Was Shinji aware of the repercussions of his actions in 2.0?

[JUSTINBAILEY]

I read an article on the EvaGeeks wiki discussing whether or not Shinji knew he was initiating third impact at the end of the second movie. The article pointed out many points for both sides, there seemed to be more evidence however that he DID know what he was doing. Does anyone know where I could find that page on the wiki? I'm having trouble locating it and would like to re-read it. Thank you!

[xyz346]

His overall reaction in 3.0 to the reveals of what his stunt in Unit-01 meant for the world suggests that he was unaware.

[pwhodges]

I don't recall the article; but there have been many discussions of this in the forum, to the extent that it feels rather played out.

I would say that it is clear that he did not know; but the arguments in the forum tend to obscure that by focussing on the question of how much responsibility and guilt he should bear for the (most likely) unexpected and unpredictable consequences of what were, however, undeniably his actions.

[JUSTINBAILEY]

I was just having a discussion with my friends on the topic when I remembered the article and looked back through my browser history to no avail. Just wanted to find a compilation of evidence for him knowing what he was doing since me and all my friends were in agreeance that he didn't know that he was starting Third Impact while he was saving Rei.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

If you pay attention to Shinji's entry plug displays, he couldn't even see what he was doing. However he was operating Unit 01 went well beyond training and became pure instinct coming from syncing with Eva on the level he did. (The entry plug displays in this scene might give insight to how an Eva senses things.)

Because Shinji was interacting on that level with Eva for the first time, it's not surprising tha he wouldn't be aware of how or even why his actions effect the rest of the world around him.

I'm sure the article in question sited Shinji's "I don't care about the world," statement in support of an evil Shinji interpretation if the scene. But to quote 12 Angry Men when one angry jurer threatens to kill another in the heat of an argument, "You don't really mean that." Q proves this idea with Shinji's reaction to how much the world has changed since his absence. Regardless of whether or not he caused the outcome revealed in Q, it's still appetent that he didn't want the world to get as screwed up as it did, therefore we can conclude that Shinji didn't want nor intentionally aim for the destruction of the world.

[pwhodges]

Just wanted to find a compilation of evidence for him knowing what he was doing

The only thing that can be taken as evidence of that is what he said in the heat of the moment. And there's a very big difference between not caring and wanting something catastrophic to happen!

My take on that remark is given in my fanfic, when Misato is interrogating him on the whole matter.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

^ We used to have a big old, very heated thread debating the topic. It's funny what a little time and about 96 extra minutes of animation will accomplish.

[one-eyed]

I never thought he knew, not even Misato knew what was going on while accompanying the outside of the events until be too late.

In addition to Gendo and Fuyutsuki, who actively wanted this outcome, only Ritsuko knew the possibility, but she did not alert anyone before. I think it was the catch phrase about not caring about yourself and the world that generated this comment. The Shinji haters I know are among the most passionate people in their hatred I know!

I cannot throw stones at Shinji because I said many times (and often hear) similar phrases and I would try to save Rei also. I cannot be hypocritical in this case.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Not sure if that list was a thread or a wiki article proper (there were TONS of Shinji's actions thread post-2.0 though!), but given 3.0 it especially seems Shinji wasn't aware and said things in heat of the moment. Since his priority in 2.0 was saving Rei. Selfish, yes, but he clearly wanted to atone in some manner throughout the whole 3.0 film, especially for those close to him like Misato.

[unitM]

It was definitely out of Shinji's bounds. Not once did he stop himself and say "holy shit, I'm reaching through some sort of big, black void to save Rei."

FFF4E, do you have images of the displays? I never really had a look at them... but you mentioning there being something there piques my interest. (Unless you're talking about Ritsuko's displays, where it simply showed Shinji getting closer to the core of 01)

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

FFF4E, do you have images of the displays? I never really had a look at them... but you mentioning there being something there piques my interest. (Unless you're talking about Ritsuko's displays, where it simply showed Shinji getting closer to the core of 01)

Yes! Yes I do!

Here’s what Shinji sees as N3I is happening:

SPOILER: Show

And then the movie uses a graphic-match edit in order to subconsciously link in the viewer’s mind that Shinji and Unit 01 working through and perceiving things in the same way:

SPOILER: Show

And then, back within Unit 01, Shinji hears Rei speak, and we see something change in the Entry plug:

SPOILER: Show

A very important thing to note here is that every time Rei speaks to Shinji, we see the sound waves of her dialogue manifest in white rings.

SPOILER: Show

They only show up when Rei speaks, and her audible speech is timed so that you can’t hear it until these white sound waves pass over Shinji. Also, the audio of Rei’s dialogue isn’t futzed (AKA, the audio isn’t edited) to make it sound as though it were coming through radio transmission, like all pilot communication within Eva has sounded in the past. Rather, it’s a sound that is reaching Shinji without the aid of radio technology. This indicates, along with the fact that these rings originate at that purple spot in the middle where Rei is later revealed to be, that these white rings are the sound waves from Rei’s actual speech, and not visualized radio signals or just some weird and random visual amidst the mess. Because of that, the only way to rationalize why Shinji is seeing sound waves in this fashion is because that’s how the Eva senses Rei. Shinji wouldn’t be able to sense in this way otherwise, a point made clearer than ever by juxtaposing this with Misato and everyone else only being able o sense these things through their computer graphs.

SPOILER: Show

The color palette choices used by the filmmakers throughout the scene very much match the emotional state felt by Shinji, and since Shinji is 400% synced with Unit 01, these emotions are most likely also being felt by the Eva Unit herself. Also note that in many of the shots we can still see the seating and “dashboard” of the Entry Plug in the purple setting as well. It isn’t until Shinji physically crawls out of it himself that the seat disappears all together.

SPOILER: Show

Angel’s core breaking as Unit 01 and Shinji see it:

SPOILER: Show

Angel’s core breaking as shown in a physical state:

SPOILER: Show

Everyone’s happy now! (Sort of.)

SPOILER: Show

Edit: This also shows that Shinji couldn’t see the world blowing up around him at the time. And since both he and the Eva Unit were focused on Rei, neither of them probably noticed it either.

[unitM]

I agree with everything you're saying but one thing FFF. I don't think Shinji or 01 were visually seeing the same things. The colour scheme similarities are definitely there. 01 and Shinji were definitely feeling the same thing. I think that's to be expected with the plug depth that Shinji reached and the sync ratio we saw.

But Shinji and 01 did completely different things. 01 walked through Eva physics to defeat an angel After that, 01 hunched over it's core like a serial masturbator on his 19th round, apparently doing some sort of magic surgery on the angel's core(and knowing exactly what to do).

Shinji went berserk, found Rei, and pulled her out of enemy territory because friendship.

Evidently, 01 was in the physical realm, while Shinji was not. 01 dug through the core and found Rei. Shinji saw is and aided in the process by removing Rei from he metaphysical gunk on his end. Because of the sync ratio, this was timed with 01 as well and boom.

I think the real question is, where did 01 get the orders to do this from? I noticed Rei's nature throughout the movie goes from conservative to brave. Gendou also changes up her pills as the movie progresses. But ultimately, the question is, why did 01 do surgery on the Angels core, instead of straight crushing it? If it took orders from Shinji, how did it know to go exactly about it? And why was initiating an impact so ok with 01?

[Lennik]

I agree with everything you're saying but one thing FFF. I don't think Shinji or 01 were visually seeing the same things. The colour scheme similarities are definitely there. 01 and Shinji were definitely feeling the same thing. I think that's to be expected with the plug depth that Shinji reached and the sync ratio we saw.

But Shinji and 01 did completely different things. 01 walked through Eva physics to defeat an angel After that, 01 hunched over it's core like a serial masturbator on his 19th round, apparently doing some sort of magic surgery on the angel's core(and knowing exactly what to do).

Shinji went berserk, found Rei, and pulled her out of enemy territory because friendship.

Evidently, 01 was in the physical realm, while Shinji was not. 01 dug through the core and found Rei. Shinji saw is and aided in the process by removing Rei from he metaphysical gunk on his end. Because of the sync ratio, this was timed with 01 as well and boom.

I think the real question is, where did 01 get the orders to do this from? I noticed Rei's nature throughout the movie goes from conservative to brave. Gendou also changes up her pills as the movie progresses. But ultimately, the question is, why did 01 do surgery on the Angels core, instead of straight crushing it? If it took orders from Shinji, how did it know to go exactly about it? And why was initiating an impact so ok with 01?

This sounds like fanfiction. Nowhere is it implied in the movie that Unit 01 was acting on its own.

[Gendo'sPapa]

He was aware of what he was doing - saving Ayanami - but he was absolutely unaware of the consequences of his actions - destroying the world or starting the unstoppable Domino Effect that destroyed the world.

Happens all the time both in fiction & in the real world. We can rarely see the consequences of our actions. One act of kindness / aggression / love, etc could lead to anything down the line.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

^ Agreed.

And, as far as Unit 01's actions go, I don't think we should be so quick to overlook what "400% sync ratio" means. If Shinji's synced that well with Yui, their actions and/or intents are probably tightly knit together.

[Rei IV]

He was aware of what he was doing - saving Ayanami - but he was absolutely unaware of the consequences of his actions - destroying the world or starting the unstoppable Domino Effect that destroyed the world.

Happens all the time both in fiction & in the real world. We can rarely see the consequences of our actions. One act of kindness / aggression / love, etc could lead to anything down the line.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.... as they say

[unitM]

This sounds like fanfiction. Nowhere is it implied in the movie that Unit 01 was acting on its own.

Was it implied that Shinji directly commanded 01 to reach into an Angel's core and save Rei? Did Shinji command 01 to break the laws of physics to save Rei? Not really. Because it's stuff 01 did. Maybe the intent was to save Rei, but Shinji didn't exactly command 01 to start an impact. That was stuff 01 did out of her own behaviour.

[pwhodges]

Maybe the intent was to save Rei, but Shinji didn't exactly command 01 to start an impact. That was stuff 01 did out of her own behaviour.

But alternatively, consider that one command can have different effects, intended and not, at the same time. Consider, when driving, swerving to successfully avoid an oncoming car, and then crashing as a result of the swerve being too severe and causing a skid.

[Lennik]

Was it implied that Shinji directly commanded 01 to reach into an Angel's core and save Rei? Did Shinji command 01 to break the laws of physics to save Rei?

Uh . . . yeah.

[unitM]

Uh . . . yeah.

i think you misunderstand what I am saying. (Though I missed the word "implied")

When pilots get in the cockpit of an eva, they're first trained on how to use them. After training they learn the controls on the robot. However Eva ripped the whole computer out of its system when he was saving Rei.

Now obviously I know at some level 01 acknowledged Shinjis wish and went to save Rei. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Shinji hit a few buttons on his pilot seat that said "dig into this Angels core and save Rei."

01, and by extension, Shinji, saves Rei, sure. And we're obviously told that it was done on Shinji's wish. But the way it was done wasn't something that Shinji wished for - what I'm saying is, that was done from 01s part.