Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby Sachi » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:19 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:Also when she blinks during the N4I scene, it's clearly shown she's missing an eyelid because the light in the eyepatch does not dim

"Clearly shown" is speaking with too much confidence, since it's not explicit. If the light can be seen through an eye patch, then surely it can be seen through an eye lid with no issue.
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby Lennik » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:10 pm

Ray, quoting Kendrix to try to disprove our claim that Kendrix was wrong about something really isn't an argument. I really don't see how that scene proves what Kendrix says it proves. It's more like Kendrix believes something about the characterization and then reinterprets or assumes things about scenes to support that belief. The only way you can keep pushing this "Everybody hates Shinji" thing is if you completely ignore a ton of evidence that that's not the case and recontextualize scenes to fit your overly cynical narrative.

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Postby Thomas68 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:28 am

View Original PostMario_Abel wrote:Exactly! What is Asuka hiding from us?


Probably another s00p3r s33kr1t or double meaning charade which we'll have to read between the lines
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby Apox » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:57 pm

Necro bump.

In the "official" khara translation during the Unit 13 fight, Asuka blatantly says "stand still and let me kill you" (or something to that effect). I read somewhere else that khara wasn't happy with the translation, so they did their own, so is it fair to say that Asuka was indeed prepared to "kill" Shinji? Going from "imma fuck you up" to "you didn't help me" is a bit of a stretch within the story narrative.

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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:07 pm

It has been pretty well established in the thread on the subject that the Japanese doesn't mean "kill", so the usage there is metaphoric.
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby stern » Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:46 pm

After re-watching 3.33 for like the 5th time, I can only understand that Asuka quote as referencing EoE. There is simply no moment in the movie to justify that phrase, as others pointed out. Minutes before she was refusing to listen to Shinji and was attacking him. She tried to punch him and showed hate/disdain for him.
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:20 pm

Surely it's much more likely that she's referencing the previous film, in which he fails to rescue her from the 9th angel (Rebuild's "Bardiel")?
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:00 pm

"She didn't receive his help" :

Right after Asuka is crippled & placed into extensive care in 2.0 Shinji doesn't even check up on her to see if she's alive. He just says "Fuck it, I'm getting the hell out of dodge". I'd be pissed too if someone who I thought was my friend didn't even feel it was necessary to visit me in the hospital.

That's what I always took her line as.
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby stern » Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:04 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Surely it's much more likely that she's referencing the previous film, in which he fails to rescue her from the 9th angel (Rebuild's "Bardiel")?


But he tried and he got so mad later that he wrecked Nerv HQ. You could argue "Asuka didn't know that, she didn't know about the dummy system, she didn't know that Shinji tried to resist it and even let Bardiel attack him without attacking back", but if in 14 years she didn't acquire this information and we as viewers are supposed to know about her ignorance without being given any hint, it is quite a stretch. Otherwise she is wrongly blaming him for a bunch of things.
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:34 pm

Shinji didn't really do anything to help her. The only action he took after Unit 03 showed up was grappling with it to force its hands away from his throat. That's why the Dummy Plug was used and why she got hurt so badly in the first place.

Compare that to the lengths he went to to rescue Rei, who he had every right to believe was dead and digested...I really can't blame Asuka for being pissed off at him. That would really hurt even if that wasn't how he meant it.
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:47 pm

View Original Poststern wrote:After re-watching 3.33 for like the 5th time, I can only understand that Asuka quote as referencing EoE. There is simply no moment in the movie to justify that phrase, as others pointed out. Minutes before she was refusing to listen to Shinji and was attacking him. She tried to punch him and showed hate/disdain for him.


She was talking about the kitchen scene, she really wanted help cooking that food.

[spoiler=]In all honesty I believe you, I said the same thing. I honestly believe some Jacob's Ladder or Angel Heart level film-making is being done. I really believe that the scene of Asuka when she's in that incubation chamber wrapped up in all the machinery is actually her after she is recovered from the beach. I think that scene when she makes contact with "Bardiel" is actually her just leaving instrumentality.[/spoiler]
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:02 pm

View Original Poststern wrote:But he tried and he got so mad later that he wrecked Nerv HQ.

No. He decided not to resist Bardiel in order not to hurt her - his anger was because Gendou went and did that anyway using the dummy plug. He should have done his best to stop Bardiel without hurting her, as he could have been more discriminating than the dummy plug system was.

See my fanfic (link below) for a bit more on this.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby Reichu » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:44 am

I recently re-watched 3.33 myself. I still am completely lacking for an answer to the topic question. However...

1) Before force-ejecting Shinji's plug, Mari tells Shinji to "be a man" and go help/save the Princess.
2) When Asuka shows up at Shinji's plug, she laments, "You brat. You didn't come to help me? Everything's still all about you."

On the one hand, neither bit of dialogue seems to make any sense in context. Why would Mari think Asuka would need or want any help from Shinji, who is in turn not in any position to provide any? Wouldn't Mari, as Asuka's partner of fourteen years, be the one to provide help? Why is she randomly burdening Impact-kun of all people with a responsibility to a team mate she would naturally want to follow up on? She doesn't provide any reason why she can't do it and therefore he must, so her words ring a bit nonsensical. But, well, Asuka acts like she had heard the entire interchange, and seems to have felt confident enough that Mari's words would do SOMETHING that she expresses a modicum of disappointment. None of it really makes any sense whatsoever and I have no idea what Anno is trying to get at here. These just might be the most boggling lines in the whole film, which is quite an accomplishment.

But what makes even less sense, IMO, is trying to bring long-past events into this. Mari is telling him to "go help the Princess", present tense. Now, in the current situation. Not "Go backward in time fourteen years and give her the help she needed then".

Suffice it to say that "Travel into another Eva continuity that was concluded over a decade ago and help the Asuka there" makes the least amount of sense of anything.
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:57 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Suffice it to say that "Travel into another Eva continuity that was concluded over a decade ago and help the Asuka there" makes the least amount of sense of anything.

Oh, it's not that clear-cut. The two remarks could be not so intimately linked; or Mari's remark could be referring to the past even while being an exhortation in the present (though, as you say, to help with what?).
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:18 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Oh, it's not that clear-cut. The two remarks could be not so intimately linked; or Mari's remark could be referring to the past even while being an exhortation in the present (though, as you say, to help with what?).

Stupid question, and I know it's old continuity, but what was it when Asuka was screaming her head off about how he never holds her or help her or does anything, but what kind of help was she talking about?
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby Reichu » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:36 am

ChaddyManPrime: Although Asuka's defense mechanisms require that she push people away from her vulnerable inner core, she innately desires emotional intimacy, having a true connection to someone else. Shinji is unable to break through her wall even though, on some level, she wants him to; so she defaults to blaming him for his inability to help her, rather than taking responsibility for how her own behavior is impeding him from acting as she desires. "Help" here is, I suspect, in the general sense of providing companionship and moral support.

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:The two remarks could be not so intimately linked

Why would you think so? Mari is telling Shinji, in the present time, to go help Asuka. Shortly thereafter, Asuka, upon finding Shinji, comments upon his lack of helpfulness with reference to his present selfish state. Both young women are helping Shinji get out of the precarious circumstances his distrust and impulsiveness have gotten himself in: Mari, from the confines of Eva-13 during 4I, and Asuka, from the entry plug itself and the red waste it's stranded in. They both indicate that Shinji's behavior is babyish; perhaps not coincidentally, they both act as symbolic midwives, forcing the infantile Shinji out of a double-layered womb. They seem about as intimately linked as two scenes can be. While I'm certain there's something we're missing here, I'm doubtful we'll find it if we can't take at face value the parts that are actually right in front of us.

I'm also at a loss for how suddenly referencing the 9th Angel incident makes any sense in the given context. The situations are absolutely nothing alike, so why in the world would Mari even consider bringing it up?

Note that your post doesn't address Asuka's lines at all, and they're half of the problem.
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:47 am

Alright I'm just gonna say it without saying it, I've said this before but I'm gonna say again but leave it very vague as to not offend anyone. Feel free to toss this in the graveyard if you hate it. I'm gonna do this as a thought experiment, let you draw your own ideas. I'll fill the emptiness if you need it inquire me about it.

Alright, there is one person, they are whole, an incident occurs and a piece of that person is taken away. Another incident happens and the rest of the being is split into two. The two beings have similarities to the original being but due to not being whole they come off as 1 dimensional, they both express different parts of the same individual. They are not who they were, they need identity, they follow two different paths. They meet again eventually, they are separate yet equal, weak but strong. The person they originally were did not like themselves very much, yet as a divided entity they can see the traits that allow the person as a whole to love themselves. The two halves bond and learn from each other for years. They become great friends with great chemistry, you begin to think that they are in a relationship, a romantic one at that, but in all honesty it's just love for one's self.
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby Reichu » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:02 am

Chaddy, what in the blazes is that supposed to mean and what in the world does it have to do with the thread? You seem to be attempting to tiptoe, in a completely self-aware manner, around the sorts of things you've been told NOT to do. I don't think you need me to tell you that this isn't a smart idea. As I've told you: contain your musings in their own thread if you must, but stop it with the topic-derailing non sequiturs.
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:13 am

Rei, it applies to questions raised in this thread. About how certain individuals know what the other is referring to. I was keeping it vague so the people on here could think for themselves without someone interjecting their own agenda.

And I would not create a thread for something this trivial.
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Re: Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:42 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:ChaddyManPrime: I'm also at a loss for how suddenly referencing the 9th Angel incident makes any sense in the given context. The situations are absolutely nothing alike, so why in the world would Mari even consider bringing it up?


I'm of the mind that the 9th Angel is why she's mad at him in the first place. The anger and grief she couldn't hold in. I have no idea why they both bust his chops for not helping Asuka in the present. Asuka had her end of 4th Impact pretty firmly in-hand and I can't see where or why she would even need his help in the first place. The only thing Shinji really could have done to help is stand down and eject from Unit 13, but how does that save Asuka? She's fine the whole time. :???:

He could race over to her entry plug after it ejects to make sure she's all right, I suppose. He did do something like that with Rei in 1.0. Maybe they just want Shinji to make an effort to show her that he does give a damn about her? Instead she has to rescue him.

It's a little sad when you compare the two universes. The other Shinji came to Asuka's rescue several times all on his own, but this one just can't stop crossing her.
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!


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