Superhero Films & TV

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Bagheera » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:11 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:Deadpool, Logan, Days Of Future Past, and First Class would like to have a word with you.


That's four out of more than a dozen (don't forget Fox gave us the FF movies, which are three turds to add to the mix), compared to the whole of the MCU and all the good shit DC's given us (the Nolanverse alone gives DC a better track record than Fox, and WW, JL, and Aquaman are more promising than anything we've ever seen from Fox apart from Logan). Unless Fox is giving us a standalone movie it really has nothing to offer.

(Sachi, Spider-Man was Sony/Columbia, and thus doesn't count for any of 'em. Homecoming will be MCU, of course.)

View Original Postmovieartman wrote:Yeah DOFP IMO is better then any MCU film except Winter Solider/Civil War. Just a tiny bit above GOTG.
First Class is close in quality to the 1st Iron Man.


DOFP was inferior to Avengers, WS/CW, GotG, IM, IM3, and DS. FC was a bit better; I'd rate it equal to several of those, but Avengers, WS, and IM3 still blow it out of the water.

And that's to say nothing of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, and even less of Marvel's Netflix series (which trump pretty much everything).
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Sachi » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:43 pm

Ah, you guys are right. I'm still with Bags though. When I hear "Fox Marvel films", all I can think of is shitty movies with the occasional gem like Deadpool, hence why I ignorantly grouped the Amazing Spiderman among them.
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby NemZ » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:23 pm

I don't get the hate for Daredevil. Is it just because Kevin Smith shit on it when they took it from him? Seemed decent enough to me at the time, though I haven't seen it since.
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:29 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Had the pleasure of getting to see LOGAN.
It has easily surpassed First Class as the best X-Men film. It's a genuine & moving movie that acts as an emotional send off for Hugh Jackman's character! Plus it's badass. It's not another dumb superhero movie but is an actual film from start to finish. No CG samurai's ruining the third act.


This is incredibly good news, and it means that (if this film does as well as Deadpool did financially--but let's face it, it's going to make BANK) studios will be more willing to put effort into more adult, R-rated superhero stories that can be made on a moderate budget and still rake in the cash.

Then again, we could just get a mediocre Blade reboot. :shrug:
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:51 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:What does dark even mean?

It simply means this.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pqv_LUStxDw
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:58 am

Logan looks cool, Days of Future Past was enjoyable to some degree, Apocalypse was horridly dull, I never saw Fant4stic *pats self on back*, First Class was the best X-Men movie that had more than two X-people in them, any of the Wolverine stand-alone films were either base-line rentable schlock or indefensibly a waste of time, the original 3 X-Men movies are overblown, boring (with exception to X-Men 2's marginally improved screenplay), and the sole reason why very few of the X-Men wear actual X-Men costumes, Deadpool was hella fun, and Chronical was the best X-Men could ever hope to achieve despite it actually not being an X-Men film.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby movieartman » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:48 pm

Possible Wonder Woman spoilers...

SPOILER: Show
Apparently their was screenings last night, claims of David Thewlis playing Ares not Danny Huston persist.
Toys appear to confirm Ares's presence. That said BVS had some toys with Lex in a mecha suit so this is not a absolute confirmation, I personally would like to see Ares in the 3rd trailer but I fully support Dc if they pull back and don't do so after the negative reaction that spoiling Doomsday got.
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Looks good to me, a bit like Kurse from Thor 2 but considering Kurse was much much more badass and menacing then the main villain in that film that is a good thing.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Bagheera » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:59 pm

So does he have metal skin, or is his armor just freakishly anatomically-correct?
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I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Ray » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:57 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8cQ6mLMjE

Midnight's Edge: Wonder Woman plot leaked, and it's quality.

Please be good. . . Please just be passably good. I just want to believe there might be hope for the DC Universe at this point because right now hope is all we have left
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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:29 pm

I would love for Wonder Woman to be a good movie. Unlike the DC movies of last year, WW doesn't have any apparent mismanagement prior to its release, which is refreshing for a non-Marvel superhero movie. I'm tired of reshoots replacing everything I saw in trailers.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:36 pm

Ready for a headache?
Matt Reeves is back on to direct THE BATMAN.

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/the-batman-director-matt-reeves-1201994946/

I would love a documentary about what is going on behind the scenes there.
No mention of whether Ben Affleck is starring. That could just be forgotten in the article or could be something more.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Chuckman » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:52 pm

It really sounded like the whole thing was going to be Affleck's cohesive vision for the character and now it's just another WB/DC studio movie with Affleck in the lead.

I do hope there are books written about this. It sounds like it's a complete shitshow behind the scenes. The higher-ups have no plan and no taste. It amazes me how someone can turn a license to print money into shit... and it'll still print money so there's no reason for them to learn or change.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Ray » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:04 pm

@Gendospapa
What are you doing turning something that is inherently good news into another excuse to say something is going to be crap? That's my job! this is a good thing! All that happened was that he was going to drop out because he wanted a 12 mil salary to do the job, and WB didn't want to pay the full price. But 12 mil is a small price to pay to save your cinematic universe from collapsing in on itself.

@chuckman


It really sounded like the whole thing was going to be Affleck's cohesive vision for the character and now it's just another WB/DC studio movie with Affleck in the lead.


WB is a studio that is known for putting it's directors vision first. and that's great for smaller films or standalones, but it's totally counter-intuitive when it comes to building a cinematic universe.

You can't move the cart forward when the horses are pulling it in ten different directions, all that does is damage the cart. Marvel has been known for alienating directors who they were optioning to direct their movies. Ant Man went through several directors, so did Black Panther. Why in both cases did the two directors leave? Because Marvel put the boot down and kept them from creating 'their vision' of the characters which doesn't fit in with 'Marvels Vision' for the characters and the universe.

At this point Chuck. WB has realized that they're original Idea for a 'director focused' cinematic universe was a pipe dream. So they're doing what Marvel is, for better and for worse. I would love to see a 'Director Focused' superhero universe, with various directors giving their own takes on iconic characters. But it's not going to happen, not after the backlash to BVS and the editorial scramble to 'course correct' Suicide Squad. If you're going to make a cinematic universe one of the movies HAS to have wide appeal. They don't care if the Affleck Batman movie is generic, they care that the movie gets better RT rating than the last two movies they released.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Bagheera » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:04 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I do hope there are books written about this. It sounds like it's a complete shitshow behind the scenes. The higher-ups have no plan and no taste. It amazes me how someone can turn a license to print money into shit... and it'll still print money so there's no reason for them to learn or change.


What astounds me is the fact that they handle that license well in the Dinniverse and do a passable job with it in the Arrowverse and did a really fucking awesome job with the Nolanverse. How can the same company handle the same property brilliantly in some contexts and disastrously in others? It's absolutely bizarre.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:11 pm

Hey, I say good stuff too. I heard Alien: Covenant is phenomenal & said so in Prometheus thread. Plus I'm one of the stalwart Rebuild/3.0 supporters here.


Anywho, THE BATMAN will be what it will be. Matt Reeves (back) on-board still is a good sign. He hasn't made a bad movie yet & the early news on his next movie, WAR FOR THE PLANET OF THE APES, is that it's stupendous.

Of course WB also finally made it official (it's been a secret word of mouth thing for a while) that LEGO BATMAN director Chris McKay is making a NIGHTWING movie for them which I guess would come out a little after THE BATMAN so who knows what is going on over there.

PS. Warner Brothers lucked out with Christopher Nolan & vice versa. They needed to reinvent Batman after the Joel Schumacher films & when they went with Nolan the original plan was to get a bit more fantastical in the later films & if it involved cutting Nolan than so be it. But then because he "saved Batman" a cult essentially built around Nolan as "the greatest filmmaker alive" & it would have been tantamount to suicide to go with a different director. So they played by Nolan's rules & allowed him to make his passion projects between Bat films - The Prestige & Inception - and now he's the juggernaut filmmaker he is today.

Problem with the DC Cinematic Universe is the same problem they've had since announced it with Batman V. Superman so soon after Man of Steel's relative disappointment: they want to catch up to Marvel without doing any of the basic character-building legwork. BVS, the first official DCCU(?) film, is essentially Captain America: Civil War, the 13th MCU film

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Ray » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:18 pm

That's a false equivalence. Guardians of the Galaxy introduced a whole bunch of new characters without needing to establish each of them in their own previous movies, and look how that movie turned out. That movie BARELY tied into the greater Marvel cinematic universe. There's nothing that says you HAVE to make a bunch of individual Superhero movies before you have them all meet, it all rests in the execution. Which sadly is lacking, though I put the blame for BVS more on Goyer than I do Snyder.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:47 pm

Guardians was a team movie where a bunch of misfits came together & take down an evil (mostly) removed from the rest of the MCU. It's straightforward & economic storytelling. It's The Dirty Dozen with five weirdos.

BvS tried to have audiences pick a side as two of the world's most famous superheros went head to head in a poorly designed brawl even though neither of these two versions had been adequately build up as characters or even had any real interactions with each other. At the same time the film tired to set up the concept of an oncoming Justice League mostly handled through Wonder Woman watching Apple Movie trailers for the upcoming DC films, the arrival of an Ultimate Evil mostly done through piss poor exposition, tonally different Mad Max like dream sequences & an appearance by the Flash through a worm hole six films from now that can only be described as nonsensical AND the film still needed have the good guys come together through a poorly developed commonality (SAVE MARTHA! lol) & an even poorly conceived evil threat - a cave troll or Doomsday I guess - AND handle the Death of Superman ANNNNNND set up the idea of Superman's Resurrection in the next film.

Batman V Superman is a trash film that tries to do too much.
It's a wash of a film that like IRON MAN 2 spends too much setting up what is to come without telling a proper story. At least in Iron Man 2's defense we have a solid idea of who Tony Stark is from the first film & Sam Rockwell is having fun.
Last edited by Gendo'sPapa on Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Ray » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:48 pm

Like I said. Executiion.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:52 pm

Don't see what point you're arguing but sure. Deciding to tell a coherent story (Guardians) vs throwing a bunch of shit at the wall in hopes it sticks (everything DCCU) is most certainly an example of good vs bad execution. A good story starts with a script. DC hasn't tried that yet.

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Re: Superhero Films & TV

Postby Chuckman » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:16 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:What astounds me is the fact that they handle that license well in the Dinniverse and do a passable job with it in the Arrowverse and did a really fucking awesome job with the Nolanverse. How can the same company handle the same property brilliantly in some contexts and disastrously in others? It's absolutely bizarre.


The DCAU (I think calling it the DIniverse gives him a little too much credit- Bruce Timm was instrumental too) would be an excellent model for how to do these films:

* There was a head honcho who gave the whole thing a direction and set a consistent tone
* The showrunners understood how the DC universe characters vary tonally and how to play those elements of tone and style off one another
* The showrunners had a deep respect and love for the material
* The showrunners understood also how fucking goofy comics can be, and brought that across without clashing too hard with the serious moments and without mocking either the material or the fans
* The showrunners knew how to do a long term storyline with a payoff. BTAS and STAS were still episodic as required by television standards of the day but were vastly ahead of their time in terms of developing an ongoing sense of continuity and story, so much so that episodes of Justice League Unlimited referenced characters and plots from BTAS episodes made in the 90's

What they need to do is:

1. Get somebody who knows and enjoys comics and has editorial/management experience
2. Sit them down and let them plot out an overall arc
3. Decide which characters to feature and which characters should be introduced as side characters
4. Hire competent directors
5. Make the fucking movies
6. Profit

The big reason these movies are coming out so bad is lack of organization and studio thinking. Zack Snyder is good because he adapted Watchmen and 300, he does comic books, let's hire him! People like the Suicide Squad trailer more than the movie, let's have the trailer editors recut the film! Let's make a Batman and Superman movie and jam pack everything we can possibly think of into it until it becomes an overstuffed mess!

Honestly I think the whole "shared universe" thing is tripping them up. They should just start making good standalone movies. Make a good Superman movie. Make a good Batman movie. Make a good Wonder Woman movie. If they're all popular then sure, mash them up. Don't worry about continuity between movies. Find directors who suit the projects and give them room to do something creative and fun with the characters.

Continuity can be a great asset or it can kill storytelling. If the audience comes out of a movie more worried about what happened in a different movie, the one they just saw probably sucks.

See: How no one asks why the Avengers aren't in a Cap or Iron Man movie but people are asking where the hell they were in Dark World. Because Dark World wasn't a very good movie.


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