Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Why did Asuka tell Shinji she didn't receive his help?

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Postby Mario_Abel » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:55 pm

Asuka was apparently trying to kill Shinji before she told him that he wasn't there to help her at the end of 3.0. Mari was also bringing it up earlier as well saying "At least help the princess.".... doesn't make sense to me.


FAQs didn't explain much. Will I just have to wait for the last movie that comes out in 2015 to get apprehend-able answers? Tell me what you think.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:07 pm

It could be foreshadowing to something Asuka is personally fighting within herself, making her a ticking time bomb. Or it could be a reference to something that happened to her in the past. Or it could be both.

At first, Mari’s statement “Help the Princess,”could only be seen as merely a motivator for Shinji to get out of the dumps about Kaworu’s death. But as soon as Asuka repeats the same thing to Shinji, we might be starting to see that whatever it is she needs help with is much more real than what a simple motivator would suggest. A thought I had (that may not actually be the case, we’ll see) is that whatever happens regarding Impact physically effects Asuka more than it does the others. This might have something to do with the fact that Asuka was invaded by the 9th Angel in Ha, and therefore Angelic/Adams activity on such a large scale as Impact effects her more than it does the others. We can see what might be evidence of this by the blue cross light that appears in Asuka’s eye-patch during the last battle scene in Q. That cross light in her eye-patch during that battle matches the one Asuka sees as the 9th Angel begins its invasive attack in Ha. So when Mari says to Shinji “Help the princess,” she could very well mean that Asuka might be in more danger sooner than the others if something isn’t done.

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Postby Mario_Abel » Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:28 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:It could be foreshadowing to something Asuka is personally fighting within herself, making her a ticking time bomb. Or it could be a reference to something that happened to her in the past. Or it could be both.

At first, Mari’s statement “Help the Princess,”could only be seen as merely a motivator for Shinji to get out of the dumps about Kaworu’s death. But as soon as Asuka repeats the same thing to Shinji, we might be starting to see that whatever it is she needs help with is much more real than what a simple motivator would suggest. A thought I had (that may not actually be the case, we’ll see) is that whatever happens regarding Impact physically effects Asuka more than it does the others. This might have something to do with the fact that Asuka was invaded by the 9th Angel in Ha, and therefore Angelic/Adams activity on such a large scale as Impact effects her more than it does the others. We can see what might be evidence of this by the blue cross light that appears in Asuka’s eye-patch during the last battle scene in Q. That cross light in her eye-patch during that battle matches the one Asuka sees as the 9th Angel begins its invasive attack in Ha. So when Mari says to Shinji “Help the princess,” she could very well mean that Asuka might be in more danger sooner than the others if something isn’t done.


Interesting idea, but how would Shinji actually understand what Asuka was really trying to say then? Asuka was telling him the words like he actually knew exactly was she was talking about.

I thought what Mari said was a mere motivator as well, and it seems that Mari is "In The Know" about Asuka's situation. If this is really the case, I am hoping Asuka tells Shinji about this before its too late. (Or Mari can tell him.)
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Postby Sicarius VI » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:31 pm

This is one big question I had put to the back of my mind, until Shin we have no idea what Asuka and Mari meant by it. If Asuka is found to be in some type of danger, it is apparent that Shinji can somewhat help, but I don't think this is the case considering the fact that Asuka seems to be perfectly fine in 3.0, maybe if only a little emotionally torn because of Shinji.

Now my take on it as it stands, as we see before in 3.0 Mari tends to tease Asuka suggesting she wanted to see Shinji for something more that what she said, basically teasing her to the fact in 2.0 Asuka had some sort of crush on Shinji(which Asuka told Mari in the time skip that we don't know much about). So with this and I just said this recently in a previous post- When Asuka wakes up after 2.0 I bet that the one person she was looking for was Shinji, and this was likely for comfort, I could imagine how waking up to a recently destroyed world would be unsettling and she would seek someone familiar. As well all know she ended up only finding Mari, and the 14 years past with unresolved feelings towards Shinji. Then in 3.0 Shinji comes back long after Asuka wakes up, and the event of 3.0 unfold. I believe Asuka saying that is too state to Shinji "You weren't around before to help me Baka, but you can start now." (Despite the fact she just said "Shut up and Die" to him durning the battle and how Eva-01 saves in her the movie's opening, ahh but such should be expected from this German vixen). Also Asuka could be jealous because Shinji didn't start a N3I for her but Rei.

I hope my opinion helps a little.
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Postby Mario_Abel » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:34 am

View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:This is one big question I had put to the back of my mind, until Shin we have no idea what Asuka and Mari meant by it. If Asuka is found to be in some type of danger, it is apparent that Shinji can somewhat help, but I don't think this is the case considering the fact that Asuka seems to be perfectly fine in 3.0, maybe if only a little emotionally torn because of Shinji.

Now my take on it as it stands, as we see before in 3.0 Mari tends to tease Asuka suggesting she wanted to see Shinji for something more that what she said, basically teasing her to the fact in 2.0 Asuka had some sort of crush on Shinji(which Asuka told Mari in the time skip that we don't know much about). So with this and I just said this recently in a previous post- When Asuka wakes up after 2.0 I bet that the one person she was looking for was Shinji, and this was likely for comfort, I could imagine how waking up to a recently destroyed world would be unsettling and she would seek someone familiar. As well all know she ended up only finding Mari, and the 14 years past with unresolved feelings towards Shinji. Then in 3.0 Shinji comes back long after Asuka wakes up, and the event of 3.0 unfold. I believe Asuka saying that is too state to Shinji "You weren't around before to help me Baka, but you can start now." (Despite the fact she just said "Shut up and Die" to him durning the battle and how Eva-01 saves in her the movie's opening, ahh but such should be expected from this German vixen). Also Asuka could be jealous because Shinji didn't start a N3I for her but Rei.

I hope my opinion helps a little.


Your opinion absolutely helps. :)

I think the upcoming new movie will give us all the insight we could ask for regarding Asuka getting 'rescued' by Eva-01 (or most likely Shinji himself). As for during the time skip, it is very likely Asuka told Mari a gist of how she feels about Shinji like you said. ("Basically I woke up one day and the boy of my life was gone from me.") Just stating an example that sounds like a statement Asuka could make to Mari regarding her thoughts about Shinji.

This time skip is loathsome for her in this case because apparently, her feelings for him never went away...even after 14 years.
Last edited by Mario_Abel on Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby TheFriskyIan » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:34 am

Good question, her comment is completely asinine and shows any lack of care for her actions previously. Not only does she not care about the fact that she tried to kill him which could lead to the fact that he wouldn't help in until Hell freezes over, but also the fact that her attitude problem in not talking out things rationally with Shinji led him to become desperate and pull the spears. I honestly can not comprehend what went on in Asuka's mind when she said that because it makes absolutely no sense from the perspective of both characters. Why would he help you if you tried to kill him? If he's such an worthless little shit like you claim he is, why even ask for his help if you're just going to treat him like trash?
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Postby Mario_Abel » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:42 am

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:Good question, her comment is completely asinine and shows any lack of care for her actions previously. Not only does she not care about the fact that she tried to kill him which could lead to the fact that he wouldn't help in until Hell freezes over, but also the fact that her attitude problem in not talking out things rationally with Shinji led him to become desperate and pull the spears. I honestly can not comprehend what went on in Asuka's mind when she said that because it makes absolutely no sense from the perspective of both characters. Why would he help you if you tried to kill him? If he's such an worthless little shit like you claim he is, why even ask for his help if you're just going to treat him like trash?


Exactly! What is Asuka hiding from us? That's what I'm trying to figure out, but the answer feels out almost entirely out of reach at this point. I'm sure the new movie coming out will explain everything thoroughly regarding Asuka's agenda. (It looks like she implies at the end of 3.0 that Shinji is supposed to understand regarding the saying, "You didn't help me.")
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:02 am

I believe it was mentioned last year that Asuka could have been talking about her incorporation into the Bardiel-infested Eva-03-- but failing that and attempting to interpret what Mari and Asuka are talking about as if they meant something that happened in Q... the only real option is Asuka's fight against the Mk.09, and I just don't know what to make of that suggestion.

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Postby Jäeger » Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:42 am

1) It's pretty obvious told Mari about her feelings, it's implicit. There is a big chance he was her first and last love.

2) It puzzled me : "Help the princess at last!!!!! Aren't you a man??? And learn how the world works meanwhile"

When??? Looking for her capsule a few hours???
Do american "cool" people know that in Europe only alcoholics and homeless drink wine without food by its side???

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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:28 am

I think you guys are overcomplicating the matter, so:

- First, the "Shut up and die!" line was a mistranslation, Asuka's line was more akin "Go down (as in, "submit and surrender"), bratty Shinji!"

- Second, sure she was very violent and refused to listen to him, and that certainly contributed in Shinji finishing to lose his marbles, but Asuka's job was to prevent the freaking end of the world, and once Shinji isn't an active player in the enemy plans, she and Mari didn't had any reason to attack him directly. (and indeed, once all was left was to cut the second pilot from EVA-13, all Mari did was to eject Shinji instead of killing him)

- Third, I simply took Mari's comment to "at least help the Princess" as a way to say "yes, you were completely manipulated by this asshole Gendo and failed to save the world, but that's not the end of the world (we just prevented it), there's still something you can do to help, go find the Princess out there and help her so you can both get back to safety!", Asuka reusing Mari's words could mean that she heard the conversation via her entry plug radio, but in any case Asuka busted her ass looking for Shinji's entry plug, maybe was concerned when seeing it still closed that something had happened to him... and then found him for all intend and purpose pouting at the bottom of the entry plug, meaning that he just waited here feeling sorry for himself instead doing something, like at least trying to go look for her so they could get out of here ASAP.
Recall: she doesn't know what happened to Shinji back at neo-NERV nor what made him so crazily stubborn at pulling out the spears, and that he's not pouting, but in the middle of a complete nervous breakdown.

Maybe the added "Only thinking about yourself, as usual." line was a subtle jab at the fact he refused to fight Bardiel 14 years ago by fear of dirtying his hand (and harming Asuka), but that will probably have to wait for Shin Eva to be sure.

As for how he could had found her even if he had tried to help, well Asuka and Rei Q found his entry plug, so there must be a way to find each other, maybe looking for a parachute, or simply screaming to get the other's attention, after all they are alone with no life in a dozen of kilometers radius, so they voice certainly reach very far. (Asuka probably shouted for Shinji, and I'm ready to bet that's how Rei Q found her, and Shinji)
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:48 am

View Original PostMario_Abel wrote:Interesting idea, but how would Shinji actually understand what Asuka was really trying to say then? Asuka was telling him the words like he actually knew exactly was she was talking about.

Shinji's confused about everything in Q, mainly because terrible things keep happening before anyone can explain them to him. It's like when Misato told Shinji that the thing inside the Mark.09 wasn't Rei. No one had time to explain what, how, or even why things are the way they are. Shinji was expected to act or react based on simply being told something without being informed of that thing's proper context. The same thing might apply here. Due to the both of them free falling, Mari doesn't have time to blurt out anything other than "Help the Princess!"

Meanwhile Asuka might not be telling Shinji because she assumes the same might be happening to him. If you look at the equipment in the room in Q when Shinji wakes up, it looks very similar to the equipment used on Asuka in Ha after her Angelic contamination. Both Mari and Asuka might be assuming that Shinji is experiencing the same physical ailment during Impact, but that Shinji doesn't care what happens to him because Kaworu just died. So Mari uses Asuka's situation as motivation.

Granted, I'm assuming a lot here. This is why this might not have anything to do with the actual events in Q. Hopfully we'll see some clues when Eva Shin comes out as to what's really going on here.
Last edited by FreakyFilmFan4ever on Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Jäeger » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:04 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:
As for how he could had found her even if he had tried to help, well Asuka and Rei Q found his entry plug, so there must be a way to find each other, maybe looking for a parachute, or simply screaming to get the other's attention, after all they are alone with no life in a dozen of kilometers radius, so they voice certainly reach very far. (Asuka probably shouted for Shinji, and I'm ready to bet that's how Rei Q found her, and Shinji)


And what he is gonna learn about the world, even in a dozen of kilometers radius? That it's a wasteland??

What I'm pretty sure a lot of these questions will be answered in Final, because I bet my fortune there will be a lot of intereaction between the. At least at the beginning.....
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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:13 am

View Original PostJäeger wrote:And what he is gonna learn about the world, even in a dozen of kilometers radius? That it's a wasteland??

Not everything Mari said has to be immediately applicable, her comment could simply mean for him to learn to open himself to others' opinion and not jump to conclusions, but to try to get the greater picture first. Fuyutsuki gave him the same advice earlier when they were playing shogi.

And yes, "learning how the world works" will probably begin by him asking some informations about this new world to Asuka during their trip, assuming Shinji gets out of his funk and hat Asuka will be willing to talk.
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Postby Jäeger » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:37 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Not everything Mari said has to be immediately applicable, her comment could simply mean for him to learn to open himself to others' opinion and not jump to conclusions, but to try to get the greater picture first. Fuyutsuki gave him the same advice earlier when they were playing shogi.

And yes, "learning how the world works" will probably begin by him asking some informations about this new world to Asuka during their trip, assuming Shinji gets out of his funk and hat Asuka will be willing to talk.


Ok, know I understand what you were trying to say :D

But I'M sure the "at least help the princess?? Aren't you a man" has deeper meaning. She knows about her feelings and.....do you really think Asuka needs Shinji's help to survive???
Do american "cool" people know that in Europe only alcoholics and homeless drink wine without food by its side???

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Postby Sicarius VI » Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:11 am

View Original PostJäeger wrote:Ok, know I understand what you were trying to say :D

But I'M sure the "at least help the princess?? Aren't you a man" has deeper meaning. She knows about her feelings and.....do you really think Asuka needs Shinji's help to survive???


As Asuka has already survived 14 years, no. However if Shinji gets out of his EOE state in Shin, then I'm sure his help would be greatly appreciated. As I said Shinji wasn't able to help before, but that doesn't mean he can't start now.
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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:27 am

View Original PostJäeger wrote:But I'M sure the "at least help the princess?? Aren't you a man" has deeper meaning. She knows about her feelings and.....do you really think Asuka needs Shinji's help to survive???

Yes, it's clear that Mari have an agenda toward Shinji and Asuka, the most probable is that she wants them to interact and sort out the unresolved emotional mess between them due to Bardiel and the 14 years with Shinji "frozen", maybe she saw that there's room for reconciliation of they talk heartily and that it will do a lot of good to both of them to do so, maybe she also ships them too.

Now as to survive, two people is always better than one (and they actually are three!), and in such a situation they are into (stranded in a sterile wasteland) any and all help is useful, that's probably what Mari meant, not to save the day since he can't, but at least to give a hand so they can all come back to safety ASAP.

Actually the way Shinji is now is exactly the contrary of what Mari wanted: not only he's completely unhelpful, but also the fact he's still alive means that Asuka has to drag him and take care of him, which will slow them all down and diminish their chance at surviving the trip. That's why I hope that in Shin Eva he'll get out of his funk during the trip and start helping, to avoid to add another complete failure on his recent track record. Besides character interaction will be very limited if Shinji stays reduced to a walking legume, and it would really be a shame that such an opportunity to have Shinji and Asuka (and Rei Q, let's not forget her) interact is wasted!
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Postby pwhodges » Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:37 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:That's why I hope that in Shin Eva he'll get out of his funk during the trip and start helping, to avoid to add another complete failure on his recent track record. Besides character interaction will be very limited if Shinji stays reduced to a walking legume, and it would really be a shame that such an opportunity to have Shinji and Asuka (and Rei Q, let's not forget her) interact is wasted!

You mean I have to start again and write another fic that does it differently? I think I'll leave that to Anno!
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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:44 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:You mean I have to start again and write another fic that does it differently? I think I'll leave that to Anno!

:lol: No don't worry, your fic is very fine! You found a way to treat the problem of Shinji's catatonia by having the trio quickly find an independent village with horses and supplies, which dramatically reduced the time they took to get back to WILLE.
But assuming that in Shin Eva they don't find help and take some time to reach a place for WILLE to pick them up (maybe several days, maybe a week if the core erosion stops after a certain distance so they can find fresh water and food), it would be nice to have Shinji get back to his senses (maybe after a couple of nights of sleep) so he could help and have the opportunity to interact with Asuka, because having the whole trip scenes with only Asuka and Rei Q and her mono-phrases of answers to everything with a completely silent and unresponsive will be a big wast of opportunities for some character interactions and development, and frankly boring! :tongue:
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Mario_Abel » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:35 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:But assuming that in Shin Eva they don't find help and take some time to reach a place for WILLE to pick them up (maybe several days, maybe a week if the core erosion stops after a certain distance so they can find fresh water and food), it would be nice to have Shinji get back to his senses (maybe after a couple of nights of sleep) so he could help and have the opportunity to interact with Asuka, because having the whole trip scenes with only Asuka and Rei Q and her mono-phrases of answers to everything with a completely silent and unresponsive will be a big wast of opportunities for some character interactions and development, and frankly boring! :tongue:


I wouldn't be surprised if they skipped the entire time they were in the desert.. that would seem to be like a huge letdown because like you said, the characters now have a chance to interact with each other.
We'd get to know Asuka's background, Rei Q is discussed a little bit more, and Shinji getting to understand Asuka's agenda.



- First, the "Shut up and die!" line was a mistranslation, Asuka's line was more akin "Go down (as in, "submit and surrender"), bratty Shinji!"


I had no idea that was a mistranslation! :D That changes a few things.


- Second, sure she was very violent and refused to listen to him, and that certainly contributed in Shinji finishing to lose his marbles, but Asuka's job was to prevent the freaking end of the world, and once Shinji isn't an active player in the enemy plans, she and Mari didn't had any reason to attack him directly. (and indeed, once all was left was to cut the second pilot from EVA-13, all Mari did was to eject Shinji instead of killing him)

- Third, I simply took Mari's comment to "at least help the Princess" as a way to say "yes, you were completely manipulated by this asshole Gendo and failed to save the world, but that's not the end of the world (we just prevented it), there's still something you can do to help, go find the Princess out there and help her so you can both get back to safety!", Asuka reusing Mari's words could mean that she heard the conversation via her entry plug radio, but in any case Asuka busted her ass looking for Shinji's entry plug, maybe was concerned when seeing it still closed that something had happened to him... and then found him for all intend and purpose pouting at the bottom of the entry plug, meaning that he just waited here feeling sorry for himself instead doing something, like at least trying to go look for her so they could get out of here ASAP.
Recall: she doesn't know what happened to Shinji back at neo-NERV nor what made him so crazily stubborn at pulling out the spears, and that he's not pouting, but in the middle of a complete nervous breakdown.

Maybe the added "Only thinking about yourself, as usual." line was a subtle jab at the fact he refused to fight Bardiel 14 years ago by fear of dirtying his hand (and harming Asuka), but that will probably have to wait for Shin Eva to be sure.

As for how he could had found her even if he had tried to help, well Asuka and Rei Q found his entry plug, so there must be a way to find each other, maybe looking for a parachute, or simply screaming to get the other's attention, after all they are alone with no life in a dozen of kilometers radius, so they voice certainly reach very far. (Asuka probably shouted for Shinji, and I'm ready to bet that's how Rei Q found her, and Shinji)


I like the points you made here. After Asuka found Shinji in the entry plug, it looked for a second like she was about to leave him there while she was walking away. (Just a little speculation, but I don't think she would've never done something like that.)
Last edited by Mario_Abel on Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:45 am

View Original PostMario_Abel wrote:We'd get to know Asuka's background, Rei Q is discussed a little bit more, and Shinji getting to understand Asuka's agenda.

Exactly! There's a lot of things to cover in Shin Eva, so wasting such a great opportunity for character development by skipping it directly to when they reach safety would be a waste.

Besides I don't really see the point to make it so the trio are stranded in a desert with nothing else to do but walk and talk if it's to not use it in Shin Eva, in this case it would had been better to have Shinji's entry plug retrieved by Mari and Asuka and Rei Q retrieved by the Wunder to get directly to the next scene in Shin Eva.
Also, the way the preview talked of that place that Shinji will arrives to that will bring him hope, it will be a very important moment in the movie, so better have it build up by an initial scene of the trio walking in the seemingly endless desert to have it have a bigger impact when they reach whatever that place will be, and of course while they're on it, better use these scenes in the desert to develop a little the characters.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
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