Who will die in Final.

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Postby xanderkh » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:17 pm

^

Dude, you think EVERY type of life, unless said life is super rich, super privileged, with no way to experience pain or consequences, is empty and disgraceful with a forced smile. Really, who's the shallow one here?
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
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Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

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Postby Stillborn » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:24 pm

Not every type. Shinji's type.
Another jaded man.
Wciąż stoję nieruchomo, w nieżywym już szeregu. Umieram na stojąco, niech inni giną w biegu.

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:25 pm

View Original PostStillborn wrote:^^

About this, we just have differen't outlook. You see his life as happy or sufficent. I see it as disgraceful and empty, with forced smile. It's just how we interpret "living what's forced on you".


Nope, wrong. That would be the case if he was forced, but he wasn't. He chose to live for his own reasons, and you don't get to tell him they're wrong because it's his life, not yours. He decides what he can live with and whether or not he's happy, not you.

And that's the worst ending. Every other ending is unambiguously happy, in one case triumphant. This is not a matter of interpretation, as what you're saying is simply not correct.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:05 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:That has proven not to be the case in every single iteration of the franchise, so no.

Well, we are discussing Anno’s influence on the franchise, not other authors/manga artists/video game creators/ect.

Though, Anno having his lead characters survive his stories didn’t always end depressingly either. The ending of Nadia is really up-beat and positive despite it being clear that the lead characters are survivors of a rather epic battle. Love & Pop makes you earn its happy ending, and when watched with the music video afterwards, the ending gets even happier. Cutie Honey is just fun all around, and GunBuster’s ending is so emotionally overwhelming in a positive way that, when taken by itself, it almost overshadows most of his other works.

Honestly, of all of Anno’s works, EoE is his only bleak and depressing one. Everything else he’s directed leave you with a feeling everything between a well-deserved comfort and an overwhelming sense of joy.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:13 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Everything else he’s directed leave you with a feeling everything between a well-deserved comfort and an overwhelming sense of joy.

...you watched Evangelion Q, right? :tongue:

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:23 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:...you watched Evangelion Q, right? :tongue:


That story hasn't ended yet, though.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:24 pm

Indeed it hasn't. Fair point.

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Postby xanderkh » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:31 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:...you watched Evangelion Q, right? :tongue:


Which is still only the 3rd act of an unfinished story. Like every great movie, there has to be a low point for a character to rise from. :) Empire Strikes Back? The Two Towers?
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Postby Stillborn » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:36 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Well, we are discussing Anno’s influence on the franchise, not other authors/manga artists/video game creators/ect.

Though, Anno having his lead characters survive his stories didn’t always end depressingly either. The ending of Nadia is really up-beat and positive despite it being clear that the lead characters are survivors of a rather epic battle. Love & Pop makes you earn its happy ending, and when watched with the music video afterwards, the ending gets even happier. Cutie Honey is just fun all around, and GunBuster’s ending is so emotionally overwhelming in a positive way that, when taken by itself, it almost overshadows most of his other works.

Honestly, of all of Anno’s works, EoE is his only bleak and depressing one. Everything else he’s directed leave you with a feeling everything between a well-deserved comfort and an overwhelming sense of joy.


But Eva is a "milestone" and most memorable of his work, exactly because how it beats it characters and then leaves them with "Be happy with what you have" cliche.
Another jaded man.
Wciąż stoję nieruchomo, w nieżywym już szeregu. Umieram na stojąco, niech inni giną w biegu.

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Postby Ray » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:39 pm

Someone should cut and paste this into the "Shinji Is (Not) Doomed" Thread.

@Nuke
Eva doesn't feel like the kind of show that would kill off the main protag, and particularly so because the character is Shinji. The whole point is to have him live and learn how to be happy.


My biggest worry for the ending is as Kendrix said it once. "It would be a purely Philosophical victory". Come off as hollow and cheap. Which IMO would be worse than him dying.
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Postby Bagheera » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:45 pm

View Original PostStillborn wrote:But Eva is a "milestone" and most memorable of his work, exactly because how it beats it characters and then leaves them with "Be happy with what you have" cliche.


Now you're just moving the goalposts. You said Anno always does this and it's been demonstrated that he doesn't (and in fact has done it exactly once). Now you know better, so stop saying it.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:52 pm

View Original PostStillborn wrote:But Eva is a "milestone" and most memorable of his work, exactly because how it beats it characters and then leaves them with "Be happy with what you have" cliche.

Honestly, I’m still not sure why Eva became as popular as it did. Heck, not even its creators know why. The most concrete answer I can come up with is that Nadia was already popular among Japanese fans of animation, and they knew Eva was handled by the same creative group within GAINAX. But beyond that, I can’t say with authority “It’s popular because X.” If NGE never existed and Anno was currently in production of NGE, making it look exactly as we know it does now, I’m not even sure it would gain as much traction now as it did then.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:24 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Honestly, I’m still not sure why Eva became as popular as it did. Heck, not even its creators know why. The most concrete answer I can come up with is that Nadia was already popular among Japanese fans of animation, and they knew Eva was handled by the same creative group within GAINAX. But beyond that, I can’t say with authority “It’s popular because X.” If NGE never existed and Anno was currently in production of NGE, making it look exactly as we know it does now, I’m not even sure it would gain as much traction now as it did then.



I can come up with several reasons off the top of my head, barring items that would be of interest only to filmmakers like editing, cinematography, music, framing, and whatnot, but the main point being that it offered something for a wide variety of target audiences.

-Episodes often end on cliffhangers or after major events, and having the first episode end on one was a brilliant way to hook the audience in for the second.

-It doesn't play to many traditional "male action hero" tropes, so girls are more likely to watch it (I was introduced to Eva through a girl)

-It offers enough creative action and energetic sequences to pander to a little boys and action nuts, plus give the show a fresh punch of energy in frequent enough doses.

-It has a strong focus on characters and their development, which helps those connect more with the show and care about what happens week after week. Plus, the characters are diverse, each with definable personalities.

-Its plot is mysterious and we're peppered with hints as to what's going on behind the scenes, again keeping viewers tuned in week after week. The mindscape and introspective sequences offer audiences something they aren't used to seeing.

-Its core message appeals to the very fabric of humanity and our relationships with one another. Everyone is able to relate to it.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:32 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:-Its plot is mysterious and we're peppered with hints as to what's going on behind the scenes, again keeping viewers tuned in week after week. The mindscape and introspective sequences offer audiences something they aren't used to seeing.


IOW it's what J. J. Abrams tries to do, but it actually delivers instead of stringing audiences along for months on end before wussing out at the end.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Ray » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:33 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:IOW it's what J. J. Abrams tries to do, but it actually delivers instead of stringing audiences along for months on end before wussing out at the end.


I thought you were supporting Anno.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!

Avatar:
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby Guy Nacks » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:35 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:I thought you were supporting Anno.


He's bashing Abrams. Read the sentence again. There was a huge hush-hush around STID, remember? JJ was very secretive about it.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby Ray » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:38 pm

Yeah, that was BS. What he did to Khan was unforgivable.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!

Avatar:
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby Guy Nacks » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:50 pm

Yeah, I was with the first half of STID and then everything went downhill. I swear, if the next Trek movie is another revenge film, I'm not buying a ticket. They've done that plot THREE films in a row now...since fucking Nemesis.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:44 pm

The next Trek movie is going to be more Truther nonsense. It's being directed by Roberto Orci who aside from being a terrible writer also believes 9/11 was an inside job. He also was a decent enough person to tweet the Boston Bombing last year was another secret government mission mere moments after the explosions happened.

Anywho - back on topic.

In regards to who dies in Final. I don't have much hope for anyone on the Wunder. With Evangelion Unit 01 acting as the central engine you just know at some point she's gonna come bursting out of there with a righteous fury.

So either everyone will die or no one will die.

But an Ayanami. ... Cause an Ayanami always dies.

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:42 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:The next Trek movie is going to be more Truther nonsense. It's being directed by Roberto Orci who aside from being a terrible writer also believes 9/11 was an inside job. He also was a decent enough person to tweet the Boston Bombing last year was another secret government mission mere moments after the explosions happened.


Whelp, that guarantees the next Trek won't even be on my radar. Its chances were slim to begin with, but whatever chance it had got completely torpedoed thanks to that tidbit.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


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