Satsuki versus Gendo, Light and sundry schemers

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:59 am

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:Holy shit! Did not expect this when I watched episode 3. This is Gendo level. (I even laughed when Gamagori explained their plan in episode 15).


Gendo level? Gendo wishes he was Satsuki tier. Gendo's a fucking poseur, Satsuki's the real deal.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:39 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Gendo level? Gendo wishes he was Satsuki tier. Gendo's a fucking poseur, Satsuki's the real deal.

Now I have the mental image of Gendo in FINAL giving a motivational speech like Ragyo like "Core is the world! Core is life! Core is everything!" while Misato gives a frenzied motivational speech like Satsuki to the whole Wunder fleet just before the final battle!

That would be AWESOME. :lol:
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Postby GAP » Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:41 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Now I have the mental image of Gendo in FINAL giving a motivational speech like Ragyo like "Core is the world! Core is life! Core is everything!" while Misato gives a frenzied motivational speech like Satsuki to the whole Wunder fleet just before the final battle!

That would be AWESOME. :lol:


IT would be aesome but then it wouldn't Evangelion if someone had gotten screwed over by the process.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:47 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Gendo level? Gendo wishes he was Satsuki tier. Gendo's a fucking poseur, Satsuki's the real deal.


That depends on what pose you think is cooler : the Gendo Pose or the Satsuki Pose, and whether scheming and plotting to hijack an apocalypse is better than scheming and plotting to stab Ragyo in the back and chop off her head.

What's the real difference between Gendo's treachery and Satsuki's? Gendo had everything going "according to the scenario" all the way till Rei's rejection in the bitter, bitter end demolished the whole works. Satsuki, who should have known better what Ragyo was made of, blew it much earlier on and got thrashed for it. Gendo is still the better schemer, even though Satsuki is by far the better tyrant.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:56 pm

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:That depends on what pose you think is cooler : the Gendo Pose or the Satsuki Pose, and whether scheming and plotting to hijack an apocalypse is better than scheming and plotting to stab Ragyo in the back and chop off her head.


One can be proven (and proven effective), the other cannot. That is all I need.

What's the real difference between Gendo's treachery and Satsuki's? Gendo had everything going "according to the scenario" all the way till Rei's rejection in the bitter, bitter end demolished the whole works. Satsuki, who should have known better what Ragyo was made of, blew it much earlier on and got thrashed for it. Gendo is still the better schemer, even though Satsuki is by far the better tyrant.


Gendo's a wannabe, since he failed by every measure. Satsuki succeeded, and that's what counts in the end. So the real difference is that Satsuki succeeded and Gendo failed, simple as that.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Firetrout » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:06 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Gendo's a wannabe, since he failed by every measure. Satsuki succeeded, and that's what counts in the end. So the real difference is that Satsuki succeeded and Gendo failed, simple as that.




Gendo bit off more than he could chew. Though what really screwed him over was letting his emotionally suppressed underling hang around someone who's clearly much, much nicer.

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Postby UrsusArctos » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:25 pm

Never mind. Satsuki wins.
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The main point of idiocy is for the smart to have their lulz. Without human idiocy, trolling would not exist, and that's uncool, since a large part of my entertainment consists of mocking the absurdity and dumbassery of the world, especially the Internet.-MaggotMaster

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:58 am

The big problem is also that we saw the minute details of Satsuki's plan, while we're completely left in the dark about what Gendo exactly do except one or two cryptic meetings and conversations here and there, and only at the end we learn that it was actually according to his plan.

It would be as if we skip all of Light's planning and explanations and jumped directly to the end results of his plans, without even a flash-back afterwards explaining what he did.
Although even with explanations Lights often comes as rather broken and nigh psychic, and I admit that Gendo isn't as smart and manipulative as he make himself to be, and most of his plans have an heavy dose of luck and are more akin to all-out bets. (see in 2.0 when after his first move against Bethany Base, SEELE pushed him completely against the ropes in record time)
Last edited by ElMariachi on Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Fireball » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:32 am

Satsuki has the eyebrows of justice. All arguments are invalid.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:43 am

Split this out since it had turned into a tangent. Anyway...

Yes, Satsuki wins in terms of awesomeness, but I am still going with Gendo as a character. Satsuki is superhuman herself even without being a life fiber hybrid - just look at her literally blow away Sanageyama's huge gang in her flashback. She works on a different level. Gendo is more an evil administrator, scheming in his own quiet way. The real difference between the two characters is that Satsuki learns from her failure with people and has time to correct herself, but by the time Gendo realized the magnitude of his error, it was too late.

Against Light Yagami, well...Light simply doesn't count next to those two.

Fireball wrote:Satsuki has the eyebrows of justice. All arguments are invalid.


Gendo has the pose of pure evil. Everything goes according to his scenario, even things that don't go according to plan!
(Was Board Staff from Dec 31, 2007 - Oct 17, 2015 and Oct 20, 2020 - Aug 1, 2021)
Not knowing that Monk is bi is like not knowing the Pope is Catholic - ZapX
You're either really bad at interpreting jokes or really good at pretending you are and I have no idea which.-Monk Ed
WAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!(<-link to lunacy)...Taste me, if you can bear it. (Warning: Language NSFW)
The main point of idiocy is for the smart to have their lulz. Without human idiocy, trolling would not exist, and that's uncool, since a large part of my entertainment consists of mocking the absurdity and dumbassery of the world, especially the Internet.-MaggotMaster

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:32 am

Satsuki wins in terms of sheer awesome, in terms of being an antagonist, and in terms of being a human being. She realized in a few weeks what Gendo didn't manage for decades, and this despite the fact the latter had a wife and son to give him perspective. Pose for pose they're about equal, but I'm hard-pressed to see what else Gendo brings to the table.

In fairness, Satsuki did have an awful lot of support, and had it for much of her life. That did give her a considerable advantage Gendo never really had. But going from "Pigs in human clothing!" to "Snap out of it, Ryuko! RYUKO!" . . . she's just god tier, man.
Last edited by Bagheera on Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Squigsquasher » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:37 am

Everything pales next to the force of nature that is Mako.

Team Dai-Gurren can tell probability to fuck itself.

Mako can tell the plot to fuck itself.

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Postby Fireball » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:33 pm

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:Gendo has the pose of pure evil. Everything goes according to his scenario, even things that don't go according to plan!

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of RESOLVE.
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Postby GAP » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:15 pm

Satsuki also has the excuse of being in a wacky, animated series that exaggerates everything and runs on Nekketsu.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:53 am

WTF? That joke I made ended up as a topic? lol
I'd say Satsuki is awesome but seriously, Gendo has a 14 year plan, Rebuild Gendo apparently planned 28 years ahead.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:36 am

^
Seeing that at the end of 2.0 he was saying that his plan would be completed soon and that in 3.0, 14 years later, he's still at it and is using EVA-13 in place of EVA-01, I would rather say that something happened during the time skip that completely screwed over his plan (probably related to the 12th Angel reaching Lilith) and that he had to adapt his plans, which took him 14 years.

If anything, he's good at bouncing back after a set back, which isn't Satsuki's case, who bet everything in her surprise attack in the Ragyo stadium, after that it was mostly improvisation.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Firetrout » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:55 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
Seeing that at the end of 2.0 he was saying that his plan would be completed soon and that in 3.0, 14 years later, he's still at it and is using EVA-13 in place of EVA-01, I would rather say that something happened during the time skip that completely screwed over his plan (probably related to the 12th Angel reaching Lilith) and that he had to adapt his plans, which took him 14 years.



Nonsense, that was only the first plan in his plan.


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