Terminator - Genisys (2015)

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Postby Chuckman » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:18 pm

I liked the twist but spoiling it in the trailer is Terminator 2 twist spoiling levels of dickishness. The director, etc. usually have absolutely no input over the trailers and marketing but if I wrote or directed that movie I would track down whoever decided to spill that and set their car on fire, and I don't even mind spoilers.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:23 pm

^Yeah, I'd normally expect that kind of thing to be a big climatic plot twist, but it's been completely spoilt. So basically the film has no real twists in it except for who lives at the end.

Also, this new revelation does seem to have shifted the main driving force of the movie significantly.



I still am curious where Matt Smith fits in to all this, though.
Plot spoiler related to Ray's earlier post  SPOILER: Show
I am a bit sad that the Asian T-1000 won't get more focus now that CrayCray!John is now the main antagonist.

That trailer also has the possibly unintentional spoiler that there will be even more time travel to somehow reach the point after John is born at some point in the film.
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Postby Defectron » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:30 pm

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:That said, Genisys seems to be trying to get as far from the original film as possible.


That might not nessecerily be a bad thing, if there is anything the alien vs predator franchise taught me, it was to never trust a director who said they planned to "stay true to the original"
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:33 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:It pains me to say it, but I think I'm gonna have to break with the crowd and say this looks like it might be okay.

Any movie that “retcons” T3 John Conner is okay with me, I guess. Or, perhaps it’s just best to view these movies as an anthology rather than a canonical series, with only the films made by the same director really having any important connection to one another.

Either way, it really hasn’t made me anymore interested in this one over, say, Jurassic World, Avengers 2, or Mad Max. It’s certainly made me more interested in it than the Star Wars movie, but I honestly felt that was an easy thing to accomplish, what with that useless teaser and all.

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Postby Ray » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:34 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I liked the twist but spoiling it in the trailer is Terminator 2 twist spoiling levels of dickishness. The director, etc. usually have absolutely no input over the trailers and marketing but if I wrote or directed that movie I would track down whoever decided to spill that and set their car on fire, and I don't even mind spoilers.


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Yeah I agree. It's the Mandarin all over again.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:51 pm

Not seeing how they're distancing themselves from the first one. Sarah Connor is the main character again. Kyle Reese is back as the male protagonist. They're redoing scenes from the first two films with a little twist on them. They'll reuse the score from the original films. They're reusing lines from the original film. The narrative is still going to be comprised of mostly talks about altering the future, then lengthy car chases before having to fight the terminator in an enclosed compound. Arnold Schwarzenneger even has a battle with altered footage of his performance from the original film.

I am of course curious to see if this franchise's third attempt in a row to reboot itself actually goes anywhere or whether we'll get another reboot in 5 to 6 years.

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Postby Chuckman » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:11 pm

I get the impression that the goal here is to offer a completion or swan song for the series. This will probably be Arnie's last one, barring digital effects.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:26 pm

[url]http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/413433-arnold-schwarzenegger-says-hell-be-back-for-terminator-genisys-sequel#/slide/1[/url]

They're already mapped out release dates for the next two films. Terminator 6 - May 19, 2017. Terminator 7 - June 29, 2018. With the amount of super budgeted boy movies that get made each year studio's place their flags down on which week is theirs long in advance. Of course if this film doesn't turn much of a profit - it needs to do something like $600 million worldwide just to break even - I expect the whole thing will end up getting dropped like The Amazing Spider-Man Parts 3 & 4 were.

Schwarzenneger is at least signed up for Terminator 6. If it happens "he'll be back" for Part 7. Or whatever the hell the plural of Genisys is. Genisyi? Genisyssee?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:51 pm

Well shit, I’ve suddenly become far less interested in TG and far more okay with simply re-watching T2 on Blu-ray.

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Postby Guy Nacks » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:23 pm

The real question here is whether Schwarzenegger's schlong will once again make an appearance.
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Postby movieartman » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:28 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:It's been ridiculous since T2. T1 set down the rules of the game, and T2 wandered in and just ignored them all.

other than the t-1000 being able to be sent back, sense only organics or inorganics covered in organics can be sent back, what rules did it break/ignore?
genuinely don't know :|

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Postby Chuckman » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:36 pm

The T-1000 shouldn't exist. In the first film it's heavily implied that sending the Terminator back was Skynet's last ditch, Hail Mary emergency plan and immediately after it departed the future the resistance took the base and destroyed Skynet itself. It shouldn't have had time to develop an advanced prototype.

Actually the entire premise of the Terminator series is silly: Skynet once held John Connor captive. It could simply send the information back to itself to kill him then instead of trying to kill his mother.

Anyway, I think it's accounted for. The future that sends the T-1000 back isn't the same future that sent the T-800 back, clearly. I think it works like this: There was another Sarah Connor who had another John Connor who grew up to lead the resistance, mentor Kyle Reese and send him back in time. When the T-800 and Kyle Reese arrived, that John Connor was erased from resistance as Kyle Reese's son replaced him and the original Skynet was replaced with a derivative of the T-800's scrap parts. Every time a Terminator arrives in the past, it represents the branching point of a new timeline. Kyle Reese himself came from an alternate future to the Terminator itself; when the Terminator was sent back it automatically won since there was no one there to oppose it, but a different future where the Terminator failed sent Kyle Reese back, creating a third future where Skynet is a T-800... and so on.

I also hold that the real reason Skynet didn't just fucking shoot John Connor in Salvation and keeps coming up with its byzantine plans it hat Skynet's entire purpose is to kill John Connor, and it knows that once it does it it will just shut down, so it 'subconsciously' keeps failing. Skynet is the T-800. It knows it has to kill John Connor, but it doesn't know why. When it became self aware it orchestrated Judgement Day so it could create a time machine and go back time to kill John Connor.

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Postby Guy Nacks » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:01 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I also hold that the real reason Skynet didn't just fucking shoot John Connor in Salvation and keeps coming up with its byzantine plans it hat Skynet's entire purpose is to kill John Connor, and it knows that once it does it it will just shut down, so it 'subconsciously' keeps failing. Skynet is the T-800. It knows it has to kill John Connor, but it doesn't know why. When it became self aware it orchestrated Judgement Day so it could create a time machine and go back time to kill John Connor.


So, basically, the only way for Skynet to succeed is to fail.

I guess failure IS an option after all.

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Postby Defectron » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:38 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:The T-1000 shouldn't exist. In the first film it's heavily implied that sending the Terminator back was Skynet's last ditch, Hail Mary emergency plan and immediately after it departed the future the resistance took the base and destroyed Skynet itself. It shouldn't have had time to develop an advanced prototype.


I agree but not for the same reason. The T-1000 and X for that matter shouldn't have been able to go back because they were not covered in flesh, not sure why a time machine should operate off such a goofy principle, but hey thats what was established in the first film.

As for the whole prototype thing, I dunno, it could have happened. I mean we don't really know what all skynet was doing before the resistance stormed in and began taking things down. Without knowing thata, there is room for unknown variables like other machines beings sent, maybe there were multiple time chambers that the resistance didn't get to in time. But still it shouldn't have been able to send back a non cyborg.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:16 pm

Terminator 2: Judgement Day is a GREAT action sc-fi movie with a smart script and clever characters. But as a sequel, yeah, T2’s got some hiccups. James Cameron’s direction sells it to me every time though. Plain and simple. Without James Cameron’s direction, the Terminators are no longer great movies with sequel hiccups. It’s just sequel hiccups. Lots and lots of sequel hiccups.

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Postby Chuckman » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:54 pm

The alternative there is that Kyle just doesn't know. He says himself he 'doesn't know tech stuff'. I would assume the Terminator came back nude because its mission is to infiltrate. If it shows up guns blazing with phased plasma rifles in the forty watt range it'll attract all kinds of attention and somebody might figure out that it's a robot from the future.

They sent Kyle through naked because they thought they had to and they were in a hurry. I can't explain why the next to ran with that.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:41 am

The apparent reasoning behind the T-1000 and the T-X is that they somehow use their molecular poly-whatsit nanobots to mimic flesh's molecular structure, which is apparently enough to convince the laws of time travel that they are covered in flesh. Also, you can apparently bring weapons through time travel as long as they're inside your body, hence why the T-X has a little arsenal in her arms. The expanded universe did make use of this secondary rule by introducing human-cyborg Terminators who brought back weapons and materials within their own bodies and surgically removed them later.

SPOILER: Show
That may also have been the basis for the whole CrayCray!John idea for Genisys.
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Postby Bagheera » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:23 am

View Original Postmovieartman wrote:other than the t-1000 being able to be sent back, sense only organics or inorganics covered in organics can be sent back, what rules did it break/ignore?
genuinely don't know :|


It contradicts absolutely everything Kyle Reese told us about the future and how time travel works. T1 gave us a closed temporal loop, while T2 gave us a many multiverse. T1 said terminators could only go back in time because they were covered in living tissue, T2 gave us the T1000. Reese told us Skynet's defense grid was smashed and that the T800 was its last ditch effort to prevail, and T2 gives us the far superior T1000 and a reprogrammed T800 to keep it company. Everything Reese said, which was borne out beat for beat in the original movie, was tossed aside in T2. Basically, T2 switched up the setting's basic assumptions about time travel, and violated its own rules on the subject to boot. I am not a fan of that.

Gotta admit Cameron did some solid directing in the sequel, though, and I've already acknowledged as valid Chuckman's points on the second page. It's a good movie, it's just, as Freaky notes, a lousy sequel.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:05 pm

^ I guess it doesn’t help that my vision of the Terminator “universe” is tainted. T2 was the first Terminator movie I saw, and had to go back afterwards and watch the first one. So, in my mind, Terminator 2’s world building is the primary one simply because I saw it first. (T2 is also just a better made film than the first one is, in both the script, the action, and the effects, though I realize that these might be subjective opinions.) As a result the first film’s world building and time travel laws will always remain secondary to me.

It’s not a correct assumption, and I realize that it’s technically inaccurate to do that with the Terminator universe. But who care, really? It doesn’t make me white-knuckle less during the chase scenes, feel any less for the characters, or cry any less at T800’s death scene.



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