EGF: Has It Changed? How? [split]

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:51 pm

View Original PostRosenakahara wrote:especially when i should probably be doing college work.


...And that, boys and girls, is exactly how SSD somehow gained the highest post count back in the day! (Though its alternated between myself and Reichu.)
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:58 pm

Well, Bagheera is quickly on his way to steal it from you. :lol:

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Postby Bagheera » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:20 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Well, Bagheera is quickly on his way to steal it from you. :lol:


I'm no. 5, so I've a long way to go. I've got nothing on those noted luminaries.
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Postby Princess Asuka » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:17 pm

I've been here a year so I don't know much about the golden days. Yet, at a sailor moon forum I used to post at a lot I've observed it's changes and it went from less mods and being a less strict board which I miss because all the cool people left or got banned by two very bitchy admins, one that has now turned the board into a place where you can't give feedback or really question things or give opinions, basically fake warm and fuzziness in my opinion. Maybe from what I've observed is that when you have too much freedom, trolls come. And if it's too strict and there are too many rules, people get mad and leave. And usually a good forum has a balance of rules and structure and the staff isn't playing favorites with certain members. Seems like if a site has a change in rules or staff, people complain.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:10 pm

I wouldn't put it as "if you have too much freedom, trolls come" - trolls come and go to all forums, but whether or not they stay (and continue having their lulz at the cost of everyone's sanity) depends on how good the forum moderators are. Besides, like you pointed out, a lot of the stuff comes down to personal drama, like the two admins who started banning people and who stopped allowing feedback.

Strictness and the Anti-Trolling Factor are not necessarily the same, although stricter boards are certainly more likely to get rid of trolls quickly.

I had a much longer response typed in, but I deleted it after thinking the better of it. What do I say? It's complicated, and I've been here for a long enough time to realize that some of the things we're talking about can't be put down easily. Although I miss the feel of 2007-08 when I was new, when a certain Chilean troll was rampaging about and when I was into writing crazy fanfiction, the times have changed and so have I and there's nothing left to do but move on.
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Postby Sorrow » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:13 pm

I don't think there is an issue with the balance of rules here. The mods seem to be rather even handed, and capable of keeping the peace[s]---[/s]though I'm convinced NemZ has it out for me[s]---[/s]though sometimes willing to let things play out. Personally, I think there could be less thread locking when people are still willing to participate and no one has gotten out of hand, but that's just my opinion. If they think it's required for whatever reason, then so be it.

All this talk about the "golden days" seems more about missing old members, and less about an issue with the way things currently are. Some people have moved on and everyone who remained is more-or-less talking as if it is somehow more to do with other members, and not the members who left; and other members, and not themselves who stayed. There was a mention of a member (Mugwump was it?) [Correction: Eva Yojimbo. - Monk] who once said something to the effect of not trading anyone here for a home at IMDB, and then apparently did just that. Yet, somehow it's assumed to be an issue with things here?

There is no use in discussion of NGE if the only thing left for people to do is send the curious asker looking for a thread on the matter. If not that, then tell them why they're wrong - which admittedly lasts a bit longer and I had a few early decent conversations out of this. To get these though, you have to be more forceful in telling "old timers" why they're not necessarily right - that isn't a favourable approach for a newcomer, who will probably be seen as too big for their boots, and incapable of listening to those "more in the know".

If not that, then there is already information out there that we can find without having to ask, and sometimes a question might be raised that an "old timer" explains very concisely; also eliminating the need for a drawn out conversation. Though rarer, it does happen.

The only thing left here with any real worth (until 3.0+1.0, perhaps) are the array of potential topics that are "off-topic". These are the ones that are more likely to get locked, not too long after spontaneously popping up. They're not planned out by anyone, so there isn't much to do except respond with your disagreement of another poster, and not your entire opinion on the matter covering all potential views. You can't really expect any "quality posts" this way. I, often enough, find myself the only one holding up my end, and as such am often replying to three or more posts at once; without taking so long that everyone else has moved on. That isn't the fault of any one poster, but just how things seem to go around here.

Why doesn't the film group try and get the new members involved, and see if they have anything to offer? No one really invites a discussion; just occasionally someone has posted their thoughts on something that others may or may not have seen or have an interest in. The problem here, again, is that so many of you were already involved for so long, and probably don't wish to revisit them by suggesting everyone watch a film to discuss later in the week. You're going deeper and more obscure in your own favourite genres, inviting in less discussion the more ground you cover.

This really does have less to do with people joining, but just more to do with people leaving and everyone's own waning interest in covering the same ground. And every time another leaves, you wonder where it all went wrong.
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Postby Princess Asuka » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:36 pm

At least this site isn't a merge between two forums. At the other forum older members from one forum would be like since our site is older and we've been here longer we get to act like entitled assholes since we were here longer. Look, we all the same anime, why can't we get along? I could understand some rule changes made recently, but others were made simply because one person got offended and it didn't really bug anyone else.
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Postby Sorrow » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:39 pm

Actually, I believe it was a merge between two.

I've seen ANF and EMF in various places.
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Postby NemZ » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:18 am

View Original PostSorrow wrote:though I'm convinced NemZ has it out for me


I don't specifically 'have it out for you', but you do get on my nerves more often than I'd like. Mostly because you and Bagheera just can't seem to resist the compulsion to smash your skulls together as hard and as often as you can manage. Both of you really need to learn to just let shit go or not take everything so personally all the time. Or get a room? Something, anything, just stop it with the bumpercars routine that keeps ruining threads.
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Postby Ornette » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:19 am

ANF is Anime Nation Forums, they still exist over at animenation.net. EMF was Evamonkey's forums, which used to be at evamonkey.com, but hosting issues took the forum down for almost a year and we decided to revamp it and find new hosting that could handle the traffic, so a new site was created to host the forums (same software, same database, all the same users and messages, was literally just copied over). There was some members early on here that also had an account at anime nation.
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Postby Oz » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:02 am

View Original PostSorrow wrote:Why doesn't the film group try and get the new members involved, and see if they have anything to offer? No one really invites a discussion; just occasionally someone has posted their thoughts on something that others may or may not have seen or have an interest in.

Easier said than done.

Besides, the filmfag subculture worked because all of us had our own fixations. For example, if I had found an interesting Japanese film that the others didn't know, I would write a review about it in a film thread and the others would go and see it as well. Then after seeing it the filmfags would engage in a debate over the film which would often lead to bigger and more fundamental notions on film. These debates were not just fun: they helped me learn a lot about film. The subculture was a group in which everyone had mutual respect for each other and interest in each other's favorite films. Nowadays even if I happen to see a film seen (and possibly liked) by many EGF members and write about in the film thread, I don't get either any responses at all or with some luck one tangential comment that does not lead to proper discussion. Furthermore, if there is an obscure film I really want to share with others, it does not matter how much or how evocatively I write about it because no one will go out of their way to check it anymore.

It just makes me wonder why I keep coming to the site when my main reason for becoming a regular poster is now gone. I guess I have just grown too accustomed to checking the forums and I already know the members too well to simply depart. Besides, I also have a harder time fitting into other Internet communities these days. For the past few years whenever I have joined another forum I have soon left because I haven't been welcome there. I feel disappointed about the current state of things because I have no other outlet for the stuff I want to do. Losing the only one I had for years is not something that I can just shrug and forget.

It's not just a matter of recreating the circumstances or inviting discussion more actively/aggressively. The fact is that the current membership is either A) not particularly interested in cinema or B) not capable of discussing cinema to the extent that it would actually be fascinating and thought-provoking.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:07 am

In my case, I just got too busy with other things to be as filmfaggy as I once was. Or at least I'm finding different ways to express my filmfaggy tendencies. Posting them on EGF simply hasn't occurred to me in a while.
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Postby Sorrow » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:50 am

View Original PostOrnette wrote:ANF is Anime Nation Forums, they still exist over at animenation.net. EMF was Evamonkey's forums, which used to be at evamonkey.com, but hosting issues took the forum down for almost a year and we decided to revamp it and find new hosting that could handle the traffic, so a new site was created to host the forums (same software, same database, all the same users and messages, was literally just copied over). There was some members early on here that also had an account at anime nation.
Fair. Nice to know what ANF stood for. Though, If this site is a new version of EMF, and ANF is still running independently, then how and why exactly have you archived their topics?

View Original PostOz wrote:It's not just a matter of recreating the circumstances or inviting discussion more actively/aggressively. The fact is that the current membership is either A) not particularly interested in cinema or B) not capable of discussing cinema to the extent that it would actually be fascinating and thought-provoking.
But I don't see any conversation in regards to cinema, just specific films that various people have an interest in or have recently seen. I have a near obsession with many of my own film choices[s]---[/s]and others I wish to get around to seeing[s]---[/s]that I wouldn't expect others to care for (especially considering the films I have seen mentioned). Not interesting to others is not the same as not being fascinating or thought-provoking.

As FreakyFilmFan4ever has demonstrated, those you did share an ability to talk to about things you're interested in aren't particularly interested in continuing to do so. They're getting a fix elsewhere and, as such, you've moved on to other films, and other areas of the same field of interest - without them too. It isn't people's lack of ability, which you assume not to be present, but rather a lack of overlap in specific interests to talk about.
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Postby Ornette » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:02 am

View Original PostSorrow wrote:Fair. Nice to know what ANF stood for. Though, If this site is a new version of EMF, and ANF is still running independently, then how and why exactly have you archived their topics?

Because they purge their threads there, and some of them had to be pulled out of their database purgatory. After a while, even the threads in purgatory get deleted permanently. We have a copy of all the threads that were in the Evangelion subforum over there, including backups of all the images that got posted because there was a lot of visual analysis in some of the threads. The threads that are worth putting up in the archive get uploaded to the forum using placeholder users that end with "[ANF]".
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Postby Oz » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:47 am

View Original PostSorrow wrote:But I don't see any conversation in regards to cinema, just specific films that various people have an interest in or have recently seen. I have a near obsession with many of my own film choices[s]---[/s]and others I wish to get around to seeing[s]---[/s]that I wouldn't expect others to care for (especially considering the films I have seen mentioned). Not interesting to others is not the same as not being fascinating or thought-provoking.

As FreakyFilmFan4ever has demonstrated, those you did share an ability to talk to about things you're interested in aren't particularly interested in continuing to do so. They're getting a fix elsewhere and, as such, you've moved on to other films, and other areas of the same field of interest - without them too. It isn't people's lack of ability, which you assume not to be present, but rather a lack of overlap in specific interests to talk about.

In this case, “the overlap in specific interests” is pretty much interexchangable with “ the ability to talk about cinema in film buff terms” (reworded to better fit what I mean). In my opinion a “film buff” is someone who is interested in all sorts of films. In other words, what I was attemping to express is that EvaGeeks lacks actual film buffs - especially ones who actively engage in discussion.

Judging from your join date, you haven’t been around to witness the state of film discussion over the years since the subculture’s death. The films that have been posted about in the film thread over the years have not been that obscure and niche for the most part. Yet there has been very little discussion in the topic even when members have flocked to see the same new film. During the last few months the film thread has just happened to be full of unusual films, partly due to my list project. Besides, the point of my earlier post was that during the filmfag days the posters were more eager to venture out of their comfort zones and niches to reach out to other film buffs. Ever since the subculture collapsed I have gradually given up on desperately trying to muster up film discussion because my attempts never got any of us anywhere.

The former filmfags disappeared for many reasons. It was not just a matter of them getting their fix at some other place. There were also members who were banned and those who left after picking up too many fights with the staff or other members. It is not like all of them lost interest in the activities of other filmfags. In fact, I would say a majority of them are still just as curious about it, but they wandered away from the forum for completely different reasons.

By the way, you should post about the films you are obsessing over. At least I enjoy reading people’s writings of their favorite films.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:00 pm

View Original PostPrincess Asuka wrote:At least this site isn't a merge between two forums. [Snip] Look, we all the same anime, why can't we get along?


This site is something of a merge between 2: Eva Monkey Forums became Eva Geeks Forums.

If you're referring to the site in question I think you are: it is a merge between 2 fan forums (last year or a few years ago) since it was in both their interests. I don't know much about it, but from what I've noticed, it's like any other site where staff are open to questions/suggestions as long as forum members keep their cool. That's really true for any site, anywhere: Mutual respect/understanding can happen, but it has to be a two-way street, you know?

What you're talking about sounds more like some kind of drama, which in that case, it's instead best to learn from it (or don't get involved if it doesn't involve you personally) and move on. :nod: From my 8-years(!) experience as a forum and staff member here: Drama of any kind never does favors for anybody.

@Sorrow: You're probably thinking of Eva Yojimbo who left/went to another site, but I dunno all the details about that. He was a cool poster, though.

About the film subforum: I posted there on and off when I was taking some college film classes (2009-2010), but I'm not good at analyzing to go truly in-depth to most things. Subforum itself is pretty fun, though!
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Postby Sorrow » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:19 pm

View Original PostOz wrote:In this case, “the overlap in specific interests” is pretty much interexchangable with “ the ability to talk about cinema in film buff terms” (reworded to better fit what I mean). In my opinion a “film buff” is someone who is interested in all sorts of films. In other words, what I was attemping to express is that EvaGeeks lacks actual film buffs - especially ones who actively engage in discussion.
I'm certainly not a film buff, no. I'm rather selective. I never meant the films I'd seen mentioned are particularly obscure, either, but not necessarily someone else's cup of tea. I was also under the impression that you were well into any and everything Japanese. That in itself won't be too enticing for the conversations you'd probably like. If you're simply looking for anything film related though, then I suppose I could try and write a bit about some of the films I like - though I've never partook in even a verbal conversation about my favourite films, so don't expect much.

My experience usually amounts to people insisting I watch something just because it's new and exciting. If not new, then because it is the sort of film that everyone insists is amazing for nothing other than people saying it is - like Scarface.

Out of curiosity, when discussing a rather old film, is it more favourable to write it as a review to potentially get others interested, or to write an analysis of the film assuming they've seen it and/or don't care to know how it all turns out?

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Postby Oz » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:48 pm

View Original PostSorrow wrote:Out of curiosity, when discussing a rather old film, is it more favourable to write it as a review to potentially get others interested, or to write an analysis of the film assuming they've seen it and/or don't care to know how it all turns out?

That depends on the film. If you think it is a film that a majority of the film thread posters know, you can skip the formalities and go straight to the analysis. My style is to attempt to mix the two based on what fits the movie the best.
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Postby Trajan » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:45 pm

I'd be more than happy to comment and debate on films in a more intellectual manner, it's just that I haven't seen most the films you're been reviewing Oz. It's hard to have meaningful discussion on films you're never seen before let alone films that you didn't even know existed until your post mentions them.
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Postby TehDonutKing » Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:51 pm

SPOILER: Show
I never participated much in the filmfag group, but its dissolution was when i started to notice the forum going downhill like a volcano's diarrhea. Back when i joined, i was loledgy shitposter autist faggot, and now i'm just a faggot, so i seem more well-liked than back then, but most of y'all are autist faggots anyway. :D

Seriously though, i wish i was as mature back then as i am now. Guess my mom queefed me out a bit too late. Damn. Now, there were always shitposters and quality posters in the forum, and there still are. Golden days saw annoying assholes like Alleman, Tokpile, Smugleaf, me, etc., but most of them have long since departed or been banished. Even today, we've got quality posters like pwhodges, Xard, rosenakahara, Caragnafog Dog, me, etc., but i definitely see more shitposting and circlejerking today than i did back then. The shitposting and circlejerking that went on back in the golden days was at least entertaining instead of mindnumbing; whether it be arguing over whether plants are people or Defectron raving about God knows what, i damn well enjoyed reading it. Now, a man writes out a manifesto about how he uses bad politicking to hide his latent bisexuality, and you shit on the man, and that's no fun for anyone, especially not the shit-smeared queer. Shame on you.


Spoilered for being not at all as mature as you claim. -NemZ

I'm slipping into silliness again, so i'll say this.
Mugwump, Yojimbo, LiLi, OoOoOoO, Xeroko, symbv, and shin-seiki, please come back.


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