the Archiral Magi is simp,y just a copy of the previous Magi.

Let's cut out any fluff from the previous series. WILLE is trying very hard right now to distance themselves from NERV's scenario. Gendou somehow betrayed SEELE and it's strongly suggested in Q that NERV is a crew of 2 staff. If the trailers for Q have any bearing, NERV was imprisoned and the members perhaps exiled. The political landscape is much different than it was 14 years before.

14 years prior to Q, NERV held command over the Magi. 14 years later, WILLE has a different type of Magi. WILLE and NERV are competiting entities, and unit 13's screen is able to identify an angel. The identification of an angel is through the Magi, and so NERV must also possess a magi.

Given the change in roles in Q, I don't think it's accurate to say that Magi Achiral is the same as the previous Magi.

@Sachi, I don't remember the exact details of the development of the Magi, but I believe it was based on the distinct personalities of Ritsuko's mum. There were 3 distinct systems.

Freud supposed that three parts of the human psyche - the id, ego, and superego - are always in conflict. The resolutions to this conflict are the actions and behaviours we undertake. Anno is really Freudian in his work.

Eric Bernes furthered this psychic theory when writing about transactional analysis. He suggested there are three parts to the psyche, like Freud, but with better naming conventions - the parent, the adult, and the child. The parent and the child are emotionally-based systems, while the adult is a fact-spewing sober part of our psyche.

With the Magi system's "adult" being utilized(as you said, WILLE has one, NERV three, so this is the likely one), the system can still function properly. The Magi system is essentially a database, and a person's adult is essentially a part of the psyche that digs around to look for a well-grounded answer. However, without the other 2, it is not a whole, and I feel that the Magi's child and parent are more important to the plot and instrumentality than it's adult.

[ElMariachi]

What's striking my curiosity is the fact that there is only one Magi in possession of the Wille, whereas Nerv has three.

Actually, there are several Achiral Magis in the Wunder Command Bridge, you can see several behind Sakura, plus a smaller one in the small platform where Misato and Ritsuko are, there aren't clear shots so we can't count them, but it's implied that there are more than three Magi units.

As for the Achiral, as it design an object that can't be distinguished from its mirror image, it could mean that (assuming that the NERV Magi still has the three personality thing) Ritsuko built her own version but preferred to have it with a single personality to have better control on it.

Also, remember that the NERV Magis were managing not only the HQ, but absolutely everything in Tokyo 3, be it the automatic defense systems, the evacuation of civilians, the economy or the railway network, they were literally the brain of Tokyo 3.
The Wunder is for all intents and purposes a big battleship, so it's possible that it doesn't need a version as evolved and with human characteristics than the ones at NERV. (assuming WILLE's Magi is inferior to the NERV one, which we aren't even sure)

WILLE and NERV are competiting entities, and unit 13's screen is able to identify an angel. The identification of an angel is through the Magi, and so NERV must also possess a magi.

It's also possible that the Evas now embarks systems able to identify Angel on their own, technology marches on, especially after seeing all the advances in Eva technologies in Q (such as the 360° entry plugs with holographic HUD)

Still, since all of neo-NERV installations seems to be automated, it stands to reason that they have a powerful AI running the place, Magi or otherwise.

[unitM]

@ElM, at the end of Q, Fuyu has a laptop screen open in front of him. Gotta be getting the power from somewhere right?

[Ray]

Well they obviously have electricity. . . Where it's coming from is anyone's guess.

[Shinoyami65]

Actually, there are several Achiral Magis in the Wunder Command Bridge, you can see several behind Sakura, plus a smaller one in the small platform where Misato and Ritsuko are, there aren't clear shots so we can't count them, but it's implied that there are more than three Magi units.

As for the Achiral, as it design an object that can't be distinguished from its mirror image, it could mean that (assuming that the NERV Magi still has the three personality thing) Ritsuko built her own version but preferred to have it with a single personality to have better control on it.

Also, remember that the NERV Magis were managing not only the HQ, but absolutely everything in Tokyo 3, be it the automatic defense systems, the evacuation of civilians, the economy or the railway network, they were literally the brain of Tokyo 3.
The Wunder is for all intents and purposes a big battleship, so it's possible that it doesn't need a version as evolved and with human characteristics than the ones at NERV. (assuming WILLE's Magi is inferior to the NERV one, which we aren't even sure)



It's also possible that the Evas now embarks systems able to identify Angel on their own, technology marches on, especially after seeing all the advances in Eva technologies in Q (such as the 360° entry plugs with holographic HUD)

Still, since all of neo-NERV installations seems to be automated, it stands to reason that they have a powerful AI running the place, Magi or otherwise.

Well, if there are several Magi in the Wunder control room perhaps the Achiral does have multiple personalities. Or they could be related to controlling the rest of the Wunder's battleship fleet.

I do think Neo-Nerv must have some AI system to keep things running, although whether it's the old Magi or something more advanced is debatable.

[unitM]

Well they obviously have electricity. . . Where it's coming from is anyone's guess.

i doubt Fuyu was playing Minesweeper dude. He was staring at the screen at the end of Q, probably reading off some data from their own Magi. There's no point in keeping a solitary computer that holds no function.

[ElMariachi]

i doubt Fuyu was playing Minesweeper dude. He was staring at the screen at the end of Q, probably reading off some data from their own Magi. There's no point in keeping a solitary computer that holds no function.

And what is your point?
Yes, neo-NERV has electricity, we already saw it with the trolley, spotlights in EVA-13's chamber, Shinji's room, assembly factory...

[Sicarius VI]

Wow I never even noticed that there was a new Magi System in the Wunder. It explains how they are able to detect the activation of Unit-13.

Also, remember that the NERV Magis were managing not only the HQ, but absolutely everything in Tokyo 3, be it the automatic defense systems, the evacuation of civilians, the economy or the railway network, they were literally the brain of Tokyo 3.
The Wunder is for all intents and purposes a big battleship, so it's possible that it doesn't need a version as evolved and with human characteristics than the ones at NERV. (assuming WILLE's Magi is inferior to the NERV one, which we aren't even sure)

Well now, Achiral is the Brain, and Unit-01 is the heart.

[unitM]

@ElM, having electricity and having a Magi system are two different things. A modern example would be comparing electricity to the Internet.

I also don't think it's useful to discount the Wunder's Magi. Sure, the scale isn't as large as NERV. Sure, there's more to control in NERV. But you're forgetting the Wunder has not only control of its own battleship but a bunch of smaller ones as well.

[ElMariachi]

@ElM, having electricity and having a Magi system are two different things. A modern example would be comparing electricity to the Internet.

You're the one who brought up this electricity deal:

@ElM, at the end of Q, Fuyu has a laptop screen open in front of him. Gotta be getting the power from somewhere right?

I also don't think it's useful to discount the Wunder's Magi. Sure, the scale isn't as large as NERV. Sure, there's more to control in NERV. But you're forgetting the Wunder has not only control of its own battleship but a bunch of smaller ones as well.

We don't know how the rest of the fleet is managed, it's very possible that they simply have their respective crew manning them.

[robersora]

Didn't they say they got the energy for the Wunder thanks to Unit one? I guess at this point Yui-sama might have attained a S2-engine or something similar which would be enough to power the fleet and the Magi, i guess.
So maybe Gendou and Fuyutsuki use the absent Unit 7 with built in S2 organ to drive their vehicle (which might exist, considering it was suggested by their last scene together in Q).