All Evageeks should watch HBO's True Detective

A subforum for discussions about Film, TV, and Videos.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

Trajan
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 2838
Joined: Dec 19, 2010
Location: Tamriel
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Trajan » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:11 pm

SPOILER: Show

If you pay close attention to the show, Rust really isn't a nihilist; it's just a psychological defense mechanism he develops to cope with losing his daughter and all the messed up things he's seen while working Vice and Homicide. He believes everything is meaningless because he's never really made a difference in anything; he just sort of stumbles through life. To paraphrase Marty, "for someone who talks about how existence is pointless, you do seem to worry about it a whole lot." And having some comfort in a near-death experience is not the same as finding religion. Rust isn't supposed to be this idealized nihilist, he's supposed to show how psychologically fucked up a nihilist (or rather someone trying to convince themselves that they're a nihilist) is.

As for Errol Childress not living up to your expectations, RL serial killers are not Hannibal Lector. They have serious fucking psychological issues, that's why they're serial killers and also the reason why most of them can't get a prestigious job. And the symbols he used weren't meaningless, they were used in the cult that abused him so he co-opted them for his own use as he was trying to recreate the cult or call attention to it depending on your theory.


Regardless of the strength of your criticisms, the show is already starting to suffer from the Seinfeld Effect given how much people have praised it and hyped it up over the past year. But it is still far more intelligent than 99% of television today. If you don't believe me, just watch some network TV.
Movin' Right Along
"Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it." - Confucius
"All styles are good except the tiresome kind." - Voltaire

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 71
Posts: 9403
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:09 am

Remember that Sorrow is in the UK, and so has a different choice of show available than those in the US.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Sad, sad Shinji... (details); Past avatars.
Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Sorrow
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Posts: 1069
Joined: Jul 06, 2014

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sorrow » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:13 am

SPOILER: Show
View Original PostTrajan wrote:If you pay close attention to the show, Rust really isn't a nihilist; it's just a psychological defense mechanism he develops to cope with losing his daughter and all the messed up things he's seen while working Vice and Homicide. He believes everything is meaningless because he's never really made a difference in anything; he just sort of stumbles through life. To paraphrase Marty, "for someone who talks about how existence is pointless, you do seem to worry about it a whole lot." And having some comfort in a near-death experience is not the same as finding religion. Rust isn't supposed to be this idealized nihilist, he's supposed to show how psychologically fucked up a nihilist (or rather someone trying to convince themselves that they're a nihilist) is.
The interest in Rust came from his honest view on life; whether that view had been a defence mechanism or a result of life grounding him down need not matter - the interesting thing—as in the only interesting thing—was that he had this uncensored, realist view on it all. The fact that he dwelled on life, despite convincingly being sick of everything, only gave credence to this position. Comfort in death would have been acceptable of his character - feeling as though all his loved ones are there waiting for him, with stronger love than before, slips into a feeling of "afterlife" and how it will be alright when all is over; for a better world awaits. That's not the same as embracing death as death is. That's not being happy to leave "this disgusting place" behind; that's finding spirituality and believing in something otherworldly awaits him as a prize for all his suffering. In the end, he turned out to be another typical American hero.

A nihilist wouldn't be "psychologically fucked up". They needn't experience the loss of a daughter, or something equally tragic, to become that way. Such thoughts can creep into people's mind just from dwelling on it all. Some would say it is a result of being more intelligent than the herd and capable of independent thought. Perhaps a little too much time alone - but that's hardly an issue. We're all too eager to put anything down to "irregular wiring in the brain" or some other bollocks. Quick, get the meds. He seemed to accept his daughter's death, find comfort in what she was spared. He appeared to be a thoughtful, deeply contemplating character with a grim, realistic conclusion on life. What he ended up was another run of the mill tragic-hero-who-cannot-be-blamed-for-the-shadow-that-follows-him-but-sees-the-light-at-the-end-and-isn't-such-a-bad-guy-after-all. Blegh.

View Original PostTrajan wrote:As for Errol Childress not living up to your expectations, RL serial killers are not Hannibal Lector. They have serious fucking psychological issues, that's why they're serial killers and also the reason why most of them can't get a prestigious job. And the symbols he used weren't meaningless, they were used in the cult that abused him so he co-opted them for his own use as he was trying to recreate the cult or call attention to it depending on your theory.
It doesn't matter why he used them though; they don't open the doorway into the working's of Errol's mind, other than that he affiliates with these symbols and adopts them as his own because he was abused by those who did the same. Wonderful. They're completely unimportant - there was never an attempt at showing what the symbols symbolised exactly, and the detectives could have come to the same conclusion without all the symbology. Especially considering that the "eureka moment" was Marty noticing some green wood and recalls description of green ears, in some Sherlockian fashion it just came to him; because it had to be concluded somehow.

Errol didn't have to be a genius for me to appreciate the bad guy; I said "at the very least"; as in, anything would have been more interesting than more white trash. If this was just more television and it remained out of my sphere, then fine - but for something heralded as so fine and so intelligent, it really doesn't deserve the praise it gets. The last few episodes alone should have dropped all reviews - quite drastically.


View Original PostTrajan wrote:the show is already starting to suffer from the Seinfeld Effect given how much people have praised it and hyped it up over the past year.
That is in no way a good thing.

View Original PostTrajan wrote:If you don't believe me, just watch some network TV.
I'm afraid I wouldn't know what to look for. As Mr. Hodges pointed out, we get quite different shows and so I would need to seek them out individually.

If this is "still far more intelligent than 99% of television today", then why do people bother to turn it on?
The fate of man…the hope of man is written in sorrow.

Mr. Tines
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 60
Posts: 19816
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
Location: This sceptered isle.
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:03 am

View Original PostSorrow wrote:then why do people bother to turn it on?
It's become the opiate of the masses and a replacement for community -- you sit there, brain in neutral, and get to have something in common to talk to your social group about the next day.

View Original PostTrajan wrote:the show is already starting to suffer from the Seinfeld Effect

The sum total I've heard about this series has been from this thread, so I'd say probably not this side of the Pond -- however, just reading the start of Sorrow's synopsis, my reaction was "and the villain of the piece turns out to be a witch, no a Catholic, I mean a comsymp, no... That's so a surprise!" That's the sort of lazy dressed up as edgy that would have me throwing a book across the room.
Reminder: Play nicely <<>> My vanity publishing:- NGE|blog|Photos|retro-blog|Fanfics|G+|MAL
Avatar: Ritsu-chan

Trajan
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 2838
Joined: Dec 19, 2010
Location: Tamriel
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Trajan » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:44 am

Just so everyone's clean on what I mean by the Seinfeld Effect. And you Brits certainly have better network TV than us Americans, although I'd still venture to say True Detective is still more intelligent than the majority of your own programming.

Anyways, I'm not really here to try and convert anyone to the True Detective camp, just offering some perspective on things.
Movin' Right Along
"Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it." - Confucius
"All styles are good except the tiresome kind." - Voltaire

Sorrow
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Posts: 1069
Joined: Jul 06, 2014

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sorrow » Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:41 pm

By Seinfeld effect I had thought you meant "everyone is making out it's much better than it is due to some sort of 'hype' and excitement," but it seems you actually meant "everyone is making out it's not as good/original/unique because everything is following suit"? I really don't think that's the case at all... Clearly most everyone who has seen it is giving it far too much credit. Any hype back lash—that I see no sign of, though it would fully deserve—would be from it not being as good as everyone has made it out to be; not because works that follow it force it to become irrelevant or the status quo. It wasn't very unique to begin with and it's certainly not old enough to have been replaced by anything it may have influenced. It had potential, I fully admit, but died at the midway point.

View Original PostTrajan wrote:And you Brits certainly have better network TV than us Americans, although I'd still venture to say True Detective is still more intelligent than the majority of your own programming.
It's not good enough to praise something for being more intelligent than utter stupidity. That doesn't make it intelligent - it just makes it less stupid.

Could you please explain why it's such an intelligent show? Not how it's more so than most, but why it's intelligent full stop. It hardly goes against the grain.
SPOILER: Show
All the symbols were rendered irrelevant when they ultimately had no relation to how Errol was caught and only serve to say "these messed up hillbillies believe in some whacko mumbo jumbo man". Nothing more than murder motivations. Yes, I'm aware that Rust's last hallucination was a blue vortex, in the presence of the yellow king...



Post script: if you call us "Brits" again, I'll have no choice but to send some incredibly kinky people looking for you.[/spoiler]
The fate of man…the hope of man is written in sorrow.

Trajan
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 2838
Joined: Dec 19, 2010
Location: Tamriel
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Trajan » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:27 pm

You know, I get the feeling this isn't going to lead to anything productive, so I'm just going to say I think its a great show and that it's fine if you don't like it, and call it a day.
Movin' Right Along
"Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it." - Confucius
"All styles are good except the tiresome kind." - Voltaire

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 8260
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:21 pm

Sorrow:

SPOILER: Show
1. Your review never mentions all the awesome nudity in the show. This is why you will never attain heaven by violence

2. Rewatch the series from the perspective that the Yellow King is real and the series takes place in a universe where the play in R. W. Chambers' books actually exists

3. Errol is not the culprit, he is only the man who killed Dora Lange

4. Errol's relationship to the Tuttle can illuminates his practice of the Yellow King cult as it relates to the actual cult

5. Rust is not an authentic nihilist at any point in his character arc

6. The corruption of Marty's daughter is part of the 'psychosphere' Rust mentions; she was not 'enjoying sex', she is an underaged girl coerced into a gangbang by older boys in a psychic echo of the ritual on Rust's videotape, which is purposely left to our imagination.

The cult is centered around the ritualistic despoiling and destruction of the female principle. Many many events in the series "echo" this, suggesting it's working. Or maybe the cult simply reflects the world as a whole and the ways of powerful men.

Blue Monday
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 3309
Joined: Jun 17, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Blue Monday » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:07 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:This is why you will never attain heaven by violence.

I see you.

;)
"Eva(Geeks) is a story that repeats."
Warren Peace, #643919

StarShaper7
Arael
Arael
User avatar
Posts: 859
Joined: Mar 28, 2014

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby StarShaper7 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:16 pm

I'm interested in watching True Detective, so I downloaded The King in Yellow. It's probably not a requirement to "get" the show, but I was thinking it would somehow enhance the experience and give a hint of what I'd be in for. Or have I done this for nothing?

Blue Monday
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 3309
Joined: Jun 17, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Blue Monday » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:36 pm

It'd probably be a wasted effort, SS. Whilst the show does reference certain elements of the book heavily (Carcosa, The King in Yellow), you'd only have to be aware of said elements to understand the execution - meaning you could just wiki the book/plot points and "get" the concept as it is presented in-show. I'm sure reading the whole book itself will add something though if you're super eager. Probably even inform on some of the more ambiguous, untouched cult themes, so on, so forth.

I grabbed this on Blu-ray the other week too. Wanting to get around to a rewatch sooner rather than later.
"Eva(Geeks) is a story that repeats."
Warren Peace, #643919

StarShaper7
Arael
Arael
User avatar
Posts: 859
Joined: Mar 28, 2014

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby StarShaper7 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:06 pm

Thought I'd just watch the first episode before going to sleep. Ended up finishing the entire series in two days. Yeah, it's a great show. It's been years since I got into a live action TV show that wasn't a comedy.
SPOILER: Show
I wasn't ever really too interested in who the actual culprit was. Yeah, it kept me guessing and excited, but what caught my attention the most was the Yellow King's recurring presence within the show. Without this element of the occult and Lovecraftian horror, I don't think I'd like this as much.

This is just how I understand it, but certain yellow objects are kind of representative of the King's influence. I'm aware that I might just be reading too much into this but here are some stray thoughts.

I think there was an owl perched up top on a beam where the church ceiling had broken apart. It's like a spy observing Cohle and Hart. It wasn't such an intense yellow that you could immediately discern it, but it seemed like it was something that merited analysis.

This one's also a stretch, but the All-Around Cowboy 1982 belt buckle that belonged to Hart seemed to symbolize the Yellow King's influence over Hart in the form of Cowboy discourse. It's reinforcing this traditionally hegemonic American masculinity that Hart embodies pretty well. The Yellow King cult's symbolic sacrificing of women and children is one that's based around degradation. The victims are blindfolded, drugged, dehumanized and destroyed by a group of men.

I agree with Chuckman on Hart's daughter's corruption being an "echo" of the videotape on the psychosphere. I'm leaning more towards the interpretation that the cult's actions are affecting the world, empowering the Yellow King and increasing his influence on our world. That's just coz I prefer to go down the spookier path, which is more interesting to me.

Beyond the symbols acting as clues that lead them to Errol, they also reveal, or at least hint at, a bigger thing going on.

Looking at the Yellow King as a real entity, you could say that his power is the manipulation over men through ideas conveyed through symbols.

Looking forward to season 2! The casting of Rachel McAdams and Vince Vaughn have me kind of worried that it won't be as good as this first season, since I've only seen those two in crappy romantic comedies or boring romance movies. At least, they don't seem like they would be able to hold a candle to the performances of McConaughey and Harrelson.

movieartman
Lilin
Lilin
Age: 26
Posts: 1903
Joined: Feb 24, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby movieartman » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:16 pm

View Original PostStarShaper7 wrote:The casting of Rachel McAdams and Vince Vaughn have me kind of worried that it won't be as good as this first season, since I've only seen those two in crappy romantic comedies or boring romance movies. At least, they don't seem like they would be able to hold a candle to the performances of McConaughey and Harrelson.

while i agree on the last bit i do suggest watching mcadams in state of play (2009)

Compiling_Autumn
Ramiel
Ramiel
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 333
Joined: Jun 15, 2014
Location: Virginia
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Compiling_Autumn » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:36 pm

View Original PostStarShaper7 wrote:Looking forward to season 2! The casting of Rachel McAdams and Vince Vaughn have me kind of worried that it won't be as good as this first season, since I've only seen those two in crappy romantic comedies or boring romance movies. At least, they don't seem like they would be able to hold a candle to the performances of McConaughey and Harrelson.


To be fair, it wasn't that long ago when having McConaughey on a project would throw up red flags
"The will to lose one's will?"
"Absolutely. The will to make oneself completely free. Will is the wrong word, because in the end you could call it despair. Because it really comes out of an absolute feeling of it's impossible to do these things, so I might as well just do anything. And out of this anything, one sees what happens."--Francis Bacon

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 8260
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:28 pm

McConaughey proved his chops, if he was a little hammy, earlier in his career. The real breakout here for me is Woody Harrelson. There's a lot of nuance in his performance.

Re: Above

TD's first season captures a style of fiction that somewhat died after fantasy/sci-fi/horror fiction. Weird fiction is all about atmosphere and a looming sense of dread and reconciling the early 20th century scientific advances that revealed the universe is pointless and hostile with the human experience.

The show is more Lovecraft than Chambers, despite all the King in Yellow references. You can tell Pizzolato knows the mythos because the H-word is never mentioned anywhere in the series.

It really does fit the pattern of a Lovecraft story, albeit with a more upbeat ending. H.P. has a reputation as the "tentacles" guy but many of his stories end with a monster that's more like the amorphous black star entity in Rusts's vision than a 'monster'.

The setting of the show and the voudon stuff is an homage to The Call of Cthulhu, and Lovecraft had a fixation on degeneracy and incest and the like, and a fascination with the Uncanny. ("This is like someone's memory of a town.")

If Ol' HP had some familiarity with psychedelics he might have written a character a lot like Cohle, glimpsing beyond the veil and all.

Shinoyami65
Seed
Seed
User avatar
Age: 20
Posts: 3926
Joined: Jul 26, 2012
Location: Vinculum Gate
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shinoyami65 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:09 pm

Decided to start watching the show and finally made it to the finale. It's like the awesome starspawn of Eva, The X-Files, Twin Peaks, and The Call of Cthulhu. When I've recovered sufficiently I might start elaborating in greater detail on my interpretation of the show.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

movieartman
Lilin
Lilin
Age: 26
Posts: 1903
Joined: Feb 24, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby movieartman » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:47 pm

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:Decided to start watching the show and finally made it to the finale. It's like the awesome starspawn of Eva, The X-Files, Twin Peaks, and The Call of Cthulhu. When I've recovered sufficiently I might start elaborating in greater detail on my interpretation of the show.

:lol:
awesome, glad you appear to have liked it

Shinoyami65
Seed
Seed
User avatar
Age: 20
Posts: 3926
Joined: Jul 26, 2012
Location: Vinculum Gate
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shinoyami65 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:41 am

View Original PostStarShaper7 wrote:Thought I'd just watch the first episode before going to sleep. Ended up finishing the entire series in two days. Yeah, it's a great show. It's been years since I got into a live action TV show that wasn't a comedy.
SPOILER: Show
I wasn't ever really too interested in who the actual culprit was. Yeah, it kept me guessing and excited, but what caught my attention the most was the Yellow King's recurring presence within the show. Without this element of the occult and Lovecraftian horror, I don't think I'd like this as much.

This is just how I understand it, but certain yellow objects are kind of representative of the King's influence. I'm aware that I might just be reading too much into this but here are some stray thoughts.

I think there was an owl perched up top on a beam where the church ceiling had broken apart. It's like a spy observing Cohle and Hart. It wasn't such an intense yellow that you could immediately discern it, but it seemed like it was something that merited analysis.

This one's also a stretch, but the All-Around Cowboy 1982 belt buckle that belonged to Hart seemed to symbolize the Yellow King's influence over Hart in the form of Cowboy discourse. It's reinforcing this traditionally hegemonic American masculinity that Hart embodies pretty well. The Yellow King cult's symbolic sacrificing of women and children is one that's based around degradation. The victims are blindfolded, drugged, dehumanized and destroyed by a group of men.

I agree with Chuckman on Hart's daughter's corruption being an "echo" of the videotape on the psychosphere. I'm leaning more towards the interpretation that the cult's actions are affecting the world, empowering the Yellow King and increasing his influence on our world. That's just coz I prefer to go down the spookier path, which is more interesting to me.

Beyond the symbols acting as clues that lead them to Errol, they also reveal, or at least hint at, a bigger thing going on.

Looking at the Yellow King as a real entity, you could say that his power is the manipulation over men through ideas conveyed through symbols.



SPOILER: Show

I, oddly, enough, didn't see too many yellow objects throughout the series until the final confrontation when we're presented with the odd idol draped in yellow robes. The King in Yellow is what I'd consider a well-written Lovecraftian entity in that it's immense, too immense to be portrayed in its entirety, yet the fragments we glimpse are terrifying. I especially like the fact that they didn't decide to stick with just ol'Cthulhu by shoving a load of tentacles in there like many films these days are wont to do (in fact, there's nary a tentacle to be seen). The idea of 'him who eats time in robes' is suggestive of the serpent-like Yig, who has some dominion over time, although the deer-horned women and sexual rituals are also suggestive of Shub-Niggurath, the goat of a thousand young. The theme of darkness could also be associated with the shadowy Nylarhotep. The Yellow King has also been linked to Hastur, whose status is uncertain but who is linked to stars, which could put the idea of light winning in a very different perspective. Ultimately, it is perhaps fortunate that the developers chose to create a horrifying being which is an amalgamation of these attributes rather than sticking with one clear entity. It creates a new depth of uncertainty, uncanniness and terror that can even strike hardened Lovecraft fanatics, by making sure we don't know entirely what we're dealing with. It could also be argued that the reason the King embodies so many attributes to because of how much the cult has added to his mythos prior to the series, incorporating elements from Southern folklore such as the devil traps and courir di mardi gras in addition to the established Lovecraft mythos.

Masks are an important recurring symbol taken from the King in Yellow. The show often seems to revolve around duality between the different 'masks' that people wear. Hart tries to wear the 'mask' of a family man even in 2012, but in private abandons himself to his primal urges without acknowledging his own hypocrisy. This is an odd parallel to the cultists, who lead ordinary lives by day but don animal masks in private as they become beastlike in their rituals and follow their primal urges (which are also made evident in the recurring deer-men and women. That the cult members also operate under the pretense of the Christian Church could also be considered a stab at the primal, pagan rituals underlying much of organised religion to this day (the true face under the mask), or possibly the hypocrisy of the devoutly religious.

'Carcosa' is certainly an interesting concept, because once again we're not entirely sure what it is. The Carcosa presented by Chambers is the kingdom of the Yellow King,; in the show it seems to be the strange temple where the final confrontation takes place, but it could be interpreted as being something almost beyond that, practically a state of mind. When asked what Carcosa is Ms. Dolores describes it as 'him who eats time, in robes; it's the wind of invisible voices' which could imply it is part of the Yellow King himself, or refers to whatever dwelling he happens to inhabit at the time. I found it interesting how Cohle's lines in the first episode about 'the shadow of a town' and the jungle reclaiming the land are reflected throughout the show in cult-related locations such as the ruined church, the ruined school, and the fort at the end of the show; this could once again represent the ancient and primal tearing at the 'mask' of cleanliness and society which we have forced upon it. Carcosa could refer to this sort of overgrown, prehistoric untainted realm where primal urges are allowed to run rampant without being subsumed into society, outside of the passing of time.

As for the manipulation of ideas and the corruption of Audrey it certainly does seem like the King in Yellow's influence is spreading throughout the world regardless of Hart and Cohle's actions. From the start Audrey seems to be attracted to sex and the taboo, and begins to unconsciously mirror some of the cult's actions without being aware of their existence; luckily she's eventually subsumed back into society, but it does indicate that the King's influence is something that permeates everything, even those that haven't had direct contact with him. There's also an interesting underlying feminist subtext; an example is circumstances regarding Beth, the girl who Hart tries to get out of prostitution who he eventually ends up sleeping with. Beth's brothel owner claims that the reason men are so angry about female prostitution is because it's about women making choices regarding their bodies that men can't control; this can lead to the realisation that Hart, the 'family man' is very controlling; when his mistress goes against his wishes he repeatedly threatens her and tries to control her; he tries to exercise control over his wife to prevent her from leaving, and he tries to control Audrey's behaviour or try to rationalise it. Even more ironically, Beth chooses to continue as a prostitute and Hart ends up sleeping with her. This could be considered to be an attack on patriarchal values, which are in themselves based on primal, prehistoric instincts which is yet another 'mask' metaphor for the primal urges which continue to influence our society from the shadows to this day. Perhaps the King in Yellow is an embodiment of these instincts, the true face behind mankind's mask.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

StarShaper7
Arael
Arael
User avatar
Posts: 859
Joined: Mar 28, 2014

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby StarShaper7 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:56 pm

^
SPOILER: Show
I did think that masks played an important role in the story. I haven't read the actual book, but I read this quote from the play-within-the-book from wikipedia:

The King in Yellow Act I, Scene 2d

Camilla: You, sir, should unmask.
Stranger: Indeed?
Cassilda: Indeed it's time. We have all laid aside disguise but you.
Stranger: I wear no mask.
Camilla: (Terrified, aside to Cassilda.) No mask? No mask!


I actually went into the show knowing that there would be Yellow signs everywhere, because the internet. Some Lovecraftian horrors, this is just IMO, seem to be entities that exist on a higher (and lower?) dimensional plane from our own but are able to manifest in our reality as both physical and non-physical things. They can work as these abstract entities or simply as metaphors for aspects of human nature. They can be both at the same time, because these beings operate on several levels of existence that we cannot physically perceive due to our limited nature as humans.

The Black Star that Cohle envisions and the bones dressed in yellow rags in the finale seem to be the closest as we'll get to a physical representation of The King in Yellow. At once this being is represented as physical objects that can be 'touched' and also manifests in ideology, at once mundane and transmundane, because everything is real. The vision Cohle has is real. It's a drug-enduced vision and at the same time it's a image that represents something unimaginable, a human's attempt to grasp what they are incapable of comprehending. You can see the King in Yellow as something that is not real (on our level of reality) and just something the Cult has made up, at the same time it can be the King who is controlling the Cult and spreading his influence across our plane of reality. Reality and Fiction just don't have the meanings that they normally do when you talk about these kinds of ideas. They intersect at points where the real and non-real worlds meet, or are they directly within one another and we can only get rare glimpses at the true objective world that only a greater consciousness could comprehend fully?

I do think that Carcosa is a term for the domain of the Yellow King. The "Carcosa" we see in the finale appears to be representative of the idea of Carcosa, a place where the human spirit is crushed in worship of the King. Errol was subject to the Cult's ways, which is how the King spreads his influence and gains more humans who have lost their humanity to become his ideologues that act on his behalf. In this way, Carcosa can be seen as what the King is slowly trying to mold the world into by projecting himself through the psychosphere and corrupting the collective hyperentity of humanity, with the repercussions manifesting in the physical world of our sensory perception. I also believe that when one acts on behalf of the King, this is also the King himself as well. Is it Errol who speaks to Cohle in the finale, as he makes his way through "Carcosa," or is it the King who speaks through him?

His influence is most apparent in the hegemonic masculinity displayed by Hart. In this way, the dominant ideology of the Cowboy as the "mask" of America can be seen as the King's doing. These old patriarchal ideals is how the King intends to extinguish the light and defeat the human spirit in order for darkness to reign once more. The corruption of Audrey is the result of Hart's actions, which echoes the actions of the Cult. Not only is Audrey influenced by the King, but so too is Marty, perhaps the King has even a stronger presence within him than he does with Audrey.

I'm basing most of this off of my experiences with, interpretations of and readings on the works of Grant Morrison. I'm not entirely confident in my thoughts since I haven't delved too much into this line of thought, though I suspect Chuckman would be able to put what I'm trying to say in words better and, if need be, correct any misunderstandings I may have. Though, from what I've read, he seems to be really damn busy as of late.

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 8260
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:32 pm

Excellent analysis.

SPOILER: Show
The King isn't real in one sense but is real in another. His acolytes make him real my making a Yellow King shaped space in the world. The Tuttles still keep the cult but they're in it for power. They use the vile ritual on the unseen tape to cement their bond to each other via collective blackmail but they are not true believers. Errol is the real deal, a practitioner of the old time religion.

This is kind of parallel between the Tuttles and the tent revivalists on the other side. To the Tuttles and most Christians, the faith is part of the social fabric. It's a thing you do, a form of organization for the community. People with a more worldly connection to religion tend to be a little weirded out by fire and brimstone, revivalist types.

The weird bit where Errol imitates the accent from the movie he's watching is a hint to what's going on here. The pain of having his face burnt by his father opened his mind and some of the Yellow King slipped in through the cracks.

The strange part is that Errol demanded Cohle remove his mask, as if Cohle were the Yellow King. In the play, it's the King who wears the pallid mask.

Cohle then goes on to, in fact, remove his mask, dropping the college atheist/nihilist philosophizing he uses as a shield against his grief and the effects of his drug abuse.

Not sure what that means.


Return to “Film and Video”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests