Superhero Films & TV

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Ray
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Ray » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:09 pm

Hugh Jackman will be aiding Fox in finding the Wolverine to succeed him.

http://www.cbr.com/logan-hugh-jackman-n ... &view=list

On one hand, I'm glad the character is going to show up again in the future. On the other hand? I was thinking maybe this time we could get a Logan closer to who the character is in the comics. A Short, hairy, snarky little troll. The only thing Fox-universe Wolvie and Comic book wolvie have in common is the claws and being vicious. But Wolverine in the movies has become less like the comic book, and more like Hugh Jackman.

If Jackman is involved, they're probably going to get a version of the character closer to his take than the comic book accurate take. Which I think would be a terrible missed opportunity.
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:16 am

Would be nice to let the character rest for a few years so there can be an actual demand to see a new Wolverine. But, considering Warner Brothers only waited a year after The Dark Knight Rises was released to cast a new Batman I guess we should know who Fox will have playing the next Wolverine before the end of the year.

And when Marvel does their own version of Logan with Iron Man so they can move past paying Robert Downey Jr hundreds of millions for each contract renegotiation they won't wait too long to recast that role either. And you can bet they'll do a Loganesque film soon when someones contract is ending. Marvel has to be jealous there were actual conversations in Hollywood for Deadpool to be nominated for Best Picture & that there's an even stronger & more genuine conversation going on right now in the industry for Logan to get a nominee this year has got to get under their skin as a brand. Marvel is the king of the comic world right now, no one can argue that, but no one in the industry has ever put forth a genuine argument for why one of their films should receive a nomination for the top spot (fact: none are deserving is why) & that's gotta bug Marvel a bit. So don't be shocked when one of the first Marvel movies to come after the fourth Avengers movie is called STARK.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby movieartman » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:08 pm

Final Wonder Woman trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INLzqh7rZ-U

Gal's delivery of the "I am" line was pretty damn good at least to my ears.
Love her flipping the tank over.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Ray » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:21 pm

Well. . . this is both awesome and worrisome. It's from I09 so take it with a pinch or two of salt.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/warner-bros-is-l ... 9434676735

DC and WB looking to Matt Vaughn (Kingsman, Kick-Ass, X-Men First Class) to direct Man Of Steel 2.

On one hand, I think this could work. He's known for hyper-styized directing that can mesh well with Zack Snyders and ease the transition between his vision for the DCEU and Geoff Johns. and he is known for making some great Comic Book movies.

If they're willing to give him the reigns to Man Of Steel 2, well there are far worse choices.

On the other hand? Here's my biggest worry that this article points out.

Matthew Vaughn wrote:I think that’s the one thing not to do with Superman, trying to do the serious The Dark Knight version. Superman is about color and fun, or it should be, for me.


The article also says

if Vaughn still feels that way, maybe it suggests Warner Bros. is ready to start pushing that dark, Snyder vision out of the way as long rumored. Maybe they want Vaughn’s colorful, boisterous vision. And maybe, like we said, this will be less a Man of Steel sequel and more a reboot of the character as a whole. The opportunity is right there considering he’s, well, dead at the moment.


Well. . . looks like it's been confirmed. Instead of sticking to the original creative vision of a more serious, somber, semi-realistic, consequence heavy, Superhero universe they're opting to soft reboot and be diet Marvel instead. FACK.

DC! WB! I agree you need to lighten up a little. But you're OVERcorrecting! Don't make the next Superman movie all jokes and campy Silver Age Richard Donner Pastiche just because the last movie didn't resonate with crritics! That'll just cause mood backlash! They'll think you're 'trying too hard to be Marvel' and never give your movies the credit they deserve even if they are good!
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Bagheera » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:32 pm

Ray: I will only point to your previous post in this very thread and ask that you meditate for a spell on the inherent contradiction in your positions re: Jackman and Snyder's Superman. I would also ask that you recognize the fact that black and white thinking is not helping your state of mind, and that assuming Snyder has the wrong of things does not mean one embraces Silver Age camp as the only alternative.
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby movieartman » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:46 pm

Using the tone of First Class for MOS2 I will say is a fair middle ground, that was plenty fun but had plenty of dark moments ("then I am going to move the coin")
Just don't do anything approaching how silly & outlandish Jackson was in Kingsman please.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Ray » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:11 pm

(Wall of text incoming)

I will only point to your previous post in this very thread and ask that you meditate for a spell on the inherent contradiction in your positions re: Jackman and Snyder's Superman.


I was (mostly) criticising Jackmans appearance as Wolverine. As a character he does get the viciousness across.

I just want the new Superman movie and Man Of Steel to be CONSISTENT with each other. I want to believe they can exist in the same universe. Logan (as of this post I haven't seen it) despite not being authentic to the comic book, at least kept the narrative/vision of the character they had from the previous X-Men movies intact. and in addition to that, there's precedent and an in universe reason for making Logan more like his comic book self in the previous X-Men movies (See Psylocke and Jubilee). There's not for Superman. or at least. Him dying seems like a very thin reason for an abrupt change in character.



I would also ask that you recognize the fact that black and white thinking is not helping your state of mind, and that assuming Snyder has the wrong of things does not mean one embraces Silver Age camp as the only alternative.


You need an extreme to understand an extreme. So hear me out.

Imagine if you made Frank Miller's Sin City, a movie full of death, violence, mean characters being mean to each other. Then because critics and audiences didn't like Sin City, you made the next Sin City movie a happy campy jokey romp where nobody dies, there aren't any stakes, and the characters in the previous movie act like the COMPLETE opposite of who they were in the last movie for no justifiable reason in story. Even if it was better received by critics, it's NOT the consistent with the original vision in the first film, and the audience is left with a serious case of mood whiplash. Or (as we talked before) imagine if Thor wasn't well received. So they made the NEXT Thor movie Sin-City/BVS level dark because they thought that was the reason people didn't like the character or the movie.

I do think we should get the version of Superman as he is in the comics. But 'gradually' develop the character, take time to grow the universe out of it's original darker tone bit by bit. Don't do it all at once and cause horrible mood whiplash. Same thing with Logan. Make the character become who he is in the comics over time.

I (mostly) agree with you! The problem is that DC and WB is being FAR too reactionary, and this announcement is just another symptom of that.

Man Of Steel under-performed, so instead of sticking to their creative vision and making another solo Superman movie to give their universe time to breathe. They shoehorned Batman into the next Superman movie because, Batman is the only 100% guaranteed Box Office draw in their entire stable.

Then when THAT wasn't received, instead of sticking to the original creative choices, they put the blame on the dark tone of BVS for it's critical mauling (which WAS NOT THE PROBLEM) so they butchered Suicide Squad in post to make it more 'fun' even though it's likely the original darker grimmer version would have been FAR better received.

Now instead of sticking to their original plan for Justice League, they're rewriting the script as they're filming, and shoehorning in Aquaman fish jokes right after the movie where Superman BIT THE BIG ONE. Yeah, 'Talk To Fish Jokes' are going to make me take the Apocalyptic Lovecraftian Nightmare version of Steppenwolf MUCH more seriously and NOT cause horrible mood whiplash.

Now instead of taking their time in order to let their movie universe breathe with more Solo movies we're getting MORE team-up movies which doesn't give us time to get to know the characters in their Solo movies( which IMO isn't necessarily the kiss of death, but given how well the prior movies were received it's not the right decision).

Now they're recruiting a director for MOS 2 that while he has made some fun movies, none of them really tackle bigger important themes like the original MOS did (and it DID, though your mileage on how well may vary), or are really 'serious'. Even Kingsman, which was a movie about stopping a Steve Jobs expy from killing millions of people came off more as a joke than anything else. Which is great for the tone they had in mind, but not for a Superman movie in the same universe as MOS or BVS.

Yeah, I can take Sam L Jackson murdering millions of people seriously when you play KC And The Sunshine Band over it!
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby movieartman » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:31 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:Him dying seems like a very thin reason for an abrupt change in character.

To be fair, its not just that, its a combination of feeling he needs to do better now that he has been given a 2nd chance, in combination with his declaration of accepting this world right before his death.
Also factoring in I think he blamed himself for the senate bombing because if he had been more publicly communicative beforehand the hearing might not have even been needed.

And it won't be too whiplashy. JL I think will be the transitional period, with the heroes coming together & resurrecting the hero who inspired them to come together in the first place.
I think Bruce & the fish joke was a misguided attempt by Bruce to subtly talk shit & gain his respect.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Sachi » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:37 pm

Enlightenment by death is not an unheard of trope. Think Gandalf the White, or anything pheonix related. Remember the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth.
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Guy Nacks » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:52 pm

DC buttfucked itself into soulless, joyless grimdark territory, thinking that doing things more seriously like the Nolanverse would pay dividends, but even the Nolan films and fucking Logan (which is the darkest film in that franchise by far) had some levity and chuckles every now and then.

I never enjoy myself when I watch a DC movie because the movies simply take themselves way WAY too seriously.
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Ray » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:59 pm

As I told GP if you're going to criticise these movies, the people who make them, the least you can do is not be a total grade A dick about it. By saying things like they "butt f***themselves".
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Guy Nacks » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:20 am

In that case, WB owns DC, so DC got F'd in the A by the VPs at WB because VIPs want DC to be like TDK.

Superhero Lives Matter.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Ray » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:45 am

^ this article from Screen Rant makes a very good argument for why the dceu should not change its tone or stop pursuing big themes just because a few of their films were not hits with critics.

http://screenrant.com/dceu-movies-critics-wrong/

He doesn't exactly defend the DC movies in terms of quality he simply says that they shouldn't stop trying to pursue darker as your subject matter just because the fans and critics get their panties in a twist.
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Ray » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:21 pm

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-batman-scr ... nd-delays/

‘The Batman’ Filming has been Delayed as the Script is being rewritten From Scratch

:lastresort:

Just when I think I can be optimistic and actually hope for DC's future . . .
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby movieartman » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:41 pm

Aquaman's release has movied to December 2018.
Praying Disney doesn't move Han Solo from May to December or it will be fucked financially.

Sony's Venom movie is still going forward set to be released October 5th 2018.
Presumably it will be set in the MCU.
Unfortunately 1 of the writers of ASM2 is writing it.
Really perplexed by this.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Ray » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:50 pm

The guys who are making the Marvel movies may want DC to succeed because friendly competition breeds success, but at this point I'm fairly certain the suits at Disney corporate want DC to fail so that Marvel can have a monopoly on the superhero genre until the bubble inevitably Pops.

Make no mistake they will move it to December. Because when you've got a choice between Star Wars and a joke superhero from a Cinematic Universe that hasn't gotten a fresh on RT yet. It's obvious which one the general audience is going to pay money to go see.
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Bagheera » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:56 pm

View Original Postmovieartman wrote:Aquaman's release has movied to December 2018.
Praying Disney doesn't move Han Solo from May to December or it will be fucked financially.

Sony's Venom movie is still going forward set to be released October 5th 2018.
Presumably it will be set in the MCU.
Unfortunately 1 of the writers of ASM2 is writing it.
Really perplexed by this.


WB should know better. December is SW month now, that's obvious to everyone. I guess they could release it in the first weekend or something, but that's rolling the dice for no good reason.

As to Venom . . . why, man? It's hard enough to make SM work, why the hell would anyone think forcing things with the damn symbiote would be a good idea?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Ray » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:38 am

:facepalm:

David S Goyer is going to write and Possibly direct the green lantern reboot.

http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/03/17/rumo ... -revealed/

At this point I've pretty much given up on Goyer. His screenwriting has been the metaphorical albatross around the DCEUS neck since the beginning. He needs to go, or at least be reassigned to a d-list character nobody cares about that he can afford to mess up.
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Bagheera » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:15 pm

Iron Fist: Having worked my way through it, I can say that it's pretty solidly in the middle of Marvel's Netflix shows. It has a much tighter plot than most, which really helps, and the cast is solid, which we've come to expect in these shows. However, the direction suffers throughout; the fight choreography is lackluster, particularly in the beginning (though it improves dramatically from about episode 7 onward, with episode 8 having one of the best fights in the whole of the Defenders shows), and Danny is depicted as a novice hero, someone who isn't familiar with his power or how it works and who can't use it reliably. That really hurts the show, as it means he doesn't have the same weighty presence the other Defenders have. But even with that issue the show is unquestionably his own; he doesn't have to deal with other supers cramping his style a la Jessica Jones or Daredevil S2, and the show doesn't suffer from proliferating villains a la Luke Cage or Daredevil. It's just Danny Rand ridding his company of the evil infesting it and taking the fight to the Hand, and that clarity of purpose does a lot to offset the show's various flaws.

Overall, recommended if you care to watch it, but your world won't end if you don't.

Edit: Rotten Tomatoes provides some interesting numbers for the curious: the critical consensus sits at 19%, while the audience reaction is a whopping 85%. Curious, eh? A big part of this, I think, is due to the fact that the critics were reviewing the first six episodes of the show while the audience got the whole thing. Unlike most Marvel shows Iron Fist got better with every episode, and it stuck the landing reasonably well. It also gave us a veritable avalanche of Asian actors starting with episode seven, which leaves the whole casting argument dead on arrival. But no matter the reason the reviewers really seem to have screwed the pooch with this one, as their assessment of the show doesn't seem to match up with the viewing audience's at all.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.



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