Rei or Asuka?

The fate of SPOILERS is also the joy of speculation.
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:31 pm

She only does it in 2 during her "loner's gotta be alone" phase

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:58 pm

@ Bags

In his mind, Anno portrayed Shinji as completely irredeemable in 3.0 and he doesn't care about what any of us have to say about it unless it's a constant string of reassurances that everything is gonna be alright. Deep down he's just hates the way Shinji was treated and complains about it by saying Anno hates Shinji.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:02 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Shinji is 28 too, just because someone is in a coma doesn't mean that they stop aging.

It's pretty heavily implied that Shinji lost his body for that time. You need to have a body to be in a coma. Or to age, for that matter.
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Postby Ray » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:37 pm

Should I PM my answer to Bags or post on another Thread? I don't want to derail this further than I already have.

But I reiterate, if you still think Shinji's getting out of this alive (with or without a romantic relationship, that's irrelevant) . . . keep smokin' and passing it around!

If he does get out of this, Sakura is probably the best Candidate.
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Postby Bagheera » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:41 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:In his mind, Anno portrayed Shinji as completely irredeemable in 3.0 and he doesn't care about what any of us have to say about it unless it's a constant string of reassurances that everything is gonna be alright.


Right, but my point is that that doesn't match up with reality at all. In the real world people will forgive just about anything for someone they love, even if they don't deserve it. If they do deserve it? There are no limits, man. That's how things work in the real world. Victims forgive their rapists, parents forgive the murderers of their children, cats and dogs lie down with one another in peace. Virtually anything is possible so long as the victims have the Grace to look beyond their circumstances and see true repentance in the eyes of their foes. And if the enemy did his thing unintentionally, and never intended to hurt anyone? Holy crap, man, the line for absolution is miles long.

The notion that Shinji is unforgivable is absurd, man. It flies in the face of reality on several different levels.
Last edited by Bagheera on Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:53 pm

^
He doesn't care about the real world in relation to a fictional one, all he sees is that Shinji was treated badly therefore he is irredeemable to the people around him and to the audience.
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Postby The Cruel » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:58 pm

@Ray

By all the terror Shinji went trough, he should start to fight against it and find his peace. His role in Final would be like in Oldboy or like in First Blood. I don't expect from him to do heroric things but at least he could try it once more even if he gets his hands dirty again. When there is one thing I am furios about Rebuild, then its because this story isn't finished and that Shinji will face many other horrors until the end. And if there is one villain he can resemble then its Frank Zito from Maniac. What is in common between them is their social isolation and their issues with women.

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Postby MarqFJA87 » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:27 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:It doesn't add anything. This notion that Rei has to be a 100% clone of Yui before the squick sets in is a non-starter.

I fail to see where I ever stated or implied "Rei has to be a 100% clone of Yui before the squick sets".

That's hedging, nothing more. You might as well say the same about fucking your sister.

Except that in this case it's not clear if Rei is even genetically close enough to be his sister, or even cousin. The human part of her genome was derived from Yui, that much we figured; nobody ever clarified whether she has enough of Yui's genetic material to be genetically similar enough to count as incest.

Priorities she's had for four billion years. Come on, man.

... And? Lilith doesn't seem to have been awake for much of that time period. I mean, they managed to imprison her in Terminal Dogma -- which is in the very heartland of Japan -- without anywhere near the massive clusterfuck that was the disastrous Contact Experiment in Antarctica. Without the Spear of Longinus (which was only acquired around the time the 10th Angel arrived), might I add. And NOBODY outside of Nerv and Seele was aware of her existence at all, beyond perhaps wondering where the "2nd Angel" went if Adam was #1 and Sachiel, which appeared 15 years after Adam, was designated #3.

And even if we were to assume that Lilith was indeed awake for that much time, that says nothing about her ability to change her priorities (or lack thereof) unless we know just how many opportunities did she have to change them, what were the reasons and alternatives, and why she declined to change, then compare them with what Rei 3 herself had faced after she merged with Lilith in EOE. For all we know, she never was actually confronted with anything that Rei herself did that could convince her to adopt a different set of priorities.

CI for NGE, Q for ENT series.

That's not helpful. When I say citation, I am expecting at least a quotation of the relevant text/dialogue, in the most accurate available version of translation.

Yeah, not really. Until we see some indication that her status will change it still puts the kibosh on the pairing.

By what logic?

No, she can't. That's rather explicitly not her role in NGE.

And what, may I ask, is this role that you speak of?

The fact she actually appears to Shinji -- as a ghost -- after he emerges from the LCL makes this abundantly clear.

No, it does not. We do not know whether that ghostly Rei is indeed Rei herself manifesting to Shinji, or just a figment of his imagination as residue of his Instrumentality experience. And even assuming the former, that doesn't really say anything concrete. Besides, according to this very wiki, this ghostly Rei may very well be an astral projection of Rei 3 from any point in time between her merger with Lilith and... well, the most distant point in the present/future in which Rei 3 still retains her godlike powers.
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Postby NemZ » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:39 pm

[s]The quote abuse in this thread needs to stop. Marq & Bags, this means you.[/s]

Okay, so maybe I didn't notice the jump in dates when skimming over this. :facepalm: Nevermind...
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:44 pm

What the hell? What quote abuse? I haven't done anything of the sort since February, and even then I used spoilers. What are you on about?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:22 pm

Seemed to be a mistake on his part!

-----

As I've said before, I think "shipping" of some kind could be a plausible post-credits mini time-skip thing, but not before then.

I just can't see my happy post-2.0 (this was pre-3.0 release ideas) dinner party scenario happening anymore :( Gendo and Shinji reconciliation alongside Nerv (now Wille) crew in memory of Rei 2....Though, 3.0 Rei could likely take Rei 2's place of being the happy family link!
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:25 am

While I can see Shinji reconciling with the Wille crew, and I can see Shinji reconciling with Gendo in NGE (indeed, I'll be writing that very scene soon for Ghosts), I can't see Shinji reconciling with Gendo post-Q. Gendo just went too damn far in Q, effectively crossing the moral event horizon to the point where no amount of plot contrivance can bring him back.

But ReiQ being a ticket to Shinji's redemption, or the means by which he salvages things with Wille? That I can definitely see. Asuka blames him, Misato questions him, everyone's skeptical, and Rei-Q just sits there and says "no, that was not Ikari-kun's intent." And then everyone breathes a sigh of relief, since they wanted to forgive him but just needed an excuse . . .
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:37 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Rei-Q just sits there and says "no, that was not Ikari-kun's intent." And then everyone breathes a sigh of relief, since they wanted to forgive him but just needed an excuse . . .

But how will Rei-Q get that level of acceptance by Wille? To them she's an ignorant clone who doesn't even understand her own motivation at this point; even if she takes Asuka's and Mari's jibes about choice on board, they don't give her any authority.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:38 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:But how will Rei-Q get that level of acceptance by Wille? To them she's an ignorant clone who doesn't even understand her own motivation at this point; even if she takes Asuka's and Mari's jibes about choice on board, they don't give her any authority.


But that's rather the point; she's so damn clueless she can't even begin to lie, and everyone else knows that, so . . .
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:41 am

I like. I could totally see such a scenario happening on board the Wunder, too. :)

And yeah, NTE Gendo = too far off the deep end. I can't even see his ideas being for "humanity's greater good", as some have speculated awhile back, I think. He'd just come across as wacko Seele. Sad, when even EoE Gendo could have a possible reconciliation post-3I, if done right.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:47 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:And yeah, NTE Gendo = too far off the deep end. I can't even see his ideas being for "humanity's greater good", as some have speculated awhile back, I think. He'd just come across as wacko Seele. Sad, when even EoE Gendo could have a possible reconciliation post-3I, if done right.


:rolleyes: Fine, twist my arm. I'd been kicking the idea around already, so I guess I'll have to do it now.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:47 pm

You mean in your ficcy? I was just talking out loud here!
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:13 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:You mean in your ficcy? I was just talking out loud here!


Yeah. When you combine "post-3I" with "done right" it's like catnip for me. No way I can resist at least making the attempt!
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Mr. Jive » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:48 pm

Not everbody is so forgiving. I don't see Misato letting him fight alongside her ever again. Shinji has rage quite on her too many times and has gotten her kill too many times. She is not gonna entrust the safety of her warriors and her crew to a loser that abandon her along whit his female pilots in 2.0 and EOE. You don't know what you gonna get from this dude. He too unstable, too unreliable and not even human. Of course his eye glowing like megatron is enough to tell you that.


As for the question? Here something I fond on the net.

Q: Who does Shinji like? Rei or Asuka?
Megumi: Both.. but I DON'T think he really likes either.

And then there this.

Nagisa Kaworu The fifth Eva pilot whom Seele sent in. To Shinji, he was both the very first friend he could confide in as well as a same-sex romantic interest. On the account of his true nature as an “Angel”, he attempts to merge with the First Angel, Adam, ensconced in Nerv’s underground, to trigger Third Impact. Driven at the far end of his anguish, Shinji kills that beloved friend of his with Eva Unit-01.


And this.

Anno: Ai to Gensou no Fascism. [Murakami’s The Fascism of Love and Fantasy or The Fascism of Love and Illusion] I like “Zero” [from that novel]. He is a highly dependent personality. I think Ryuu Murakami and I are the same [as Zero]: empty people. Really pathetic people.
Takekuma: His writing style is very stylish. [His books are] the type you keep reading because of the style.
Anno: In the end, there’s nothing else. It’s pathetic people trying to maintain themselves, living dependently on women.
Takekuma: So, the character Zero is Murakami’s own self-projection.
Anno: He remains unable to reject Zero. That also reveals a pathetic quality; the man himself aims at the opposite, but in the end part of his true feelings come out through Zero. It’s an amazingly good novel. I think Murakami is also an “oral stage” dependent type. He is overly fixated on the mother, and overly fixated on women. He is also fixated on the idea of crying into a woman’s chest. Finally, he is always thinking of doing away with his father. I think it’s a story of the Oedipus Complex.
Takekuma: In the desire to destroy the system, the original desire is there, right?
Anno: Yes. It’s a story of the Oedipus Complex, where one kills one’s father and violates one’s mother. However, when I started [Eva], I thought I was the same. Because it [was?] a story where Shinji kills his father and steals his mother from him.
Takekuma: A mother who has become a giant (laughs).
Anno: There was this replacement by a robot, so the original mother is the robot, but then there is a mother of the same age, Rei Ayanami, by [Shinji’s] side. [She is] also by the side of the real father. There is also another father there, Adam, who governs the overall course of events. An Oedipus Complex within these multiple structures; that’s what I wanted to do. Ai to Gensou no Fascism. I think there are ideological elements that are the same as those in the novel. […] The thing that most moved me was [the fact that] when the protagonist, Touji Suzuhara, attempted to kill the current Prime Minister, he felt [the Prime Minister] was a lot like his father. I think he kills his father and violates the mother “Japan.” That’s why he goes on to destroy Japan. I really like that passage. I like that Ryuu Murakami’s real feelings are coming out. In a big way. The novel itself is extremely boring, however (laughs).

Looking at how Shinji behave in NGE, EOE and a bit in rebuild, seem like he want a girl to replace his dead mommy and have his way whit her just like he had his way whit Asuka in EOE. And can we please stop trying to turn Rei and Asuka into worthless love interest? They are warriors not Disney princess.
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Postby pwhodges » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:09 pm

View Original PostMr. Jive wrote:Here something I fond on the net.

Finding things on the net is OK up to a point - but you need to put them in context, as any one thing is likely to be worthless unless you can find sufficient corroboration.

Driven at the far end of his anguish, Shinji kills that beloved friend of his with Eva Unit-01.

He kills the last angel; it's his job to kill angels. The angel, that we know as Kaworu, has made it hard for him to do his job, but in the end he does.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Incidentally, where did the age one-upmanship come from?)
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: "Don't take Rei!" (details); Past avatars.
Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)


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