Rei or Asuka?

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:24 pm

View Original PostMr. Jive wrote:Not everbody is so forgiving. I don't see Misato letting him fight alongside her ever again. Shinji has rage quite on her too many times and has gotten her kill too many times.


When did Shinji ever get Misato killed? Plus, the only time he actually "rage quit" was after the incident with Asuka, which is totally understandable. If the machine you're operating is forced to seriously maim a friend of yours out of your control, I'd be more surprised and worried if he DIDN'T have such a visceral reaction to it.

She is not gonna entrust the safety of her warriors and her crew to a loser that abandon her along whit his female pilots in 2.0 and EOE. You don't know what you gonna get from this dude.


Are you implying that Misato has knowledge of events spanning both continuities?

He too unstable, too unreliable and not even human. Of course his eye glowing like megatron is enough to tell you that.


I think it's too early to assume that Shinji isn't fully human at this point. Every time he went berkerker in NGE, no one questioned the fact that he's still a human teenager.

Looking at how Shinji behave in NGE, EOE and a bit in rebuild, seem like he want a girl to replace his dead mommy and have his way whit her just like he had his way whit Asuka in EOE.


There's a difference between a boy wanting someone to care for him and love him after nearly a lifetime of abandonment and a depressed, traumatized boy who's at the end of his sanity masturbating over the source of his frustrations. I'm not excusing the latter act, but it is important to take his psychological state of mind at that point in the series into account.
Plus, he's more creeped out when he finds out about Rei's origins than anything.

And can we please stop trying to turn Rei and Asuka into worthless love interest? They are warriors not Disney princess.


This I completely agree with.
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And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby Seoul Gamer » Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:33 am

Plus, he's more creeped out when he finds out about Rei's origins than anything.


I really wish they'd shown us his reaction in more detail. We see a close-up of his shocked face when he learns the truth, but that's all, and from then on we see nothing more about how Shinji feels about the revelation. The shock and horror of realising he was crushing on a clone of his mother is kind of brushed aside. When you take into account that Rei II is essentially dead now, there's no further opportunity to explore how he feels about the whole thing.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:09 am

View Original PostSeoul Gamer wrote:I really wish they'd shown us his reaction in more detail. We see a close-up of his shocked face when he learns the truth, but that's all, and from then on we see nothing more about how Shinji feels about the revelation. The shock and horror of realising he was crushing on a clone of his mother is kind of brushed aside. When you take into account that Rei II is essentially dead now, there's no further opportunity to explore how he feels about the whole thing.


Well, the fact that Shinji now thinks he's directly responsible for potentially billions of lives being lost with absolutely nothing to show for it understandably trumps simply finding out about Rei's origins. The notion that he at least saved her was all that was keeping him going after Kaworu revealed the destruction that NTI caused.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby Seoul Gamer » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:33 am

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Well, the fact that Shinji now thinks he's directly responsible for potentially billions of lives being lost with absolutely nothing to show for it understandably trumps simply finding out about Rei's origins. The notion that he at least saved her was all that was keeping him going after Kaworu revealed the destruction that NTI caused.


Oh, no doubt. But it felt strange to me that after all that foreshadowing in the first two films emphasizing the nature of the direct relationship between Rei Ayanami and Yui Ayanami, the actual reveal was very understated.

Really, they should have left the whole revelation to the fourth film, that way it wouldn't get in the way of Q's themes of responsibility and guilt.
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Postby Lennik » Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:54 pm

View Original PostSeoul Gamer wrote:Really, they should have left the whole revelation to the fourth film, that way it wouldn't get in the way of Q's themes of responsibility and guilt.


I don't see how it got in the way. It was the perfect way for Shinji to find out that his actions at the end of 2.0 were completely fruitless (from his point of view) and had no redeeming feature. It was his last coping mechanism crushed in front of him, setting him up for the despair he needed to move the plot to its final act.

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Postby Evangelion Unit 13 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:00 am

Shinji X Mari.

Or even better, Asuka X MARI!!!!

Shinji and Mari are the more possible pair, because well, that might be what Anno meant by "destroy EVA". But Asuka and Mari... God those two are perfect together. They even have nicknames for one another! :lol:
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Postby Lord ikari shinji » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:26 am

Well, after read these comments about She's(Asuka) 28, which is bullshit mind you, and Sakura blah blah, Rei blah blah, something about the lovely freak mari; I have come to the conclusion the everyone in eva fandom is over thinking these weak ass rebuilds, exactly would it come to pairings :facepalm: .

NGE was a wonderfully deep anime, directed by a depressed Anno, who perfectly ( in my opinion) fleshed out the theme of sadamoto's manga and then some. While the rebuilds are pretty much surface level flashy Shonen trash that you can see in almost every anime to today, so with that in mind let us talk pairngs in the end game of the rebuilds.

-A/S: Asuka is in no way over Shinji and the past or has the maturity level of a 28 year old, it display multiple times in Q, and most ambiguous thing in the damn movie is her feeling about seeing him again. But She obvious hold some form of sympathy, or compassion for him along with some grief for what he did to the world and her life, because he somehow with little to no development was her first crush/love interest and the one who made her realized (along with Rei) that she does like to be alone but hurt her dramatically in his action of saving Rei. A/S still lives in rebuild and has a possibility to be canon in the end of evangelion new story.

-R/S: Rei and Shinji in a romantic sense was at its best in 2.0, after that Q totally shit on it, Q Rei will ethier play a similar role to what NGE Rei play or find a new purpose in living but it would be as Shinji's personal doll or lover (but I could be wrong :wink:).

- S/S : nope, it just seems wrong for Shinji who possibly killed for brother in start third impact to date her. "Oh hey toji, Im going to go ahead and start up third impact, kill you and destory the world all so 14 years from now I can date your prepubestic sister, bye".Seriously, there is no real foundation for an agrue for or against them and little to no interaction between the two, its purely fandom.

-M/S: yes, just yes.:devil:

Anyway, in the end there will no comforted pairing just a lack luster ending leaving fans to infer depending on hints given by the director what pairing most logical fits in the canon of the story.

I know one thing though, Shinji will fk all the b!tches.
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Postby unz » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:04 am

A couple of things, haven't read the thread but NGE was something sacrificed to what Anno cared about. Everything looked cool about it but it wasn't really about giant robot fights as you know, Idk about the tv channel swap but you could see the ideas before ep 14 were lingering around ready to explode later and everything took ages like those episodes about Toji becoming a pilot or the Kaji arc (he's like Misato's father and has a massively dangerous job, what could possibly go so wrong?).
If anything it's something very interesting to watch as it changes organically through the whole thing, introducing characters later (Asuka, Kaji and kaworu) for the sake of changing things and moods when they could've been there from the start.
I see the same things happening in rebuild, it's just 1.11 is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
The whole thing is sort of a retribution to those who got into eva for the action (I did) and mechas so yeah less mind wankery and more shootbang laserpew.
Which is fine.
And Asuka and Shinji's relationship is so direct it's fishy, it's the same scenes but they act pretty familiar to each other.
Last edited by unz on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Dima » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:09 am

View Original Postunz wrote:I see the same things happening in rebuild, it's just 1.11 is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
It's sort of a retribution to those who got into eva for the action and mechas so yeah less mind wankery and more shootbang laserpew.
And Asuka and Shinji's relationship is so direct it's fishy, it's the same scenes but they act pretty familiar to each other.


Well, many viewers found 1.11 boring and it's true because there was barely anything new. It's just the first episodes of evangelion into a single movie with new animation.

I don't understand what do you mean with ''fishy'' about the relationship between Asuka and Shinji. Like they are behaving like they known each other for a long time?
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Postby unz » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:16 am

View Original PostDima wrote:Well, many viewers found 1.11 boring and it's true because there was barely anything new. It's just the first episodes of evangelion into a single movie with new animation.

I don't understand what do you mean with ''fishy'' about the relationship between Asuka and Shinji. Like they are behaving like they known each other for a long time?


It's mostly details like him calling her Asuka of she getting in his futon deliberately.
Same scenes different behaviours and watching things again I'd probably find a little more details but yeah they look close.
I agree about 1.11 and I've been unfair because the shooter setup is there and the fights are nice but I didn't find them very over the top. Mostly because the angels tend to negate tactics and decision making. Eva vs evas is where it's at in evangelion.

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Postby Dima » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:19 am

View Original Postunz wrote:It's mostly details like him calling her Asuka of she getting in his futon deliberately.
Same scenes different behaviours and watching things again I'd probably find a little more details but yeah they look close..


Well, personally i think that in Rebuild, everyone is behaving in a better way compared to NGE or at least they were until 2.22.
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Postby unz » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:27 am

Well as far as relationships go Shinji doesn't call Ayanami with her first name (only in the eng dub near the end of the movie and that's confusing).
Will think about it

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:55 pm

For what it's worth, Funimation claimed post-2.0 that they'd have some workaround/something in mind if, say, in the Japanese version, Shinji finally refers to her as "Rei" since the English dub is first name basis.
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Postby SEELE » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:25 pm

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:Not to diss the possibility of romance at all, far from it, but who says you can't find love without romance involved? There are other kinds of love out there, and some people are happy with their lives being single.


Because this is the smallest unit of society - the bond between two people - not the individual as a solitary being (and i myself learned exactly this the hard way). This is what NGE made more than clear - that we define ourselfs by interacting with other people. And NGE/EoE goes as far as to say that we make those choices of purely on chemistry, sexuality and dependence (in Shinji and Asukas NGE case). A good example for this is the "grown up"-kiss, Asukas and Shinjis "Instrumentality" and many more clues from DC and so on. Of course this is a sci-fi action show with little slice of life elements - but please let us remember Annos other stuff like Nadia - fucking wedding. But i see you are joking, huh? :lol:

ITT :cringe:

Rei is to some extend still viable. Lets have a quick rundown shall we? So Rei II with Lilith Souls is dead by E23 and it is revealed that Rei get a incarnation with Rei III. And while there is practically no involvement with Shinji and her in EoE we can assume she is a ghost/trans-dimensional being. So how is this in any way good for EoE? Or Rei-shipping in general?
Look - Rei IV (2.0) is "saved" into Unit 01 with her own (Yui's) soul. Kaworu made this reference shortly before the FINAL battle in 3.0. So there is either closure or a possiblity that she is still "alive". The "Deep-Synchro-Ratio" of Shinji was at 0% - does that mean that Rei IV in Unit 01 is blocking Shinji's synch? This would explain the exposition of Ritsuko in the beginning in 3.0 and would be formidable pay-off for FINAL/Shin/3.0+1.0. If there is anything - a Rei/Shinji ship is more possible than in NGE BY FAR.
I don't understand how somebody who is srsly shipping Rei isn't aware of that. Also Kaworu is even more viable/fleshed out than in E24 - so more fanservice.
So final verdict for LRS: everything is better than expected, everything is better than the previous iteration/manga :rolleyes:
And i'm not a huge fan of LRS myself.

If they don't go for Asuka/Mari there is also a viable option for both Shinji and Asuka. But given the implication that Mari was mocking Asuka for looking after "Puppy-kun" i think she is shipping Shinji and Asuka. I doubt that she is in any sort of relevance other than something similiar to Kaji from NGE. So we either have closure on this with Mari and Kaji or we don't. But the point is Mari is introduced to us when normally Kaji would make an appearance. Instead we got Kaji and Mari - in which case this is symbolical for the nuturing behaviour towards Shinji. Wouldn't suprise me if Mari will have a serious talk with Shinji about her past and why she is dependend on adults. Which also perfectly fits the "Curse of Eva" stuff.

And Asuka reminds me of the AU from Episode 26. She is dragging Shinji along, even if he has something other in mind. Of course Shinji is better than her in every iteration - but this time Mari replaced (or supposed to be) the purpose of Shinji's and Asukas rivaly. This only indicates that the bond they made isn't superficial like in NGE for the most part. But truth to be told - romance is as trivial as Kaworu. If they involve some romance it should be Kaji and his debut in FINAL. That would be awesome.
I still take the guess that Asuka, Shinji, Rei and (???) are the last "Adams" - so you have more symbolism.
I really expect some "elevator grown up" kiss scene with Shinji in FINAL. Let it be Asuka, Mari or whatever. But Anno will bring this scene once again if we ever get to watch it. Or he will make 1 and a half movie and spend this additional half for preparing 3/4 different endings.

So everything is possible at this end. Intention of Anno to Shinji (and us) is that we all know that Rei (according to 3.0) is the clone of Yui. Figure this out yourself. Everything else is speculation or possible interpretation. But if anything - than that everything went better than expected. Especially for Rei shipper (not to mention the shots with Rei and Shinji) - and most of them aren't satisfied at this point and bitch about NTE while NGE was way more grim with Asuka.

View Original PostMr. Jive wrote:Looking at how Shinji behave in NGE, EOE and a bit in rebuild, seem like he want a girl to replace his dead mommy and have his way whit her just like he had his way whit Asuka in EOE. And can we please stop trying to turn Rei and Asuka into worthless love interest? They are warriors not Disney princess.


To be fair you could interpret it that way. But this counts for Shinji more than for the both of them. Especially in NTE. Shinji is by far an intentional heroic character but a damsel in distress in his deeds. This goes as far as to say that Shinji never really saved anyone - besides Asuka in Magmadiver (which is also once more deconstructed in 2.0). And this wasn't a "you are hopeless princess"-rescue. If anyone is a princess - then on a metaphorical level it is Shinji. The hell even 1.0 made it evidential that Rei is somewhat a guardian more than a princess that needed to be saved by Shinji (Momma Bear). What you actually did was reducing them to exactly that. Also the context is nice - especially for Megumi. Because this isn't the intention but merely a opinion. "Dependend" personality disorder implies that (in this case Shinji!NGE, Asuka!NGE and Shinji!NTE[only]) this are somewhat helpless princess. And the whole purpose of Rei was as you stated and quoted from Anno the Oedipal Complex - to what you should know the End.
And also Misato falls in this category especially for EoE. And lets not forget the passionate hate from anti-shippers or people who dislike Shinji!EoE.
Actually threads like that are wishfullfillment for a Shinji pair and not as you said worthless Asuka/Rei-shipping. Everyone wants Shinji to be happy and put him into a Peggy-Sue just to end up with the right girl. This isn't about Asuka or Rei - they could both be happy - this is and so i think - all around Shinji. He is the avatar of this show. We collectivly throw him to Asuka or Rei because he is so selfless that we can't bear him without them. If i had to analyze this - it would bring us to the conclusion that we all share Shinji as love-interest for either Asuka/Rei. And not the other way around.
Or let me make it more evidential, Shinji is a spineless, fearful and only intentional (heroic) little shit. Why would Asuka want him if it is not for the conveniance? Or the dead Rei II,III,IV? Why would we ship him? Because he can cook (especially because Asuka and Misato took care of themselfs)? In this over all relation - Shinji is the princess and the love-interest for everyone in this show. Even Kaji gets it. The only one who is not a relation to his mother is Asuka, and he choked, abused and caged her into submission (literally). The real-life-sequence (10min) implies that Asuka would end up with Toji and would be a Misato-Ripoff when Shinji wouldn't be around.
SPOILER: Show
ImageImage


EDIT: What i wanted to tell you guys - Rei shipping is viable because everything is different as in E23. Shinji is the love interest rather than the other girls (which is indicated by the rest of the cast who falls in love with Shinji one way or another). Shinji is actually more princess than the hero (causing 3 impacts so far). Please keep in mind that Anno likes this Nadia stuff (wouldn't mind if he makes FINAL a rip-off). As a more LAS-fan i have to admit that 3.0 left us with more rei-ship teasing than E23 did by completly killing Rei.
Shinji when one of his harem members acts out of line - Shinji chokes her, nearly kills her than shames her by masturbating over them only to recieve a "you are disgusting/i feel sick from this". I hope for overall closure to this Franchise and doubt that Rei/Shinji is in anyway possible - but Anno WILL suprise us once again.

Shinji is the son of the King of the Lilin. Which makes him a Prince. Asuka is called Princess instead of Rei ("Wondergirl") in 3.0. LAS confirmed.

LRS = Love Rei/Shinji (Rei shipping)
LAS = Love Asuka/Shinji
Last edited by SEELE on Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby unz » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:20 pm

I feel that's a lot of reading into it, Shinji did feel like a girl to me in 1.11 but he plays it as an incomplete hero and actually turns one only seeing Rei in distress. Rei will always, always take the chance to suicide for whatever reason so there's no future with her and Idk why her function should change because it creates a dynamic between the two kids, one taking danger and one protecting her, which develops actions and conflicts. It's super dynamic and fun when you see it, or far from boring at least, and it ended when Shinji started kicking ass to save Rei. Obviously Q follows and the ending sets Asuka as a new guide to Shinji, basically a new source of emotional conflict, Asuka could call herself out of romance but it would be missing a chance.
Btw I wouldn't know who to vote between the girls.
Does LRS stand for legit Rei Shinji or something?

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:07 pm

L = Love. Add other initials as required...
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Postby LightDragonman » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:54 pm

I'll just say this (at the risk of getting backlash).

The reason that I don't feel like Asuka and Shini should get together in the Rebuild saga is because they have about as much chemistry as I have with my math instructor here. In the original series, while I may not have supported them being together, I can at least see that they had something going on with each other. Their relationship was one of the main focal points of the show, and it build it up through multiple interactions and subtleties between the two. Here? They share maybe five or six scenes together that don't really have the same impact as before, so it feels far less natural.

Really, the relationship that has been getting development and focus this time around has been the one between Shinji and Rei. Throughout the previous three films, including 3.33, that relationship has been one of the main focuses of the saga, much like how Shinji and Asuka's relationship was a major part of the original. Even in the parts where Rei wasn't the defacto deuteragonist, she still had a major part in Shinji's growth, and vice-versa. At least, from what I've seen and analyzed.

Basically, I feel it would make more sense if the next film simply continues that development rather than trying to shoehorn in a pairing that hasn't had the same amount of focus or development. Not saying that Rei and Shinji have to end up together at the end (a TV series Madoka Magica-esque ending to it would work fine), but it just feels more natural than suddenly having Shinji be with Asuka. Again, the latter has practically no chemistry together at this point.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:07 am

Have you not noticed that the Rei he cared about is dead?

Really, the question of "Rei or Asuka (or Kaworu)?" in the new movies is best answered with "lolno". The only pairing that makes sense at this point is Marisuka.
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Postby xanderkh » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:20 am

^

Just because Marisuka is the most viable ship doesn't mean they won't invite him in for the threesome. Shin-Asu-Mari. XD
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---------------------------------------
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Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:22 am

Shinji won't end up with anyone from the current Rebuild cast. The narrative has tossed that aside.

Focus less on the sex lives of fictional characters & pay attention to your own personal sex life. It's more rewarding.


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