The Eva 3.0+1.0 Title

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Postby FluffyBunny » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:03 pm

I agree that 4 is generally avoided (that's true in certain other Asian countries), but for Mr. Anno perhaps that should not apply. For one thing he had intentionally chosen "shi to shinsei" -- which could either be death(shi) and(to) rebirth or a birth of an angel(shito)..

*edit* I mean, that wasn't a number 4 but at least once Mr. Anno used "death" in the title.

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Postby Reichu » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:18 pm

FluffyBunny: There's also the compilation movie "DEATH" and episode 16 "Sickness Unto Death".

View Original PostJäeger wrote:Another proof that people overanalyze things

Due to confirmation bias, the human brain has a natural proclivity toward developing superstitious beliefs. It's when actual analysis gets involved that humans hopefully start to realize that it's nonsense they shouldn't take seriously. :p

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Postby Chuckman » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:29 pm

Rationality is a weaponized concept devised by two dimensional demons to keep us trapped in the material prison.
the prophecy is true

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Postby LightDragonman » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:46 pm

Once again, if 3.0 + 1.0 really is just 4.0 / FINAL, then I'm just gonna say it; this is one of the most pretentious titles for a fourth film I've ever seen.
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Postby Chuckman » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:00 am

Why do you feel it's pretentious?
the prophecy is true

Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

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Postby LightDragonman » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:33 am

I mean, if 3.0 + 1.0 really is just FINAL, then what's exactly wrong with just calling it 4.0, rather than the equation that equals it?

Just feels as though Anno's really reaching for symbolism.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:43 am

4.0 was never publicly considered by Khara as a title for FINAL. They've always seemed to be heading somewhere than just the next number with this series. Calling it 4.0/4.44 would just be cheap and lazy, with no real indicator of an ending or even a culmination of ideas in the title itself. 3.0 + 1.0 at least suggests something specific and culminating has been prepared for the last installment of this series.

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Postby Jäeger » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:05 am

As I expected, when it's related to EVA, people will never accept the easiest answer as the right one.

And yeah, 3.0 + 1.0 it's a pretentious way to avoid 4.0. As cheap as lazy as 4.0, but pretentious too. Anno is not Kubrick, he is not a genius.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:36 am

^ So, just how much of Anno's works have you actually seen?

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Postby Rosenakahara » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:57 am

View Original PostJäeger wrote:he is not a genius.

I will have to disagree.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:18 am

Anno dropped out of college, so I guess one can make an argument against Anno's perceived genius from that. On the other hand, Kubrick admitted in a radio interview in the 60's (after directing 2001: ASO) that he wasn't even smart enough to get into college. So maybe he isn't a genius either. Or they might both be geniuses in a way for-profit education systems can't (or won't) recognize.

Looking at Anno's works it's hard ignore his genius in film and narrative form. Heck, he shot Love & Pop with 2 different kinds of cameras just to evoke different senses of honesty vs idealism throughout the narrative. It's hard to not call that creative choice and technical discernment genius.

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Postby Chuckman » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:14 pm

Lots of really smart and talented people drop out of college. If you're already beyond that level it tends to be a waste of time.

Eva has a level of complexity such that the 'simplest answer' i.e. a surface reading is not so much wrong as a glib dismissal of depth that is clearly there.
the prophecy is true

Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:41 pm

I think people who throw around the word pretentious like it's confetti are themselves pretentious.

Honestly the title doesn't bother me. It's no worse then the full title of Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion. Now everyone just refers to as The End of Evangelion or EOE & everyone knows what they're talking about. When the movie has a full title most will probably call it whatever the English You Can (Not) subtitle is.

Call it 4, call it Final, call it 3.0 + 1.0. They all work. Attacking it now seems silly. I mean no one was attacking the first three films when they tossed the English subtitle on them. That'd be like if a movie in the States tossed a Japanese kanji sentence onto the end of their title.

The titles are fun. Whatevs.

Besides, it's not like any movie title in the history of the world will ever be dumber than Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice.

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Postby Bagheera » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:41 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Lots of really smart and talented people drop out of college. If you're already beyond that level it tends to be a waste of time.

Eva has a level of complexity such that the 'simplest answer' i.e. a surface reading is not so much wrong as a glib dismissal of depth that is clearly there.


Yup. Measuring genius by level of education is misleading, both for the reasons you mention and for the reverse -- even graduate level of education is less a sign of intelligence than it is simple competence and perseverance. When it comes to artistic genius it isn't even relevant.
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Jäeger » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:50 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:^ So, just how much of Anno's works have you actually seen?


All of them, and I'm not gonna change my mind : pretentious. Not in a 2001/Apocalypse Now/ Blade Runner but in a "I can see your intention and your obssesion to tell us a message from thousands of miles away". Love & Pop a good example.
Do american "cool" people know that in Europe only alcoholics and homeless drink wine without food by its side???

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Postby Chuckman » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:12 pm

How is that pretentious?
the prophecy is true

Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:46 pm

I'll let my pal Franny Ford put this discussion into a filmmaker's context, from 0:00-1:00.

Anno's accomplished enough well regarded creative works that it's very hard to call him a pretentious filmmaker without sounding like a bit of a snob. I'll be the first to admit that he whole rebuild effort has, for me, felt lacking so far in a lot of areas that made NGE such a triumphant work of art. I'm still awaiting final judgement on the series as a whole until after FINAL comes out, but I don't think it's proper to call him pretentious just yet. If FINAL fails, then I guess it would be more warranted.
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And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby Bagheera » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:02 pm

View Original PostJäeger wrote:All of them, and I'm not gonna change my mind : pretentious. Not in a 2001/Apocalypse Now/ Blade Runner but in a "I can see your intention and your obssesion to tell us a message from thousands of miles away". Love & Pop a good example.


There is no definition of "pretentious" for which this makes a lick of sense.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby StarShaper7 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:06 pm

^^ Man, his shirtless, hairy, somewhat chubby form is mesmerizing and adds to the awesomeness of that video.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:24 pm

View Original PostJäeger wrote:All of them, and I'm not gonna change my mind : pretentious. Not in a 2001/Apocalypse Now/ Blade Runner but in a "I can see your intention and your obssesion to tell us a message from thousands of miles away". Love & Pop a good example.

Unfortunately for your argument, that’s not the definition of “pretentious.” That’s the definition of “predictable.” As seeing as how all fictional narratives (including Kubrick’s works) are only the same 12 basic plots retold and recycled, it can’t truly be said that being predictable is even a bad thing. Heck, filmmakers such as Hitchcock and Anno use the anticipation of foreseeable events in order to build suspense and tension in their films. One can’t feel nervous for a character unless we either suspect or even know the awful things that might happen to them. (See Hitchcock’s Sabotage and Episode 18 of Anno’s Neon Genesis Evangelion for examples of the audience’s predictions working in favor of the filmmaker building tension in said audience.) And even less capable filmmakers use the predictability of certain narratives in order to create spoofs or parodies of entire genres, such as Cabin in the Woods, and in the hands of more capable filmmakers these spoofs that rely upon predictability even go on to become classics in their own right, such as Stanley Kubrick’s Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb.

To better argue terms in the future, one must understand them. Pretentious comes from the Latin word “praetendo” (from prae: “before, in front of” + tendō: “stretch, strive for”.) The definitions of this word is as follows:

1. I stretch forth or forward; I extend.
2. I spread before, hold out, place in front of.
3. I put forward as an excuse, allege, pretend.

Throughout the adaptations of this word throughout the languages it finally rested upon the English definition of “making usually unjustified or excessive claims (as of value or standing).” Richard Watts used it saying, “The pretentious fraud who assumes a love of culture that is alien to him.” This is to place the term “pretentious” as a word that defines those who think they know what they’re talking about, but actually don’t, resulting in an exaggeration of the importance of a work or an object. (Think of someone who wouldn’t even know what colors were stating, “The color green is life. The color green is love.”)

When fully realizing the meaning of this word, one can see that Anno isn’t in fact pretentious. His works don’t pretend to be something that they’re not. Even though this new NTE series isn’t as thoughtful or as philosophical as the original NGE, it isn’t pretending to be so either. It simply exists, waiting to be judged by its own merits and intentions.

If anything can be said about Anno is that he’s thorough. He examines the narrative (whether it be original to him or derivative of something else) and considers how every aspect of the motion-picture and sound can be used to convey the narrative. Sometimes it’s something as simple and as subconsciously effective as using home video cameras to convey a sense of reality in the contemporary portions of Love & Pop, and other times it’s to use better looking film cameras to portray an idealized a future trip to the beach. Neither are drawing any more attention to themselves and the fact that they’re being used. In fact, most people might consciously miss this fact on their first viewing. But their subconscious notices it, and it does effect their emotional response ever so slightly towards the filmmaker’s subjectivity.

Heck, even if Anno's “3.0 + 1.0” title only exists to avoid using “4.0” because it might be seen as meaning “Death,” then so be it. If the film isn’t about death, then why leave open the opportunity for miscommunication of the slightest kind to cause people to misinterpret his work as being about death? To leave open the opportunity for miscommunication in art when you see how it could be avoided entirely is just plain lazy. Not even Chris Miller and Phil Lord are that lazy, and they make movies for children.

Edit: There's been talk on another thread about EvaGeeks' "good old days." Strangely enough I'm getting déjà vu from yet another "Pretention 'War'." :lol:
Last edited by FreakyFilmFan4ever on Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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