Thread splitting: Why?

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Postby NemZ » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:26 am

Close enough. Especially that ending verse sounds a lot like... "I'm going nowhere. Somebody help me out?" :nyao:

On that note though... where the hell is this thread going?

I'm not blaming anybody... surely I didn't help there... but come on people, this is getting ridiculous. This thread is so meandering and interwoven that I don't know how to even begin trying to split it up, nor do I have any desire to kill, but can we just agree to get back to the stuff about science = magic and how that relates to the FAR and UbeRei as godlike creat(ors/ions) of nonexistent sciences please?
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:28 am

In my opinion, the thread can get split here.

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:44 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:On that note though... where the hell is this thread going?

Sometimes a thread doesn't need splitting or redirecting, it just is.

So for once, how about taking a rest from the (admittedly largely appropriate in this forum) near obsession with forcing every thread to be on one single subject, 'k?
Last edited by pwhodges on Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:49 am

While this is hardly the place for forum discussion, since you brought it up:

Nobody who joins the forums at a later date looking for information on the series is going to want to pore through threads looking for all the tiny droplets of information on myriad topics. By separating the forum into threads, we can tell people where to look for specific discussions or information.

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:54 am

That's why I said "largely appropriate". But this is a forum, not the wiki, where the information is really organised; it's precisely by bouncing ideas around that new perspectives are (occasionally) found - it's called brain-storming, and too much discipline in the wrong place can kill it stone dead. Also, searching is a thing, and far more effective when really looking for something than trawling through twenty pages of even totally on-topic posts.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:56 am

Oh, I agree with you about the creativity that the forum fosters. Too much regulation will indeed kill it "stone dead", as you put it. However, for this particular thread, which is the issue at hand, my opinion is that a split would be productive.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:01 pm

I would say "TOPIC, BITCHES" if we could agree what that was any more.

In the old days when these were the EvaMonkey forums, the thread would have been locked for digression many pages ago.
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Postby Rei IV » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:18 pm

Maybe another split is in order about Anno's intent vs. viewer interpretation/Death of the Author?
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Postby Sorrow » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:18 pm

Why all this splitting and locking? I quite enjoy the natural progression of discussing. Even when reading some stuff back, sometimes it answers more. If you're reading an old thread for a simple answer, then the Wiki is really the place for that; if you're looking for people's thoughts and opinions on a matter, and where those may lead, then reading something like this can be good.

Forcing everyone to adhere to a single topic can be stifling, and splitting a topic out can cause some to lose interest in the digression and perhaps return to the topic at hand, which others may have lost interest in. Rules is rules, but I think by not being completely strict can be beneficial.

NemZ wrote:can we just agree to get back to the stuff about science = magic and how that relates to the FAR and UbeRei as godlike creat(ors/ions) of nonexistent sciences please?
So you were more interested in that all along and your splitting and locking is an attempt to have the discussion you want?

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Postby NemZ » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:30 pm

View Original PostSorrow wrote:Why all this splitting and locking?


Because when a conversation drifts too far the original purpose, which some may still be interested in, the original gets buried under all the noise. Splitting things up lets both (or in this case, all three) threads exist without getting in each other's way.

Rules is rules, but I think by not being completely strict can be beneficial.


Which is why I broadened the topic originally to allow some extra leeway as long as it stayed somewhat around the original core idea. Which it clearly didn't.

So you were more interested in that all along and your splitting and locking is an attempt to have the discussion you want? Has the power made its way to your head?


That's the discussion the OP wanted to have, not me; I'm just along for the ride. Splitting and locking things, essentially pruning this wild thorn bush we call a forum in the hope of making it more bonsai-like, is largely what the power is for. So no, I don't think it has 'gone to my head'.
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Postby ThanatosII » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:41 pm

This is an issue that many online forums face and I've seen it challenged over and over without much resolution.
In some ways, I do see Sorrow's side, as conversations tend to have a natural 'drift' to them; that's how face to face conversations happen at least. On the other hand, if we didn't have locking and splits, we might as well have one massive thread and that's it, let the conservation flow. That of course is absurd and its the reason such moderation is required.
I believe the biggest issue is when a thread derails into chatroom stuff, and thus should have some regulation when that happens. However, with such prior event, I find it admirable that while we were off topic to a degree, it still maintained a degree of being ontopic, as Chuckman pointed out.

But alas, this is a tricky problem to tackle, as EGF isn't the only forum on the net with such problems. Until someone can reinvent the wheel, there's not much we solve by simply discussing this matter.
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Postby Sorrow » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:45 pm

NemZ wrote:no, I don't think it has 'gone to my head'.

I was just checking. You never know when you may lose someone dear.

The conversation did rapidly turn to the question of canonicity (just a few comments in) and how we approach it, though. Still, I do appreciate the point that the original poster wanted to have a different conversation. Though, it's better that it gets derailed than a conversation you enjoy gets locked - at least they could still participate.
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Postby NemZ » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:48 pm

You'll note that now that all the splits are complete none of the branches are locked, yes?

A forum structure that allows for branching nested replies would be better suited to free-wheeling discussions, but they also tend to be a lot less casually readable. Also people would inevitably reply cross-streams anyway, so we'd still need moderation. Also Ornette will likely reach through my monitor and strangle me for making such a suggestion.

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:53 pm

As the sole admin and chief mod for a forum of a similar size and traffic to this for the past several years, I understand perfectly the reasons why this is done. I have also had to do it. On the whole my policy has been to be appreciably looser than the mods here - but although I chafed under the discipline here for a while, I've come to accept it as a valid balance, well and relatively consistently maintained.

So from me, a thumbs up for the mod team, even when they irritate me!!

(Doesn't mean I don't push the boundaries far enough to get a PM occasionally, though...)
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Postby Rei IV » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:19 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:You'll note that now that all the splits are complete none of the branches are locked, yes?

A forum structure that allows for branching nested replies would be better suited to free-wheeling discussions, but they also tend to be a lot less casually readable. Also people would inevitably reply cross-streams anyway, so we'd still need moderation. Also Ornette will likely reach through my monitor and strangle me for making such a suggestion.

Such is life. :ritsuko_mug:

I think that post would have much more effect without the Ritz smile.

:hahaha:

BTW, great thread surgeon skills! You're becoming on par with Monk Ed!

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Postby Meerkat » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:38 am

Currently in one of the threads that were split from the one I started people are asking "what are we even talking about"? I get that discussions inevidably drift and become something else (which is fine) but it seems to me that splits often cause as much confusion they're meant to resolve.
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Postby Chuckman » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:30 am

I vote for the merger of all threads into the Instrumentality of Threadkind.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:53 pm

Let everything return to nothing.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

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Postby NemZ » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:37 pm

What you're describing is a chatroom. This is specifically not that.

@Meercat: I have a feeling he'd be asking the same thing even if they weren't split.
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"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:44 pm

Indeed -- there's no shortage of intact threads where the discussion becomes muddled and people start asking some version of that "what the heck were we talking about?" question.


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