All Evageeks should watch HBO's True Detective

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:00 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:
SPOILER: Show


The strange part is that Errol demanded Cohle remove his mask, as if Cohle were the Yellow King. In the play, it's the King who wears the pallid mask.

Cohle then goes on to, in fact, remove his mask, dropping the college atheist/nihilist philosophizing he uses as a shield against his grief and the effects of his drug abuse.

Not sure what that means.


Make of this what you will:

SPOILER: Show

Well, a bit of digging links the King heavily to an entity which also goes by the name of Hastur. I couldn't find any mention of him in the Tyson Necronomicon (or maybe I didn't look hard enough, damn thing doesn't have an index) Hastur isn't as prominent in the mythos as big-shots like Cthulhu, Yog-Sothoth and Dagon; he's practically shrouded in esoteric mystery compared to the more famous Cthulhu Mythos entities. He has been everything from a benign god of shepherds to a person to a place. What is notable is that Chambers, the originator the Yellow King story, connects Hastur to stars and black stars, as well as several named stars such as Aldebaran; this takes on more significance when Cohle sees the swirling bright vortex of stars.

This, in turn, could be taken to portray Cohle's lines about the stars and light vs. dark in a different light: what if the light, the stars, actually represent Hastur, the Yellow King, slowly gaining control of the cosmos? Looking back over the series I began to find some rather unsettling associations between Cohle and the Yellow King:

a) Cohle claims during his near-death experience that he felt closer to some kind of afterlife that was 'warm, like a substance' and that he felt that his loved ones were waiting for him there. Which seems odd and vaguely ironic considering that Cohle was in the middle of the Yellow King's temple at the time. What if what Cohle felt wasn't 'Heaven' but 'Carcosa'? Ms. Dolores's constant repetition of 'Rejoice! Death is not the end,' also implies a link between the Yellow King and the afterlife.

b)The visions. Cohle attributes these to his drug usage and it kind of falls into 'maybe magic maybe mundane' but the placement of several of the visions such as the aforementioned star vortex imply that Cohle is directly receiving visions from the Yellow King. One of Cohle's early visions- rapidly moving, oddly-coloured orange-yellow clouds also draws an odd comparison with the 'cloud-waves' Chambers often mentions in associated with Carcosa. This then draws into point c:

c)Cohle is, in some way, 'chosen' by the Yellow King. There is no indication at all of what this means or any explicit mention of it, but Cohle is certainly much more attuned to the King's mythos than anyone except Childress and Ledoux. Childress (or possibly the Yellow King, given the odd way his voice somehow reaches throughout the temple in Episode 8) even refers to him as 'little priest' (or 'little prince'?!) towards the conclusion of the series, and seems to single him out over Hart. The 'take off your mask' line further implies that Childress sees something of the King in Cohle.

I realise that I am on somewhat thin ice here, particularly because Cohle and Hart ultimately destroy part of the Yellow King's cult, but I did begin to wonder how much the cult's actions reflect the Yellow King's will. As Chuckman says, aside from Errol they're not true believers; their rituals are not so much for the King as a form of blackmailing each other and satisfying their own urges. Thus they have no true bond to the King and he seems to be fine with a few of them getting killed. One could argue that the final confrontation of Episode 8 was a conflict between the two closest to the Yellow King, although once again the implications of Cohle's victory are not clear; the new triumphing over the old perhaps, or the destruction of those who still clung to the old ways. With the deaths of Ledoux and Childress the most ancient, radical elements of the cult are dead. It could be a reflection of the spiral sigil and 'time is a flat circle' line from Ledoux, about How Cohle will keep repeating his actions. The cult is weakened but it will revive; perhaps in a different form; eventually someone like Cohle might be 'chosen' to clear away the old and the cycle will repeat over and over ad infinitum while somewhere far, far away the Yellow King is growing stronger.

It is a very Lovecraftian ending under this lens: the protagonists survive their trials, but can never hope to conquer the entity behind it all; possibly they are even pawns of that same entity. The whole point of the Lovecraftian entities is that they are so far removed from the human realm that they cannot be stopped; the most you can hope for is to retain your life and most of your sanity.

So, for you Lovecraft fans who were worried that the ending was too happy: they haven't won. we're still doomed.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

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Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

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Postby StarShaper7 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:48 pm

^
SPOILER: Show
I think what Cohle means is that his near-death experience gave him sort of temporary cosmic awareness, experiencing or interacting with the hyperentity of Life. It could be that his visions are more him being able to visually perceive the Yellow King's presence. The Black Star entity is located where the King is at his most powerful, so it makes sense that he would be see it. He is a priest exactly because he is able to fight against the Yellow King and darkness in an enlightened and aware state that others cannot. The mask is a mask or is not a mask at all, it depends on the decisions he makes with this gift of his. Is he pretending to care about the evil that these fiends inflict upon the sons and daughters of Man or is he sincere in his altruistic actions? The Yellow King is tempting him, trying to convince him that his actions have no meaning and therefore that he is only wearing a mask.

Not so much as doomed as it is saying that the best we can hope for are small victories like this. When Cohle says he thinks that "light's winning" he means that even these small bits of salvation would have been impossible in the past because the domain of darkness was all that was. His words can be interpreted as seeing light, the human spirit or Life, as triumphing over darkness and slowly growing against it. The influence of the Yellow King is weakening, though not by much by the end of the series. This would take much longer, but the series itself can be seen as this eternal struggle represented in microcosm. These victories add up as the darkness is repelled even further by the light. If you go by the "time is a flat circle" thing, you could interpret it as this endless cycle where light and dark are at constant war and the dominant role is always shifting between the two. How we react to this and what meaning we give to the little time we have involved in the struggle (knowingly or not) is up to us. When Errol says that he will gain "ascension" through his work, it may be that he is saying that he will ascend this cycle and achieve something akin to Nirvana.

I'm also holding out that Cohle will make some sort of cameo or something in the second season, as he hits the road for his travels maybe he becomes sort of a wandering warrior-priest? That could set him up for a recurring role in the entire series.

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Postby Joy Evangelion » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:09 am

I watched TD for the first time this past week, and I did get NGE vibes from it, but that just may have been because I read the title of this thread a few months before I watched the series. :tongue:

Seriously though, my personal belief on NGE is that part of what it's all about it is the snatching away of life's golden rings just before one is about to grab it; Shinji on the bus saying yea and brazenly going after Leliel just before his mind starts taking hit after hit/Misato reuniting with Kaji just before his (and her) death/ Asuka never quite reaching her piloting potential/Rei seeing the smiling Gendo before 00 blows up and the transition guides in 26', etc..

In TD we have ep. 5's killing of Reggie Ledoux and the reception Cohle and Marty receive back at the station(good work, Shinji), a shot of Rust with his new girl watching television, and Marty back with his family... And then of course it all starts going downhill with Rust's interrogation of the pharmacy murderer and his words about the Yellow King and Carcosa. Finally Marty says something about how "the good times" are a period that comes and goes, and they don't come back. One moment you think you're a hot shit detective, next thing you know you killed the one guy who may have snitched out a serial murderer, one day you're a hot shot Eva pilot, and the next your best friend gets chosen to pilot the Eva that gets infected by an Angel.

Of course, this is a pretty surface level examination of the series', but it's just something I wanted to throw out there.
I used to work in a factory and I was really happy because I could daydream all day -- I.C.
And thanks to EVA, I've started like myself and that has made me very happy. Mr. Anno, please keep working on EVA a lot more.
and thank you so much for everything!!

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Postby movieartman » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:58 am

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2014/11/24/rachel-mcadams-taylor-kitsch-and-kelly-reilly-confirmed-for-true-detective/

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Postby Blue Monday » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:06 pm

Trailer for S2: https://youtu.be/4OfU7CGY5DQ
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Postby Chuckman » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:21 am

I can't wait to find out what 'the secret occult history of the American transporation system' is. I have some ideas. It makes me wonder if Pizzolato is familiar with From Hell

Also I want that song. The S1 opening credits score is The Handsome Family's 'Far from Any Road' and it's a damn good song from a pretty nifty album.

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Postby Blue Monday » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:41 am

From Hell is what I was thinking of too, what with also the shots of the highway interchange, town plan maps; all that ritualistic/symbolic psychogeographical juju.

Also, Colin Farrell wearing a bolo tie.

-o-;
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Postby Falcon_of_the_Sun » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:23 am

View Original PostSorrow wrote:Episodes 1 - 5: 9/10
Episodes 6 - 8: 4/10

Everybody's clever nowadays.


I watched the whole thing over a week recently. I loved the setting and the vibe. Sort of Twin Peaks' whimsy meets The Wire's realism in an interesting southern frame. Superbly scripted characters.

Despite the nice literary touches (and thanks for the interesting analyses, good to see that people on EGF always mean business), I'd have to go with the Sorrow review. Maybe up to episode 6 was really good for me, but the ending was rushed and cliche. Cynical guys turn good, divorcees kind of make up, the really bad guy is your stock, unlikeable, unexcusable white trash paedo.

This said, I still thought it was so much better than anything else I have seen recently. Calling it "just less stupid than most tv" rather than "more intelligent than most tv" is just semantics.
But I reckon everything might look "stupid" to Sorrow if, as I would expect from somebody living in the UK, he spent time on Black Mirror (and there goes a new topic)...

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Postby Joy Evangelion » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:50 pm

View Original PostFalcon_of_the_Sun wrote:Despite the nice literary touches (and thanks for the interesting analyses, good to see that people on EGF always mean business), I'd have to go with the Sorrow review. Maybe up to episode 6 was really good for me, but the ending was rushed and cliche. Cynical guys turn good, divorcees kind of make up, the really bad guy is your stock, unlikeable, unexcusable white trash paedo.

This said, I still thought it was so much better than anything else I have seen recently. Calling it "just less stupid than most tv" rather than "more intelligent than most tv" is just semantics.
But I reckon everything might look "stupid" to Sorrow if, as I would expect from somebody living in the UK, he spent time on Black Mirror (and there goes a new topic)...


In regards to the whole "True Detective is too HYPE thing"(though I know the hype has died down recently as the show is a year old), when viewing a television show, or reading a book, or listening to an album what's important is whether or not one, as a unique human being, gets enjoyment out of said artistic work, whether or not the rest of the world thinks it's beautiful or total garbage. I mean, if I stayed away from things that were too hyped, I wouldn't be on this forum, or read some of my favorite books, or listen to most of my favorite albums.

Anyways, on my first viewing of TD I wasn't too fond of the last three episodes either, mostly because I just got so much enjoyment out of the scenes in 1995, and Rust's speeches with the two detectives. However, on my second and third viewing I didn't let the fact that the series didn't go where "I wanted it to go" get to me, and so I was actually able to appreciate the themes present in the last three episodes, which,(to me) are the importance of friendship(so corny of me to say, but whatever), hope, and fulfilling one's duty, whether you want to or not. I mean, after all of the crap the characters go through they sort of deserve to be able to appreciate life, and sometimes in reality things work out in the end. But still, we get the reminder towards the end that nothing ever really ends either. With that being said though, I still do pretty much dislike the final scenes at the hospital and I think I always will.
I used to work in a factory and I was really happy because I could daydream all day -- I.C.
And thanks to EVA, I've started like myself and that has made me very happy. Mr. Anno, please keep working on EVA a lot more.
and thank you so much for everything!!

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Postby Blue Monday » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:58 pm

    Rust Cohle: We didn't get 'em all.
    Marty Hart: Yeah, and we ain't gonna get 'em all. That ain't what kind of world it is, but we got ours.
That to me is the true nature of the ending of S1 in a nutshell. Sure, Childress might've been a let down for some - cliché, obvious or stereotypical - but he was only a demented, dislodged pawn of the cult of the Yellow King. The evil is still out there and always will be.
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Postby Falcon_of_the_Sun » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:58 am

View Original PostBlue Monday wrote:
    Rust Cohle: We didn't get 'em all.
    Marty Hart: Yeah, and we ain't gonna get 'em all. That ain't what kind of world it is, but we got ours.
That to me is the true nature of the ending of S1 in a nutshell. Sure, Childress might've been a let down for some - cliché, obvious or stereotypical - but he was only a demented, dislodged pawn of the cult of the Yellow King. The evil is still out there and always will be.


I guess it doesn't matter because judging from your signature, Eva Geeks is a flat circle anyway

:D

I do feel like I wanna rewatch it now, though...

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Postby NemZ » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:40 pm

So, season 2...

Gotta say it has not hooked me yet. No real chemistry, nothing particularly quotable... though I do want to know what the deal with that skeleton in veils was.
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"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
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Postby A.T. Fish » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:50 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:though I do want to know what the deal with that skeleton in veils was.


Apparently they are trying to keep the ritualistic murder angle.

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Postby Blue Monday » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:35 pm

I liked the first ep even though there were a few scenes that felt superfluous (the bust at the "webcam brothel" for instance). More stunning visually than the first season and I actually really like Colin Farrell's character. Also, the story already seems much more layered and interconnected, so I'm looking forward to the rest of this one.
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Postby Dima » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:02 am

It was obvious that the second season couldn't live up to the hype of the first but this doesn't mean it will turn into a bad show. Episode 1 was a little confusing and strange for but let's give it some time and low the expectations.
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Postby Blue Monday » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:38 am

S2E2 'Night Finds You'  SPOILER: Show
So, Velcoro's dead? Has to be, right? Shotgun blast like that point-blank range in the torso. That was shocking, even with the (now obvious in hindsight) build-up...
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Postby StarShaper7 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:57 am

SPOILER: Show
Nah, his story arc is just beginning. Too many loose strings.

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Postby Blue Monday » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:16 am

Courtesy of Reddit; the painting in the therapist's office: http://i.imgur.com/inuzIKs.png

Also, how the quartz opening is a visual cue to Caspere's castration wound, which Bezzerides seems to take notice of as well.


@SS7: It really feels like it could go either way, but a bulletproof vest or rubber bullets would seem like kind of a cop out for True Detective. Regardless, show now has me properly hooked.
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Postby NemZ » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:06 pm

Eh... not sure yet. Killing him now would short-circuit the tension they established by having all these various forces pulling in different directions, almost none of which apply to the other two on the case. I suspect he'll pull through because otherwise a lot of drama just stopped and that would mean the last two episodes were almost entirely pointless.
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"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
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Postby Blue Monday » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:08 pm

SPOILER: Show
The more I think on it the more I reckon he's gone. I mean, it was basically an entire character arc compressed into that one episode: Hits rock bottom, loses custody of his kid (it's practically assured he won't be seeing him for a long time given how bad a person he is), gives up, tells Semyon he lost his reason to work for him, rejects Semyon's money reclaiming a small part of his dignity, and that the only way he'll take a vacation is if he "croaks". Taking all that into account, and also with how the whole last scene is framed (the final few moments as the camera pans out on the door sticks with me especially); yeah, I think Ray's gone. That second shot is almost to squash any hope completely.
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