Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Ray » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:58 pm

It contains a white male lead who saves China because he fancies Mulan.


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Less of the huge image macros, if you please.
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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby El Squibbonator » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:06 pm

Oh, it gets better. It's a little-known fact that the animated Mulan movie was originally going to be a very different movie called China Doll, which was about. . . wait for it. . . a European prince visiting China and rescuing/marrying a Chinese princess. Needless to say, this proposal was rejected, and we got the movie we have instead.
So in doing this, Disney is essentially taking a step backwards 20 years!
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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Ray » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:09 pm

Guy Ritchie to Direct ‘Aladdin’ Live-Action Movie for Disney

http://variety.com/2016/film/news/guy-r ... 201883799/

I'd like to say this would be a great opportunity for a Middle Eastern actor to be the hero in the lead role, but I doubt they'll cast actual ethnically middle eastern people, given this Mulan controversy.
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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby El Squibbonator » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:11 pm

If there's one good thing that results from all of this, it's that sooner or later Disney is going to run out of movies to remake and be forced to make something original.
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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Chuckman » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:21 pm

They're going to remake basically everything they want to keep the intellectual property rights to, so I wouldn't worry about that happening any time soon.

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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Ray » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:25 pm

^Aladdin, Mulan, etc. are all in the public domain. . .
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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:27 pm

Fascinating. So, tell me more about the sins of these live-action movies that don't exist yet.

View Original PostEl Squibbonator wrote:Oh, it gets better. It's a little-known fact that the animated Mulan movie was originally going to be a very different movie called China Doll, which was about. . . wait for it. . . a European prince visiting China and rescuing/marrying a Chinese princess. Needless to say, this proposal was rejected, and we got the movie we have instead.
So in doing this, Disney is essentially taking a step backwards 20 years!

If anything this could be considered evidence that Disney will rewrite a more faithful Mulan narrative into the script they've currently bought. Also, why are we crucifying Disney for choices they decided not to make? Of all of the way to waste your time, that seems like the most pointless one.

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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Chuckman » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:30 pm

The concepts are, specific depictions are not.

I can use Frankenstein is a character in a work of fiction (the monster or the doctor, if we must be pedantic) and as a matter of fact, I have used the monster in a character in a book I published.

However, if I depict or describe him as green, with a flat head, and with bolts in his neck, Universal Pictures can sue me.

DIsney can and will go after people for naming the Beauty character Belle even though it just means beauty, etc. etc. Any resemblance at all to their characters is enough. Also, Disney tends to make a lot of changes to the fairy tales that then enter the public consciousness and become associated with it regardless of the original story, and Disney owns those changes, which is quite valuable as they basically monetize the public consciousness.

Also, especially when it comes to IP, trademark, and copyright, whoever has the most money wins, which is why DIsney can rampantly rip off designs and plots from anime but if it went the other way around, the other person would be boned.

Fighting Disney means fighting a massive legal team in court battles that cost huge amounts of money and last for years or even decades. Remaking all these movies gives them more oomph if they need to take somebody to court, they've reestablished their ownership over those characters.

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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Ray » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:34 pm

^To be fair, they're still in pre-production so the Final product could have an Entirely Asian cast (or middle eastern cast). But given the track record for these kinds of movies I highly doubt it.
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Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:13 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:But given the track record for these kinds of movies I highly doubt it.

You mean the track record of live-action Disney remake movies set in far-east Asia? We don't have a track record for that yet. LA Mulan will be the first.

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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Ray » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:56 pm

Disney kills the rumor weed.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/10/fans-don ... -lead.html

"The spec script was a jumping-off point for a new take on the story that draws from both the literary ballad of Mulan and Disney’s 1998 animated film, Mulan is and will always be the lead character in the story, and all primary roles, including Mulans love interest, are Chinese."


Dodged that bullet. Good for you Disney.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Tumbling Down » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:27 pm

Are they going to hire non-Chinese Asians and cast them as Chinese? They'll probably have to, since putting "Asian" as their qualifier already limits their casting pool, and making "Chinese" another qualifier would do so moreso. I also hope they do, because Ken Jeong would be great as Chi-Fu, or anyone, really. I like Ken Jeong.

View Original PostRay wrote:Disney kills the rumor weed.

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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Ray » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:48 pm

Are they going to hire non-Chinese Asians and cast them as Chinese?


Probably not, given even decades and centuries after the fact relationships between various Asian peoples has been . . . strained at best, and outright poisonous at worst.

China, Korea, and Taiwan hate Japan for the Sino-Japanese war/WW2, Taiwan hates China for exiling Sun Yat Sen, Japan hates China for trying to invade them in Samurai times and due to cultural bias most people in developed Asian countires don't see Asian-Americans as 'true Asians'.

I said it less than a few posts ago, one of the biggest reasons Memoirs Of a Geisha bombed in the Asian market was because it cast Chinese actresses as historical Japanese characters. But that also applies to other movies. Ken Watanabe was John Woo's first choice to play Chinese Historical figure General Cao-Cao in 'Red Cliff', but the Chinese Government got their mitts into his pie and forced him to cast a Chinese actor.

As for Hollywood studio's portraying an Asian character in a movie intended for the Asian Market is a. . . tenuous thing. If you cast a Korean American to play a Chinese character, then the Chinese market is not going to let your movie be shown in theaters and the studio loses money. If you cast a Mainland Chinese actor to play a Japanese or Korean character. The Japanese/Korean Market isn't going to pay money to go see your movie if it's shown in their market.

I believe that's the reason Dreamworks whitewashed GITS, if they cast a Japanese actress, they'd lose Chinese audiences. If they cast a Chinese actor they'd lose the Japanese audience. But foreign Markets (usually) come to see movies starring white American actors,

TLDR?

Cultural divides and racism against other Asians will keep Disney from casting Non-Chinese for the role of Mulan and other characters.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Squigsquasher » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:16 am

So basically, no matter what you do, SOMEONE is going to throw a tantrum over it.

Personally I think remaking Mulan is a stupid idea. I understand WHY they're doing it (MUH IP RENEWALS and all) but I don't like it. I enjoyed the original Mulan (which was admittedly years ago so I don't remember most of it) and I really, REALLY don't think it needs remaking. I'm glad at least they're doing it in live-action as opposed to remaking it in CG animation or something, but still.

Personally I'm less worried about Mulan having a love interest who helps her save China (Correct me if I'm wrong but she had a love interest in the original anyway) and more concerned about who the villains are going to be. Given how much influence communist China tends to have over things these days I wouldn't be surprised if they replaced the Huns with those eeeeeeeeeebil Japanese...which would be rather amusing considering that the Chinese were the ones who invaded Japan in ancient times. But hey, the Chinese have never let little things like history get in the way of a good self-pitying circlejerk.

As for GITS, anime movies can IMO get away far more easily with casting non-Japanese actors as quite frankly, anime characters rarely look like any particular ethnicity anyway. GITS is more "realistic" than most anime admittedly, but the Major still doesn't even look that Japanese. And that's before you even get into the whole deal with her being in a personalized cyborg body, which could look like whatever she wants. Now there's some anime where really a live-action production should have Japanese casting; Gunbuster, being set in a Japan-centric future, should have a Japanese actress playing Noriko, and stuff like Ninja Scroll and the like would work best with Japanese casting because, well, they're set in ancient Japan. To be honest though, the best solution to that would be for the Japanese to make the films.

Quite frankly as long as the film is good I'm not particularly bothered.
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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Gob Hobblin » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:43 pm

I would not be opposed to seeing a remade animated Mulan, but that has less to do with wanting to see the story retold and more with how I feel that Disney has both underutilized it's traditional animation department in recent years, and that I'd love to see Disney try to make an actual, adult story with animation rather than try to hit all the age brackets at once.
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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Ray » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:52 pm

SCALPED. The adaptation of the hit Vertigo comic book. Will feature a majority Native American cast.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/02/11 ... ped-pilot/
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby El Squibbonator » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:47 am

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote: I'd love to see Disney try to make an actual, adult story with animation rather than try to hit all the age brackets at once.

Fat chance.
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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Ray » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:26 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 20031.html

The Aladdin remake will have a mostly Middle Eastern in the lead cast.

Thank God this is a remake of one of my favorite movies the last thing I wanted was a Ghost in the Shell or Prince of Persia controversy surrounding it.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby pwhodges » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:04 pm

Judge the film, not the controversy.
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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

Postby Ray » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:05 pm

Speaking of controversy.

Parks Canada has denied a film permit to a Liam Neeson. Movie. The Reason? They object to the portrayal of an "Aboriginal Canadian" playing the movies villain.

And unlike other cases of censorship where it's public pressure, this is right from the hand of the Canadian government itself.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/entertainm ... -1.3319267

The First Nations actor who is playing the villain. Called this out as the BS it is.

Villainous roles are great gateways for actors of any skin tone to break into the mainstream. So putting actual government pressure on Productions to not have brown skin people as villains in my opinion may actually hurt the careers of non-white actors more than help.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman


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