Controversial Anime Opinions

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:31 am

The Wind Rises might very well be his best film.
It's not the easiest to love. The more outgoing protagonists & colorful fantastic worlds of his other films make those easy to enrapt your imagination but few films hit me on such an emotional & intellectual level as Rises.

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Postby SoryuUberAlles » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:24 am

"Klee painting named Angelus Novus shows an angel looking as though he is about to move away from something he is fixedly contemplating. His eyes are staring, his mouth is open, his wings are spread. This is how one pictures the angel of history. His face is turned toward the past. Where we perceive a chain of events, he sees one single catastrophe which keeps piling wreckage upon wreckage and hurls it in front of his feet. The angel would like to stay, awaken the dead, and make whole what has been smashed. But a storm is blowing from Paradise; it has got caught in his wings with such violence that the angel can no longer close them. The storm irresistibly propels him into the future to which his back is turned, while the pile of debris before him grows skyward. This storm is what we call progress." - Walter Benjamin

The wind is rising...
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Postby GAP » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:41 pm

I a beginning to develop a sort of contempt for Goku in super where it seems like he is a parody of himself. I know Goku was never a Superman style hero but it seems like his cluelessness has risen to new levels in Super and it makes a lot more foolish than he actually is in the original series. I mostly like Funimation!Goku myself but I will admit his original incarnation is a lot more nobler than I thought.
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Postby Retro Chocolate » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:31 pm

View Original PostGAP wrote:I a beginning to develop a sort of contempt for Goku in super where it seems like he is a parody of himself. I know Goku was never a Superman style hero but it seems like his cluelessness has risen to new levels in Super and it makes a lot more foolish than he actually is in the original series. I mostly like Funimation!Goku myself but I will admit his original incarnation is a lot more nobler than I thought.

Really? I thought that super Goku was just the same as always. We've just been getting more of a chance to see Goku in his normal life, rather than just fighting (he tends to be more serious when he fights). Then again, I've never really watched the dub, so I don't know how much they changed his character.
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Postby GAP » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:57 pm

View Original PostRetro Chocolate wrote:Really? I thought that super Goku was just the same as always. We've just been getting more of a chance to see Goku in his normal life, rather than just fighting (he tends to be more serious when he fights). Then again, I've never really watched the dub, so I don't know how much they changed his character.


I don't know Goku just seems to be a lot more reckless and "sillier" to me, he orders a hit on himself just so that he could a see said hitman's full power. Goku had always been silly but he seems to be a parody of himself in Super.
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Postby Alaska Slim » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:42 am

Super seems to be missing an opportunity to comment on Goku's character right now.


If Vegeta talking to the Universe 8 Saiyan was him showing how far from the villian he's become, then this here should be the moment where we finally see the "gray" of Goku's character come into the fore.

Here he is, with the raison d'etre of his character (fight stronger people to become stronger) being put against the welfare of the Universe. His will to fight is the reason Zen-oh is going to destroy the Universes that lose in the Tournament of power.

... and the tone the series is taking for all of this is "Well, that's Goku, things will work out somehow".

I mean, things haven't concluded yet, they could be aiming at a tonal shift soon enough... I just doubt they will. Not even the resigned fatalism of Bokurano's take of us vs them will enter into this I bet.


It's the closest Super has come to feeling as if it has actual stakes, but the writers just won't commit.
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Postby GAP » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:13 pm

I agree with you mostly but I am not sure that will ever happen considering that Toei/Toriyama/Toyotaro aren't really trying to portray Goku as a villain. I could be wrong consider how early into the arc that we are in but it would be a good opportunity to explore that aspect of Goku and his action effect the universe around him.
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Postby Defectron » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:36 am

Gokus always made dumb decsions that could screw over everyone around him but he's always had the best forest gump luck in all of anime in that no matter what he does everything always turns out fine. I havent really been keeping up with super, but I doubt that is going to change.
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Postby Bagheera » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:39 pm

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Here he is, with the raison d'etre of his character (fight stronger people to become stronger) being put against the welfare of the Universe. His will to fight is the reason Zen-oh is going to destroy the Universes that lose in the Tournament of power.


No, that's actually not true. The implication has been there for a while now, but in the most recent episode it was stated outright: those universes were going to be destroyed anyway. Goku's tournament just gave one of them a shot at survival. We can speculate endlessly on Toriyama's reasons for going this route, but the one thing that is now abundantly clear is that the universe erasure thing is Zen-Oh's gig alone. Goku had nothing to do with it, either directly or by association.
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Postby Retro Chocolate » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:33 am

View Original PostDefectron wrote:Gokus always made dumb decsions that could screw over everyone around him but he's always had the best forest gump luck in all of anime in that no matter what he does everything always turns out fine. I havent really been keeping up with super, but I doubt that is going to change.

Goku is intended to be an idiot. He's got better as the series went on, but he's still not exactly the brightest. He's also quite selfish and is more interested in fighting a strong opponent than saving the world. The reason everything turns out fine is because Goku is strong. It's somewhat lucky that most of his opponents tend to be weaker than him, but his overwhelming physical ability is why everything always seems to go right. Well, that and the Dragon Balls.
"That's not it at all. Trying to go on living is different than trying to escape fear. Those who acted in order to live until the end, without losing themselves to fear and what was happening around them, are the ones who survived properly. We don't know what "God" is thinking, but both fortune and misfortune are thrust upon people. Even so, people exist within a domain that is theirs in which to act."
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:52 pm

Question: Have the writers of Dragonball EVER committed to intelligent character writing in their universe? Seems like they're just doing the same old thing that has worked for like 30 years & people are still watching.

I mean it's a universe where the answer to most world threatening situations has rarely been idea driven & has mostly been sending the heroes off to a room somewhere to do push ups for a couple years. Then in the heat of the moment someone gets really angry & BOOM there's a new level of Super Saiyan.

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:01 pm

^No, that's basically it... Gohan is the smart one, and so is Piccolo, Krillin too, basically he knows when to run away, anything else is "Imma deck you in the schnoz"

As for the actual power levels, DBZA puts it best "Power Levels are bullshit" So the formula, new bad guy, get beat up, get pissed, new power level/power up (Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan or whatever the hell they call it now... the thing with blue hair). I mean Goku and Vegeta are both gods now... so not sure why they're even fighting anyone with their power, and it also makes any enemies that they have to fight being a reality ending kind of bad guy (all universes or whatever). There isn't much else, they've written themselves into a corner really. That and the female Broly shouldn't even be a challenge anymore with the power of a god, and we all know how this series ends, I'll put it in a spoiler for dramatic effect.
Like we don't already know :rolleyes:  SPOILER: Show
Goku pulls out a new form, maybe with white or green hair, or some other color, defeats the bad guys, gives them reprieves, maybe has to kill them, or Vegeta executes them... oh and then goes off and eats a shit ton of food with his bestie and son, because, Saiyans need to eat a lot. Oh, and someone (or a lot of people) dies and is brought back with the dragon balls.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:28 pm

It's a thin premise that wasn't really palatable to me until it was cut down to Dragonball Z Kai. And even then I don't think I ever finished it.
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Postby El Squibbonator » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:45 pm

Since most of us are just using this thread to gripe about shows we don't like, I'm going to instead offer a truly controversial anime opinion.
Gundam AGE . . . did not suck.

Wait, hear me out!
Granted, it wasn't the best of the Gundam series, but the way people talk about it you'd think it was the Plan 9 From Outer Space of anime. It's not. I think the reason a lot of people judge the show so harshly is because of its art style, which really does make it look like something for little kids. But if you watch it, you realize that just isn't true. In fact, the first main villain--a seven-year-old child--is one of the most depraved and psychotic characters in any Gundam series! I'd reveal more of the show's intricacies, but that would just be spoiling things at this point.
The show's not perfect--it is admittedly a bit cliched in places, for one thing-- but if you've watched the other series you could stand to watch this one. It wouldn't hurt.

On the subject of Dragon Ball, however, I never cared for it.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:55 pm

^I liked DBZ, and not Dragon Ball itself. But after the Cell Saga, things seemed quite good. Goku dead, Gohan strongest, Vegeta not as much of a dick, shame they dragged it on for another saga, and then GT and Super.

Although I have another anime opinion many people will find horrific, and I've been keeping it to myself for some time:
I dislike Ghost in the Shell. I mean the visuals in the original movie from 95 are stunning, but the story itself just seemed too much like Blade Runner mixed with Total Recall and Robocop to me. I just didn't like it.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:27 am

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:^No, that's basically it... Gohan is the smart one, and so is Piccolo, Krillin too, basically he knows when to run away, anything else is "Imma deck you in the schnoz"

As for the actual power levels, DBZA puts it best "Power Levels are bullshit" So the formula, new bad guy, get beat up, get pissed, new power level/power up (Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan or whatever the hell they call it now... the thing with blue hair). I mean Goku and Vegeta are both gods now... so not sure why they're even fighting anyone with their power, and it also makes any enemies that they have to fight being a reality ending kind of bad guy (all universes or whatever). There isn't much else, they've written themselves into a corner really. That and the female Broly shouldn't even be a challenge anymore with the power of a god, and we all know how this series ends, I'll put it in a spoiler for dramatic effect.
Like we don't already know :rolleyes:  SPOILER: Show
Goku pulls out a new form, maybe with white or green hair, or some other color, defeats the bad guys, gives them reprieves, maybe has to kill them, or Vegeta executes them... oh and then goes off and eats a shit ton of food with his bestie and son, because, Saiyans need to eat a lot. Oh, and someone (or a lot of people) dies and is brought back with the dragon balls.


The current Super arc directly contradicts this, so no.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:52 am

On Ghost in the Shell - I agree. The original 1995 film does have some effective sequences & visuals but like the movie Akira I find the character work to be empty, the narrative so-so, the direction mostly ponderous & the overall film to be a bit of a bore. It's not a bad movie & it achieves everything the director went after so I would never call it a failure, I just personally find it has been massively overrated BECAUSE it's a non-Ghibli anime film with a modicum amount of crossover appeal to larger audiences & anime fans tend to overpraise those movies or something. I think I've seen the original movie about 4 times now over the course of my life at different ages so it's not that I don't get it, I just find to be a slog of an experience. A very long 83 minutes.

As for the movie playing in theaters? That's hot garbage with only one redeeming sequence - Michael Wincott & RoboGheisa's - & is a film so racially tone deaf & ugly that any defense of it I can only read as someone saying "I'm okay with racism as long as it doesn't affect me." It's a terrible film though & through even if they cast the entire film appropriately.
Never seen the various Ghost in the Shell anime series or other films. Can't really be interested.

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Postby robersora » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:22 am

^
Ghost in the Shell boasts a few scenes, that are amazing. I'd even argue that no other film I know has a higher density of iconic and breathtaking scenes than Oshii's adaption of GitS. The problem is mostly what connects those scenes, but granted - there are far worse movies.
Akira, for instance is horrible to sit through. From character animation, that feels like the characters are constantly melting instead of moving (a problem of many Disney movies), to character design with faces uglier than an acid-accident and character writing so sleep inducing you're wondering how this became the big thing it is. Also, the plot/story makes my face go numb. It is a technical marvel, and the bike scene is one of the coolest things to come out of anime, but this movie remains a very time and place thing. If I was twelve when having seen it in 1989 I'd love it. But I've watched it at the age of 23 in the year 2015.
GitS 2017's best thing is its visual design. I think it's weirdly edited, but the overall look of the world I very much like.
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Postby GAP » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:22 pm

I may need to see the 2017 movie one day but I never heard of the 1995 movie being lacking flow in its visual design.
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Postby RadicalRandy » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:48 am

View Original Postrobersora wrote: Akira, for instance is horrible to sit through. From character animation, that feels like the characters are constantly melting instead of moving (a problem of many Disney movies), to character design with faces uglier than an acid-accident and character writing so sleep inducing you're wondering how this became the big thing it is. Also, the plot/story makes my face go numb. It is a technical marvel, and the bike scene is one of the coolest things to come out of anime, but this movie remains a very time and place thing. If I was twelve when having seen it in 1989 I'd love it. But I've watched it at the age of 23 in the year 2015.


Definitely. I watched Akira years ago (I'm not that old, so take that into consideration) and it was a struggle to watch through, making me really question its worldwide acclaim. I understand that the visuals were fantastic, especially given the times, but it did not entirely distract from the glaring plot issues.

In an unrelated note: I've finished Gurren Lagann. Or rather, I gave up near the end of it. Honestly, it was terrible and I was disappointed considering the amount of praise that it garnered. I thought it had some interesting plot features, but it felt like it quickly dropped those in favor of worse ones or fan-service moments. I also don't understand the relationship between Simon and Nia after the time skip, considering that their "romance" is an awkward, underdeveloped mess that feels very much like a cheap fanfiction ship. Oh, and the necessity for more drills got old.
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