シン, FINAL, :||, or 3.0 + 1.0?

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シン, FINAL, :||, or 3.0 + 1.0?

Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:01 pm

We should really decide on a naming convention for the fourth film, or at least narrow it down to one or two things. What, exactly, are we calling this one? My money's on Shin, personally. See here for why. It's also short, sweet, and sorta accurate. Thoughts?

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Postby Reichu » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:29 pm

Ever since "Final" was taken out behind the khara building and shot, I've switched to Shin. I'm pretty sure this is what the Japanese have defaulted to using in lieu of Jo/Ha/Q. Not to mention, the actual equivalent of Jo/Ha/Q (the repeat symbol) is not pronounced (cf. the preview at the end of 3.0) and requires a special symbol to accurately render.

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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:40 pm

Technically "Final" is still being used because if you go to http://www.evangelion.co.jp/ and click on :3.0+1.0 it will take you to http://www.evangelion.co.jp/final.html

However I am all for using シン because really we should have been using whatever Japan uses all along. "Final" is too long. Same with 1.0/2.0/3.0 or hell 1.11/2.22/3.33. Jo/Ha/Q requires much less effort to type.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:15 pm

I suspect that unless the 3+1 really takes off, we'll end up still using FINAL like we still use Rebuild.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:47 pm

3+1 is a pain to type, not to mention confusing. "4.0" has been ditched. "Final" seems to be clinging on to a bare existence in a link and little more. "Shin" is the one I'm going to go with. Unlike "Rebuild", we're not locked into using "Final" or "4.0", so the switch to "Shin" is no trouble.
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Postby Ray » Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:04 pm

Im calling it Final until the actual movie gets here.
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Postby pwhodges » Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:29 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Ever since "Final" was taken out behind the khara building and shot, I've switched to Shin. I'm pretty sure this is what the Japanese have defaulted to using in lieu of Jo/Ha/Q.

But "Shin" is no more the name of the film than "Final" is, so why change from one incorrect name to another? Jo/Ha/Q were at least official.

I think I shall stop using any name at all and just talk about "the next film".
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Postby Reichu » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:16 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:But "Shin" is no more the name of the film than "Final" is, so why change from one incorrect name to another? Jo/Ha/Q were at least official.

Who said anything about it being unofficial?

The Japanese title of the film is "Shin Evangelion Gekijouban :||", with "Shin" written in ambiguous katakana (シン) in typical Anno fashion and placed at the front of the title. Contrast to what was in the titles of the previous films: ヱヴァンゲリヲン新劇場版 (Evangelion Shingekijouban, with "shin" being the kanji for "new" and obviously modifying "gekijouban").

View Original PostTMBounty_Hunter wrote:Technically "Final" is still being used because if you go to http://www.evangelion.co.jp/ and click on :3.0+1.0 it will take you to http://www.evangelion.co.jp/final.html

Mayhaps the webmasters were too lazy to code a redirect. :p

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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:19 am

If the "Shin" is ambiguous, what else can it mean? (I'm guessing one of them has something to do with death.)
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Postby Blue Monday » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:35 am

3.0+1.0 is some goofy fucking shit, so I'm just going to stick to Final.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:45 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:If the "Shin" is ambiguous, what else can it mean? (I'm guessing one of them has something to do with death.)


I think there might be some indication in this ancient discussion on Shinji's name -

http://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/oldeva/1998-February/010248.html

If "Shin" is "true", that's a good reason for the Katakana usage. "New/true Evangelion Theatrical Edition".
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Postby Bagheera » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:55 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:The Japanese title of the film is "Shin Evangelion Gekijouban :||", with "Shin" written in ambiguous katakana (シン) in typical Anno fashion and placed at the front of the title.


I don't see how it says anything different, though the nuance in Japanese is probably significant. But in any event if that's the complete official title I would think Final is as valid as Shin, since the symbol for "final" or "end" is still a part of it.
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Postby pwhodges » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:09 am

In any case, isn't the "shin" a part of the name of the series of films wherever it is placed, with the word or sign at the end denoting the particular one? If so, using "shin" instead of "final" for the next film is a bizarre decision, even if the Japanese are doing it.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:41 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:In any case, isn't the "shin" a part of the name of the series of films wherever it is placed, with the word or sign at the end denoting the particular one? If so, using "shin" instead of "final" for the next film is a bizarre decision, even if the Japanese are doing it.

The final film is doing something different with the "shin" in its title, as I mentioned. It's setting itself apart from the previous three films on that account, not unlike how the international title is using the weird "plus" thing. Also, as I've noted, "Shin" is easy to write and has an actual pronunciation. Recall that when Misato spoke the title in the preview at the end of 3.0, the :|| or || thing had no spoken equivalent. (Anno could have easily used furigana to fix a pronunciation, and thereby a meaning, to it, but odds are he prefers us to not know whether or not we should interpret the colon as part of the symbol.)

Bagheera: You hit the "Disables Smilies in this post" check box. Also not sure how you come to the conclusion that the symbol means the movie is still called "Final", when the symbol isn't pronounced and, to make things worse, it could be interpreted two different ways (with or without the colon).

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:33 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Bagheera: You hit the "Disables Smilies in this post" check box. Also not sure how you come to the conclusion that the symbol means the movie is still called "Final", when the symbol isn't pronounced and, to make things worse, it could be interpreted two different ways (with or without the colon).


I forget: was the colon spaced the way it was for all the other movies, or was it placed differently (either apart from the rest of the title, or specifically with the symbol)? I seem to recall is was placed evenly between the title and the symbol, which is what led to the "Final" title to begin with.

Either way, pronunciation or no the symbol is the title, in the same way Jo/Ha/Q are for their respective movies. "Shin" is just Anno playing with us, as usual (though I don't blame anyone who goes that route; as you note, it actually has a pronunciation and seems to be significant. But I'm a fan of consistency, hobgoblin or no, so I'm sticking with the symbol and it's perceived meaning for now).
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Postby Reichu » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:30 am

Bagheera: Looking at the official site (since I haven't been maintaining my files lately), the... colonic... spacing in the 4th movie title suggests that :|| is, typographically at least, a single entity. This is classified as a musical repeat sign, so its principal meaning would not lend support to the continued zombiefication of the "Final" title. I am, however, positive that Anno is being a rascal here, so the colon could also be read as a title:subtitle separator, with the symbol thus being a bar. (I will support any motion to refer to the film as "Bar".) With the symbol intentionally left ambiguous, however, it doesn't quite seem proper to force one interpretation upon it in everyday discourse.

Note that the entirety of the title is Anno playing with us. It doesn't follow the previous naming scheme, so it's not exactly correct to say that :|| corresponds to Jo/Ha/Q.

I'm going to surmise that the crew calls it "Shin"; I'd be very surprised if this weren't the case.

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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:33 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:I'm going to surmise that the crew calls it "Shin"; I'd be very surprised if this weren't the case.

This is supported by a book on Yamashita's shelf: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/16623/Not-actual-news-thread/
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Postby Reichu » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:39 am

View Original PostTMBounty_Hunter wrote:This is supported by a book on Yamashita's shelf: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/16623/Not-actual-news-thread/

"Shin Eva" more specifically, which makes sense. I wonder if, in a conversational context, they say "Shin Eva" every time, or eventually shorten it to "Shin"? It's not terribly important, but my brain muses about such things.

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:53 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Bagheera: Looking at the official site (since I haven't been maintaining my files lately), the... colonic... spacing in the 4th movie title suggests that :|| is, typographically at least, a single entity. This is classified as a musical repeat sign, so its principal meaning would not lend support to the continued zombiefication of the "Final" title. I am, however, positive that Anno is being a rascal here, so the colon could also be read as a title:subtitle separator, with the symbol thus being a bar. (I will support any motion to refer to the film as "Bar".) With the symbol intentionally left ambiguous, however, it doesn't quite seem proper to force one interpretation upon it in everyday discourse.


Poking around a bit, it seems the right bracket means "end repeat", which suggests some finality to the matter. However, it also seems that if there is no left bracket it means repeat the entire song, start to finish! That could suggest a loop theory in the works, one that will be resolved in the last film (no endless loops, since the "end" portion of that symbol is unambiguous).

I admit "Final" is not the best title in light of this, since that's not what :|| means. And of course, I understand that "End Repeat" is a dorky title. But "Shin" doesn't really mean anything substantial (beyond "New" or "True"), so it doesn't seem like a good choice either (and yes, I realize the staff are using it, but they were using "Rebuild", too, and that didn't turn out to be the title of anything other than an extra on a DVD). I guess it's as official as we're going to get, but for my money :||'s still where it's at. And at least I know how to write it now, so there's that.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:00 pm

If you're interested, Bags, there's a whole slew of theories about the possible 'end' meanings of the colon a few pages back in the normal Rebuild forum.

OT: Might it just be best to accept a range of titles until we get more definite info on what the actual title will be?


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