It was a long, long way back now; but some people interpreted the backgrounds of Shirou Sagisu's Peaceful Times (F02) petit film as possibly being storyboards for the start of the next film. They show scenes which appear to be the three pilots travelling through the wrecked landscape, across railway tracks, and past FOIs, possibly on a horse. But we could have been wrong, or the film could have changed unrecognisably even since then.
Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?
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- pwhodges
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It was a long, long way back now; but some people interpreted the backgrounds of Shirou Sagisu's Peaceful Times (F02) petit film as possibly being storyboards for the start of the next film. They show scenes which appear to be the three pilots travelling through the wrecked landscape, across railway tracks, and past FOIs, possibly on a horse. But we could have been wrong, or the film could have changed unrecognisably even since then.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
- Mario_Abel
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ElMariachi wrote:Exactly! There's a lot of things to cover in Shin Eva, so wasting such a great opportunity for character development by skipping it directly to when they reach safety would be a waste.
Besides I don't really see the point to make it so the trio are stranded in a desert with nothing else to do but walk and talk if it's to not use it in Shin Eva, in this case it would had been better to have Shinji's entry plug retrieved by Mari and Asuka and Rei Q retrieved by the Wunder to get directly to the next scene in Shin Eva.
Also, the way the preview talked of that place that Shinji will arrives to that will bring him hope, it will be a very important moment in the movie, so better have it build up by an initial scene of the trio walking in the seemingly endless desert to have it have a bigger impact when they reach whatever that place will be, and of course while they're on it, better use these scenes in the desert to develop a little the characters.
I agree! I hope we can get a nice trailer before the end of the year. That preview didn't do much justice for me.
Acceptance.
- pwhodges
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ElMariachi wrote:the way the preview talked of that place that Shinji will arrives to that will bring him hope, it will be a very important moment in the movie, so better have it build up by an initial scene of the trio walking in the seemingly endless desert to have it have a bigger impact when they reach whatever that place will be
It could alternatively be that Shinji's arrival is not at the end of the initial trek, but at a later point in the film after various other things have beset him. Hope might be the final destination of the film, pointing to an unshown future (as the end of EoE).
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
TheFriskyIan wrote:Good question, her comment is completely asinine and shows any lack of care for her actions previously. Not only does she not care about the fact that she tried to kill him which could lead to the fact that he wouldn't help in until Hell freezes over, but also the fact that her attitude problem in not talking out things rationally with Shinji led him to become desperate and pull the spears. I honestly can not comprehend what went on in Asuka's mind when she said that because it makes absolutely no sense from the perspective of both characters. Why would he help you if you tried to kill him? If he's such an worthless little shit like you claim he is, why even ask for his help if you're just going to treat him like trash?
Because Shinji doesn't have your biases and Asuka knows this.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
- TheFriskyIan
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Let's look at the sequence of events:
1. Shinji stops moving Eva 13
2. Asuka is still attacking him
3. Shinji asks why she's attacking him (Thus showing that he is willing to talk things out, willing to listen.
What happens next? Asuka still attacks him and refuses to acknowledge his willingness to listen. For what reason afterwards does Shinji have to not only listen to her when she clearly denied that earlier when it mattered, but to even go as far as help her after she so violently attacked him when she could have stopped and talked out her point of view instead of yelling him to stop with no answers while attacking him.
Shinji has no reason to go help her. Even if Kaworu hadn't died and shattered him emotionally, he has no justifiable excuse to go "Well yeah, she tried to kill me but ya know...." But this is clearly the bias in me and not a common sense point of view. The next time someone attacks me, I'll be sure to go help them out of a bind so that they can chew me out some more.
Please just call me Ian, "TheFrisky" is more of a title.
"Knowledge seeks no Man."
"Knowledge seeks no Man."
Let's not. It's clear that both her assumptions and Shinji's are different than yours, so at that point we look at the characters and their motivations and leave our interpretations behind. Look at what's actually being said, not at what you think is reasonable.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
- Monk Ed
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You make it sound even worse -- like they have an abusive relationship and Asuka feels entitled to Shinji's help regardless of whatever shit she throws at him and however little compassion she shows him for his situation.
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"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
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- TheFriskyIan
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"What are you doing Asuka?! Aren't those the Spears of hope?"
"Stop looking for trouble! Baka-Shinji! Are you trying to start Third Impact again?!"
Now at this point a number of questions and comments could have come up from both pilots which would have resulted in a understanding and more of a willingness for Shinji to help Asuka. But just insulting him while not explaining her point of view AND continuing attacking him isn't going to do her much good when she asks why he didn't help her.
So once again we return to the big question of the thread: Why does Asuka expect Shinji to help her? Because he knows her and they used to be friends? Not only was that 14 years ago, but she has shown both in the first half of the movie and the second half that their previous friendship means nothing to her so why should he still cling to it? Because he's not a heartless prick? That way be true, but he is emotionally wrecked at this point (Something she doesn't know about and just assumes he didn't help her because he's self-centered) he's in no position to help anybody when he needs the most help. Because it's logical to look for help in a situation like the one they're in? This movie has proven character's don't act logically or reasonable and you yourself stated that there's no point in looking at what's reasonable, so this excuse also flies out the window.
So far I have not seen any real valid evidence for Asuka to expect Shinji to go help her when everything she's aware of and everything she isn't aware of makes claim that she shouldn't expect it. In all honesty, it makes more sense for her to expect help from Mari or even Rei Q before expecting help from Shinji.
Please just call me Ian, "TheFrisky" is more of a title.
"Knowledge seeks no Man."
"Knowledge seeks no Man."
That wasn't my intent, and I don't think it's implied in what I actually said.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
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What it sounds like you said-- to me, anyway-- is that Asuka knows that Shinji isn't going to hate her and doesn't feel a need to alter her behavior towards Shinji if she wants something from him.
Shin Evangelion brought me back, five long years later.
Apophenia. Noun. The tendency to perceive a connection or meaningful pattern between unrelated or random things.
They called me the Quentin Tarantino of hentai.
The difference between a blow-up doll and a dakimakura.
Apophenia. Noun. The tendency to perceive a connection or meaningful pattern between unrelated or random things.
They called me the Quentin Tarantino of hentai.
The difference between a blow-up doll and a dakimakura.
More like "Shinji doesn't hate Asuka (as Frisky does) and Asuka knows this, so it's reasonable to assume her frustration with his actions won't result iin a "fuck you" attitude from him." IOW Frisky's assumptions aren't representative of anything we see in the show, and thus not particularly relevant when evaluating the characters' actions.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
- TheFriskyIan
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I Xoxo 2.0 Asuka.
and Asuka knows this, so it's reasonable to assume her frustration with his actions won't result iin a "fuck you" attitude from him." IOW Frisky's assumptions aren't representative of anything we see in the show, and thus not particularly relevant when evaluating the characters' actions.
It's a representation of common sense, but then again almost all characters save for Gendo and Sakura in Q seem to lack this, so I assume you're right in that regard.
Please just call me Ian, "TheFrisky" is more of a title.
"Knowledge seeks no Man."
"Knowledge seeks no Man."
- ElMariachi
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TheFriskyIan wrote:Let's look at the sequence of events:
1. Shinji stops moving Eva 13
2. Asuka is still attacking him
3. Shinji asks why she's attacking him (Thus showing that he is willing to talk things out, willing to listen.
What happens next? Asuka still attacks him and refuses to acknowledge his willingness to listen. For what reason afterwards does Shinji have to not only listen to her when she clearly denied that earlier when it mattered, but to even go as far as help her after she so violently attacked him when she could have stopped and talked out her point of view instead of yelling him to stop with no answers while attacking him.
Shinji has no reason to go help her. Even if Kaworu hadn't died and shattered him emotionally, he has no justifiable excuse to go "Well yeah, she tried to kill me but ya know...." But this is clearly the bias in me and not a common sense point of view. The next time someone attacks me, I'll be sure to go help them out of a bind so that they can chew me out some more.
Okay, so:
1/ YES, Asuka acted stupidly by stubbornly refusing to talk things through with Shinji (and it ultimately cost her her Eva), but...
2/ she and Mari were trying to prevent the world to be destroyed, with something that big at stakes you don't take kids gloves (especially with SEELE's tendency to use weirdass Evas)
2a/ They were right in trying to stop Shinji, as the whole thing was a big trap from Gendo (and it's possible that even had the Cassius been here it would had resulted in Instrumentality)
3/ Asuka wasn't trying to kill Shinji, the line about "shutting up and dying" was a mistranslation, and notices that she didn't used the Beast Mode and only let Mari use the potentially lethal anti-AT Field rounds when there wasn't any other choice to stop Shinji from pulling out the spears
3a/ once Shinji wasn't a direct threat to the freaking world, they didn't had any reason to attack him anymore, and they didn't, when grabbing EVA-13 to definitively stop it, Mari could had drawn Unit-08's prog knife and skewered the entry plug port until Shinji is reduced to paste, but she didn't: she ejected Shinji's entry plug while urging him to help Asuka, meaning that they don't intend to kill him, but to bring him back to safety alongside Asuka (and Rei Q), Mari saving Shinji can thus be seen as a token of good will. And indeed, Asuka didn't tried to kill Shinji on sight, sure she tried to abandon him, but that was clearly an epidermic reaction to her frustration and his unresponsive state, since she immediately came back once she cooled down.
So to conclude yes, Asuka handled the situation very poorly and this whole clusterfuck could had maybe be avoided, but that doesn't change the fact that WILLE was trying to protect the world, that they were right in trying to stop Shinji, and that once all was said and done and Shinji no longer an active player in the enemy's plans, they stopped attacking him to try to bring him back to safety, since Mari and later Asuka had a golden opportunity to kill Shinji, yet didn't do it.
And finally their previous friendship does mean something for her, or else she wouldn't had called for his help in operation US and wouldn't had taken upon herself to drag him back to safety across the red desert even thought that diminish her chances of survival. (I really doubt that she would had bothered had it been Kaworu instead of Shinji)
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
- Mario_Abel
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- ElMariachi
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^
What is the relevance to the current discussion?
What is the relevance to the current discussion?
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
^
I think someone was talking about it in here?
Not only that, but we're talking about a specific role here. Asuka told Shinji she didn't receive his help. Asuka is partially taking on the "I needed help" princessy role. Mari alludes to this herself, telling Shinji to save the princess.
When Rei blocks 01 with 00's shield, it suggests that Shinji might be the princess that needs saving(in some way). However, because it's Rei's prized book, it could also point to herself.
It's just interesting to see how the princess role is passed around.
I think someone was talking about it in here?
Not only that, but we're talking about a specific role here. Asuka told Shinji she didn't receive his help. Asuka is partially taking on the "I needed help" princessy role. Mari alludes to this herself, telling Shinji to save the princess.
When Rei blocks 01 with 00's shield, it suggests that Shinji might be the princess that needs saving(in some way). However, because it's Rei's prized book, it could also point to herself.
It's just interesting to see how the princess role is passed around.
Right. The theme of saving the princess is definitely noticable in Q. I'd like to swing the direction of the conversation in another direction though...
I'm going at this from memory, but in one of the NTE movies, Rei is reading a book. Shinji makes reference to reading being something that Rei liked to do in Q. But in one of them, Rei was reading a book. One of the users here(again, this is extremely IIRC, but I haven't found anything against it either) pointed out that the book was, indeed, Sleeping Beauty. (or something very akin to it)
This won't be about Rei and Shinji, but rather trying to figure out if there is a connection here. There certainly seems to be, although I don't know which direction to take it.
In the first movie, Rei stands up in 00 and shields Shinji from best waifu(diamond angel)'s blast. The shield is another reference to Sleeping Beauty: it's named something like the Prince shield(or something - again, IIRC, this was based on another member's note).
It seems there's a Sleeping Beauty theme at play here, but I can't figure out which direction it's coming from. You'd assume Rei's the sleeper. She's reading the book. But then she's holding the prince shield, protecting Shinji. Then Mari and Asuka mention it to Shinji, but again, Shinji is the one suffering and needing protection(from the POV of Q).
Thoughts?
In essence, I feel the sleeping beauty theme for some reason points to Shinji, without him(or the other characters) noticing it. Shinji's the one that apparently is asleep, that wakes up for the impacts, or that needs waking up before he destroys the planet and does some more reckless shit.
I'm going at this from memory, but in one of the NTE movies, Rei is reading a book. Shinji makes reference to reading being something that Rei liked to do in Q. But in one of them, Rei was reading a book. One of the users here(again, this is extremely IIRC, but I haven't found anything against it either) pointed out that the book was, indeed, Sleeping Beauty. (or something very akin to it)
This won't be about Rei and Shinji, but rather trying to figure out if there is a connection here. There certainly seems to be, although I don't know which direction to take it.
In the first movie, Rei stands up in 00 and shields Shinji from best waifu(diamond angel)'s blast. The shield is another reference to Sleeping Beauty: it's named something like the Prince shield(or something - again, IIRC, this was based on another member's note).
It seems there's a Sleeping Beauty theme at play here, but I can't figure out which direction it's coming from. You'd assume Rei's the sleeper. She's reading the book. But then she's holding the prince shield, protecting Shinji. Then Mari and Asuka mention it to Shinji, but again, Shinji is the one suffering and needing protection(from the POV of Q).
Thoughts?
In essence, I feel the sleeping beauty theme for some reason points to Shinji, without him(or the other characters) noticing it. Shinji's the one that apparently is asleep, that wakes up for the impacts, or that needs waking up before he destroys the planet and does some more reckless shit.
Rei was reading The Happy Prince there. No idea how it matches up, but Rei wants to make Shinji happy, and Asuka's our princess, and Gendo's the king . . . eh, who knows?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
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