Shinji Is (not) Doomed? Discuss.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Shinji Is (not) Doomed? Discuss.

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Postby Ray » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:51 pm

Gundam is Star Wars. Macross is Star Trek. Eva is 2001: A Space Odyssey. . .with t&a and Giant Robots.

But back to the topic:

3.0 basically destroyed all hope for Shinji getting the happy ending he's deserved since the original series. How can you come back after being guilty of a crime of THIS Magnitude? Simply put, you can't. Noone is going to ever trust him again after all he's done. Whether it was of his own intent or being manipulated into it by his father, HE is the one who caused two Impacts, and nearly destroyed the planet, He's the one who pulled the spears. There's nothing anyone can do to atone for the deaths of Billions of innocent people, and on top of that giving the enemy exactly what he needs to finish ending the world? Assuming he even survives the events of the Rebuilds he's likely gonna have to live with that guilt until the day he dies.

On top of all that being nothing but a bad memory to those he loved for Fourteen years?

Not that I think 4.0 is going to end with an EOE scenario, or be all grimdark and doom, gloom, and despair but I highly doubt it's gonna be the happy ending Shinji deserves. The events of 3.0 pretty much all but sealed Shinji's fate, the rest of us are just gonna have to see how he deals with it.
Last edited by Ray on Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:00 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:3.0 basically destroyed all hope for Shinji getting the happy ending he's deserved since the original series.


Do we really need to hear this same tired rant again? Do you think repetition will change peoples' minds or something? At this point we need a copypasta to save ourselves the time and effort of debunking this nonsense.
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Postby Ray » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:05 pm

Alright fine, Jeez.

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Postby Chuckman » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:08 pm

Kind of how The Empire Strikes Back meant everybody died and was sad and the Emperor peed on Luke.
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Postby Stillborn » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:53 pm

Luke was "the hero" character. Shinji is a fifth wheel that nobody wants. AND is guilty of accidential mass murder AND another accidential attempt at armageddon. Portrayed as clinicaly stupid and metaphorically neutered. That's rather different from Star Wars situation :tongue:
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Postby Ray » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:03 pm

@Chuckman
Well, if we're going for star wars comparisons. . .

If Empire had been like 3.0: Luke would have been responsible for exposing the Rebel base to the Empire attempting to save Leia from death. and in doing so accidentally caused the deaths of almost the entire rebel alliance, Han, Chewie, and the Rebel Leaders would have blamed him for their loss called him a brat and had him courtmartialed and sentenced him to be frozen in carbonite despite his benign intent, Luke would have been kidnapped by the Empire shortly afterwards and tortured by Vader and Palpatine, Yoda would have been there to tell Luke Vader was his father he could defeat the empire now and be redeemed for causing the deaths of so many good people if he'd only help him. Only for it to be revealed Yoda was a Sith Lord all along who died saving luke from Vader, and it was all part of the Emperor's plan to push Luke closer to the Dark Side. The movie would have ended with Han and Chewie dragging a Catatonic Luke to the Falcon back to the Rebel base to await his punishment.

If 3.0 had been like Empire Strikes Back: a smaller Time Skip would have happened but Shinji would have never been trapped in suspended animation in Unit 01. Shinji wouldn't have saved Rei, but it would have been treated as a temporary thing that could be fixed in 4.0. Shinji, Asuka, and Misato would have at least still been on speaking terms even if Shinji had destroyed the Geofront. Gendo would have taken Misato, Asuka ,and the bridge bunnies hostage to use as a bargaining chip. Shinji would have learned about the Angels, Eva, and Gendo's plan and history from Kaworu and had at least something explained to him, instead of being lied to or getting doors slammed in his face. It would have ended with Shinji fighting Gendo in Unit 01 and getting his ass handed to him, only to have his backside saved by Asuka after Gendo reveals Rei is Shinji biological sister.
= =

TLDR?
Ending of Empire: Luke is still on good terms with his adopted family, there is still hope to save Han, the Rebellion continues, and the Empire is back to square one because they didn't turn Luke to the dark side. Still hope for a happy ending.

3.0: if Shinji wasn't on bad terms with his adopted family before he caused another Impact, he sure is now. Asuka tried to kill him for what he did to her. Misato put a bomb around his neck and publicly humiliated him in front of her crew. Kaworu and Rei are dead and more than likely never coming back. Wille lost Unit 02 and Unit 08 because of Shinjis actions. and Gendo has exactly what he needs to end the world, (and Shinji all but gave it to him on a silver platter). So much is stacked against the main character a happy ending for him at this point would surprise me.

EDIT:
That's not to say I think a happy ending is 'IM' Possible for Shinji. I'm just worried 4.0 may come off as unbelievable due to the odds stacked against Shinjiin 3.0 with only one movie left. Personally, I think a bittersweet ending is what were going to get, but at this point I'm ready for anything

@Stillborn
If you are going to be all Doom and Gloom, about it. Can you at least try to have some intelligence mixed in with your doom and gloom. Metaphorically Neutered? Ew. Horrible and inappropriate metaphor dude.

Shinji deserves love, and I choose to hope he can still find some sort of happiness even after all he's guilty of. Buddha found enlightenment from his suffering, Job found peace with God from his, It may come down to the same thing for Shinji.
= = =
Last edited by Ray on Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Stillborn » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:49 pm

^
Just to explain: Everytime Shinji actually shows balls to act for what he believes, Anno rips them off and is like "Nope you're a retard and should not be allowed to make decisions. You're here only to show how stupid you are compared to others."
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Postby A.T. Fish » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:55 pm

I'd just like to remind the hopeless people in this thread that, according to the preview, Shinji is supposed to find hope in Final. I know the previews in Rebuild haven't been very trustworthy but come on, stop acting like a bad ending for Shinji is set in stone.

View Original PostRay wrote:Asuka tried to kill him for what he did to her.


When did that happen?

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Postby Sicarius VI » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:05 pm

@Stillborn
I don't think I can 100% agree with Shinji being a somebody no one wants around. Sure almost all of Wille hated him, but almost isn't all. First off seeing how they treat Shinji actually makes a lot more sense if you consider that Wille is actually scared of what Shinji can do in Eva-01 (i.e laser eyes, very strong A.T Field)and that it is just out of resentment rather than pure hatred. Secondly if nobody wanted Shinji around I will make the argument that Wille would've just killed him at first which they don't. Also if this would still be the case why didn't Misato use the DSS Choker when he escaped, and this isn't even adding in the argument about what Yui/Eva-01 would do to Wille if they did kill Shinji. Also Mari, Sakura, Asuka, and Misato at the very least are sympathetic to Shinji in their own SPECIAL way (even if Shinji doesn't see it). Lastly Gendo and Kaworu surely wanted Shinji around even if it was for their own plans(Gendo).

EDIT- @Stillborn this is too your first comment.
Last edited by Sicarius VI on Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ray » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:06 pm

@AT Fish

I too think Shinji will find hope. If its a hope I can personally find believable is another matter entirely.

Well first and foremost, if the glass hadn't been there Shinji would have a hole where his face used to be. Then there was the whole Clusterf*ck in Liliths Chamber where she charged him with a polearm the size of a skyscraper instead of taking two minutes to EXPLAIN! Did she? No! She called him a brat and tried to kill him!

@Sicarus
Also Mari, Sakura, Asuka, and Misato at the very least are sympathetic to Shinji in their own SPECIAL way (even if Shinji doesn't see it).

I'm sorry. . .but what they did to him was far from sympathetic.
Last edited by Ray on Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Sicarius VI » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:12 pm

@Ray
Completely agree, but I don't think she actually wanted for him to say die but it was more in a fit of rage. If she truly wanted Shinji to die she would've killed him when she found him in the entry plug.
This however doesn't mean I understand why she expected Shinji to help her, or why Mari told him too.

Also if the glass wasn't there I don't think she would've punched Shinji because that would've surely killed him and then you see Asuka getting killed by Eva-01 Kaworu style(becuase of Yui).

As for "I'm sorry. . .but what they did to him was far from sympathetic." I wasn't referring to the choker I mean the fact that they simply allowed him to live, Misato and Asuka that is. Mari and Sakura on the other hand actually are nice to him. I will say "Sympathetic" isn't the best word, maybe you could give me a better one.
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Postby A.T. Fish » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:49 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:Well first and foremost, if the glass hadn't been there Shinji would have a hole where his face used to be. Then there was the whole Clusterf*ck in Liliths Chamber where she charged him with a polearm the size of a skyscraper instead of taking two minutes to EXPLAIN! Did she? No! She called him a brat and tried to kill him!


The incident in Terminal Dogma was about her trying to stop him from starting another impact, I'm sure she would have killed him if needed but otherwise she would probably just do enough to bring him to a halt. And If she had punched him directly do you really think she would have done so with murderous intent? If Asuka really wanted to kill Shinji she could have done so in the end, but she didn't.

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Postby Ray » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:05 pm

Oh good god, I've done it again.

EDIT:

@Sicarus
Cruel Mercy?
Last edited by Ray on Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:12 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:Oh good god, I've done it again.


Yeah. You should stop doing that.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:23 pm

If someone like me can continue on from Q in a manner that leads to hope and possible acceptance for Shinji (OK, I haven't reached that point yet, but it's close), you can be damn sure that an artist like Anno can, and better!
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Postby Sicarius VI » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:47 pm

Or an EOE happens and nobody is ready for 4.0 what so ever, in which case everything/everyone is doomed!
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Re: Shinji Is (not) Doomed? Discuss.

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Postby TheFriskyIan » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:45 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:3.0 basically destroyed all hope for Shinji getting the happy ending he's deserved since the original series. How can you come back after being guilty of a crime of THIS Magnitude? Simply put, you can't. Noone is going to ever trust him again after all he's done. Whether it was of his own intent or being manipulated into it by his father, HE is the one who caused two Impacts, and nearly destroyed the planet, He's the one who pulled the spears. There's nothing anyone can do to atone for the deaths of Billions of innocent people, and on top of that giving the enemy exactly what he needs to finish ending the world? Assuming he even survives the events of the Rebuilds he's likely gonna have to live with that guilt until the day he dies.

Live with the guilt of what exactly? Shinji was not the cause of Third Impact, he caused N-3I but from the clever words of everybody in Q, the actual Third Impact is what killed everyone off and Shinji was long gone by then. The only thing Shinji is responsible for is playing into Gendo's hand TWICE (Gendo, ya know, the real ass hole people should blame for the deaths of billions of people). I see everyone pin the blame on Shinji but as far as giving actual evidence/proof of Shinji being the cause, they always come up short. I want more than Kaworu making claims that Shinji caused all this. We clearly see Near-Third Impact stopped at the end of 2.0 by Kaworu (Another convenient fact Kaworu fails to mention to Shinji). Shinji's role in everything died as soon as the Spear impaled Eva Unit 01.
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Postby Thomas68 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:47 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Do we really need to hear this same tired rant again? Do you think repetition will change peoples' minds or something? At this point we need a copypasta to save ourselves the time and effort of debunking this nonsense.


As far as I know about will of expression, Ray has the right to start a topic about this if he wants to do so. And if this subject was already discussed countless times, some Admin would lock this topic, becuase that's what usually happen with repetitive topics.

Who am I to say this? But, what I know about freedom of speech is: One has the right to speak about whatever he wants and how many times he wants. If you don't like, you don't need to make part of the discussion.

I don't want to be arrogant, but if it bothers you why did you bother repling?
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Postby UrsusArctos » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:38 pm

No backseat moderation, Thomas68. Leave the grand lectures on "freedom of speech" out.

Bagheera - I agree with you, the argument surrounding Shinji has largely been thrown into a loop about whether or not he'll get a happy ending rather than how he's likely to grow and what lessons he's likely to learn along the way.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:50 pm

If you have your health you have everything.

Maybe Shinji won't be GIVEN (nothing should be given) a happy ending at the exact conclusion of 4.0. But if he can stand on his own two feet & continue to live life he may FIND a happy ending later in his life.

Children demand things to be GIVEN to them.
Adults go out & FIND them.

Shinji is a wounded child but he could easily grow into a happy, wonderful adult.

THAT'S how he achieves his happy ending. Not winning the girl - which Anno has always shown is an empty victory - or getting a high five for being "awesome".


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