Ghosts of Evangelion

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Literary Eagle
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Postby Literary Eagle » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:12 pm

Okay, finally had time to read this! Aw, and here I was hoping that you were going to do a fic about your ideas concerning Yui saving the Angels. But don’t get me wrong; a post-3I fic about Asuka and Shinji getting together in a realistic way is also very cool! Anyway, here’s some feedback… it’s long, so I’ll put it under a spoiler cut. (Sorry about the length… I read all the parts of the story in one go).

SPOILER: Show
May 23, 2020:

I think this was a nice place to start, even though it’s obviously not the first thing that happened chronologically. The year shows they’ve been taking things slowly, and even still they’ve got a ways to go. I like the idea of a fic where the characters have to really work at overcoming their issues. Good stuff! I think my only complaints about this part – and they’re very minor ones – are a couple of typos (“smiile” instead of “smile”, “illuminatiing” instead of “illuminating”). Also, you used both “omelette” and “omelet” (both spellings are correct, but it just looks better to pick one and stick with it… if it helps you to decide, “omelet” is the one used more often in American writing, and “omelette” is more common outside of America). Like I said, very minor complaints.

September 10, 2018/October 10, 2018:

Ugh, a doctor doing such things to his patients… poor Asuka. Misato did indeed drop the ball in terms of looking after the pilots, but even still, she was one of the few people who at least tried. So I really liked seeing the conversation between Asuka and Misato, and seeing Misato vow to do better.

January 28, 2016:

Ouch. Those poor kids. I like your portrayal of Asuka. You don’t put her on a pedestal and ignore her faults, but you don’t reduce her to nothing more than a hateful bitch stereotype either. I’ve seen a lot of people go too far in one direction or the other (usually the hateful bitch one).

February 3, 2016:

Hmm. Well, I don’t agree with everything Asuka said about Kaworu, but considering that she’s just going based on what she knows, it’s understandable that she said those things. At any rate, she is correct that what happened isn’t entirely Shinji’s fault, so it’s nice to see her acknowledge that.

September 9, 2018:

Oh my, I was not breathing easily during this part. Sure, I knew in the back of my head that she was going to be okay eventually, given the date on this segment, but still… yikes. Poor Asuka.

By the way, just one little typo (“listended” instead of “listened”).

October 7, 2018:

Really nice to see more interaction between Asuka and Misato, and seeing some discussion about Asuka’s future was good as well. It helps to explain why she’s staying in Japan.

There was also a tiny little typo: just one place where Kotetsu’s name was not capitalized… sorry for pointing out typos; I’m doing that in case it’s helpful, not because I’m trying to be nitpicky… but if you find it irritating instead of helpful, please let me know and I’ll try to remember not to do that.

March 12, 2016:

Ow, my heart! It’s good to see a story where Asuka realizes the negative consequences of things she says, but in way that shows she’s a human being making a mistake and she regrets it, unlike bashfics that just go out of their way to make Asuka look bad. I really liked what you did with this one!

September 16, 2018:

Very interesting conversation between Asuka and Toji. Eva pilots can understand each other on a level that others can’t, so it’s nice to see them bond over it. Toji’s stint as a pilot may have been brief, but it was, shall we say, eventful enough that such an experience could never be easily forgotten. The social commentary about gender stereotypes was good, too. That type of thing works well with Evangelion, in my opinion.

March 14, 2016:

Awwww. I loved this one. Asuka doing something nice for Shinji, while still being in character. Not enough fan fics pull this off very well. Awwww.

June 1, 2020:

I winced at this part… not because of anything terribly wrong with the writing, though! The stuff about Asuka and Shinji’s painful first attempt at sex made me feel really bad for them, that’s all. But I like that it wasn’t the mystical healing sex that happens in so many other fics... that story device is not very realistic, plus it gets old after a while. I don’t know enough about psychologists to feel truly qualified to judge this part of the story properly, but I will say it’s a step up from the ridiculously bad portrayals I’ve come across in a few other Eva fics.

October 13, 2019:

Ah, the confession! Well, that certainly wasn’t all sunshine and roses, but that makes perfect sense, considering the people we’re talking about and everything that’s happened to them. I liked that Toji and Hikari were there to help out. It wouldn’t be realistic for Asuka and Shinji to only rely on each other all the time; they need to have friends to help them get through this. I hope to see more characters show up in future installments! Also, I was glad to see Shinji stand up to Asuka in this part. A lot of people seem to forget that Shinji actually is capable of doing that.

September 14, 2018:

Yay, more Misato and Asuka interaction! Asuka saying that Misato has done more for her in a week than her father and stepmother did in her entire life was equal parts “Yeah! Go, Misato!” and “Waaah, poor Asuka!” It was something heartwarming and yet stabbing me in the heart at the same time. Thanks a lot! ;_; …Seriously though, good job with that.

August 26, 2016:

Ah, now here’s a scene that really needed to happen! It’s such a shame that Toji just kind of disappeared from the anime after losing his leg. Rather anticlimactic. Thank goodness for fan fiction, eh? Also, it was good to see more Shinji stuff. If this fic is supposed to be about Asuka and Shinji, then it would be nice to get more Shinji-focused scenes.

September 12, 2018:

Nice to see Hikari is looking out for Asuka. Also, I love the idea of Shinji playing the cello as a way to comfort Asuka when she doesn’t want people getting too close physically.

Just a few more typos in this one (“happpened” instead of “happened”, “Shnji” instead of “Shinji”, “responed” instead of “responded”, and “clappiing” instead of “clapping”).

Overall: Really nice to see a post-3I fic about Shinji and Asuka working on their issues and getting together in a more realistic way. Unlike a number of other stories, you didn’t simply ignore their problems for the sake of making the fic easier to do, or have everything fixed by a magical sex scene (sometimes also a magical pregnancy… ugh), or throw characterization out the window by turning Asuka into an unrecognizable perfect saint and/or Shinji into a macho hero stereotype to “improve” things. It’s also wonderful to have other characters helping out, rather than making it seem as if Asuka and Shinji exist in a vacuum or something. I hope to see other characters show up in the future, and I also hope to see more Shinji scenes to balance out the Asuka ones. Keep up the good work, and sorry again about the length of this… I don’t usually do long posts, but something about the premise of this fic, and the way the scenes are not in chronological order, has captivated me. Since you don’t want your thread to get cluttered, feel free to PM me if you want to respond, or ask questions, or simply tell me to shut up. -o-;
The Happy Red Planet (my Evangelion fan fic)

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Postby Ray » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:32 pm

Bagheeras Fic is more of a realistic kind of positive ending as opposed to all the idealist fairy tale happy endings most writers seem to go for.

Not that I don't mind that from time to time. . . But its refreshing to see someone tackle this in a way that could actually happen.

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:43 am

Literary Eagle: Thanks for the feedback. As a general rule I don't mind having flaws pointed out, as it makes it easy for me to fix them! I've fixed the typos in my copy; I'm going through now doing general edits (mainly adding attributions, since I have an awful lot of orphaned quotes floating around), and will update the posts in this thread with edited versions this weekend sometime (I'll include links to the edited versions in the OP as I go). It was also nice to see all the dates laid out like that, since even I had started to lose track of what was happening where! -o-;

Re: Yui and the Angels: Funny you should mention that . . .

As I said, Dr. Okada and Misato is next. After that, A Mother's Work (which is what "What does Asuka do, exactly?" became). I hope to get scenes between Shinji and Misato and Shinji and Dr. Okada in there as well, but I'm still working on what to actually say with those; with Misato, it would obviously be the implications of "We'll do the rest when you come back." With Dr. Okada . . . not sure yet.

And at some point Shinji and Asuka have to talk about that scene. That will probably be in the post-3I days, with maybe a callback later. Still mulling that one over.

Ray: I'm sure NemZ would have something to say about the fic's realism (or, from his perspective, the lack thereof)! :lol:
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Literary Eagle » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:41 am

Bagheera wrote:Thanks for the feedback.


Oh, you're very welcome. I know what it's like to want feedback, plus your fic is one of the better takes on post-3I Asuka and Shinji that I've read in quite some time. Please keep up the good work!

Bagheera wrote:Re: Yui and the Angels: Funny you should mention that . . .


Oh? Can it be this fic will have some of that after all? Awesome! Now you've got my attention even more! :D
The Happy Red Planet (my Evangelion fan fic)

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:16 am

Ugh. Getting into the proper mindset for the Misato/Okada scene is taking forever. It doesn't help that I keep getting ideas for the following scene, A Mother's Work, either. Both scenes need to be exposition-heavy, too (the kids' treatment plans in the first, the kids getting answers in the second), so that slows things down as well. Very frustrating. :sigh: It does occur to me that focusing on the second scene might be a better choice at the moment, as it addresses a lot of unanswered questions about Eva, shows us what's going on outside of the kids and their relationship, and sets up some future chapters -- all things this fic very much needs at the moment IMO. Either way, I'll get something out this weekend, so please be patient. -o-;

In the meantime, some more background info:

Herz: So what is Herz, exactly? Well, like its predecessor, Herz is a U.N. organization with bases around the world and de facto autonomy regardless of region. It was formed by Nerv remnants about 6-8 months after 3I and granted official U.N. sanction shortly thereafter. Its stated purpose is the restoration of the global infrastructure and the dissemination of Nerv-derived technology to various private sectors around the world (i.e., what we once assumed was the cover story for Wille in the ENT series. You have no idea how tempted I was to name this outfit Wille, but I restrained myself so as to not confuse the hell out of people). This is made possible by the fact that cities with a heavy Nerv presence (Matsushiro, Beijing, Berlin, Boston, etc.) were able to get up and running after 3I very quickly. The rest of the world wasn't nearly as lucky -- Tines' and NemZ's nightmare scenarios played out exactly as expected in many areas -- and Herz is stepping in to pick up the slack.

Herz of course means "heart" in German, and like the other organizations (Gehirn, Nerv, and Seele) it is also a term with many different meanings. Gehirn refers to the brain, but also the mind. Nerv refers to nerve cells, but also to one's resolve in the face of hardship. And Seele refers to souls, but also to spirit. Herz, in turn, refers to the human heart, but also to love and compassion. This reflects Herz' basic principles as well as its methodology: it is not a military organization, nor a scientific body. Rather it is a civil administration with international clout and authority. And for the most part governments seem to like them; after all, when someone starts handing out supertech and radically improving your infrastructure you tend to give them pretty much whatever they want. And what they want is cooperation and a general lack of animosity and bloodshed.

But how do they do that, you ask? It's a fair question -- Nerv got where it did by bleeding the world dry, so it's not like Herz can keep up if it doesn't use the same methods. But it doesn't have to -- prior to 3I Nerv perfected the S2 engine, and that knowledge still exists. It requires a biological medium in which to operate, but with the precedent of the Magi we know that biological computers and biological/technological interfaces are established tech in the world of Eva. This means that, if the S2s for the unfinished MPEs can be installed in various Nerv installations around the world -- my initial thought is in Matsushiro (moved to Tokyo-2), Beijing, and either Berlin or Kiev -- there is a post-scarcity foundation upon which to build the rest of Herz. Can they build more such engines? Not right now; it's too expensive, even now. But it's enough to make those cities independent, and to make them unwavering pillars of support for the regions around them. And here we get to Asuka's job -- her goal is to find ways to interface with the S2 engines, to tap into their unlimited potential and use it to better humanity. She's got a looooooot of work to do!

Legal status of the kids: The kids are officially in the custody of Herz, with Misato as their guardian. This is important, since it means they're effectively insulated from normal nationalistic concerns -- it means the U.S. and Germany can't force Asuka to leave Japan, and that Japan can't fuck with the kids (either for propaganda purposes, reprisal for their actions while at Nerv, whatever). This is also how Misato was able to quash a legit arrest warrant so easily: since Asuka was in Herz custody a municipal arrest warrant from Japan doesn't carry much weight. Japanese authorities might not be too happy about that, but given the tremendous work Herz is doing in Japan they don't have much room to complain.

Yui: She won't be showing up in the story (sorry LE), but the weight of her decisions will definitely be felt. The main hurdle there was figuring out how to make her motives known, but I think I've got that problem licked.

Location, location, location! I'm surprised no one's asked where the story takes place! But then, I guess Tokyo-2 would be the logical conclusion. And that is indeed the location -- Tokyo-2, AKA Matsumoto, Japan. I was thinking about going with Nagano, since that's where the Matsushiro complex was, but the capital's a much better choice. It's also only three hours from Kyoto by train, so that means my snap decision to send Asuka to Kyoto early on isn't as insane as I feared it might be! -o-;

. . . and that's all I got for now. More as it comes, or as people ask.
Last edited by Bagheera on Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby KingXanaduu » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:46 pm

^

Nice choice on the name, cause all previous organizations lacked the very thing that MADE us human.

And good to know that THIS organization isn't funded by some kabal of ancient old men bent on the spiritual survival of humanity at the expense of it's own soul.
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Postby NemZ » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:14 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I'm surprised no one's asked where the story takes place! But then, I guess Tokyo-2 would be the logical conclusion. And that is indeed the location -- Tokyo-2, AKA Matsumoto, Japan.


I actually WAS just about to complain about the 'realism' of there even being a Tokyo-3 for this story to be happening in post 3I, but this solves that issue nicely. As for the rest, though I still disagree with some of the issues of setting at least you're making it clear that recovery from the event on both a personal and global scale is going to take a lot of time and hard work.
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"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:33 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:I actually WAS just about to complain about the 'realism' of there even being a Tokyo-3 for this story to be happening in post 3I, but this solves that issue nicely. As for the rest, though I still disagree with some of the issues of setting at least you're making it clear that recovery from the event on both a personal and global scale is going to take a lot of time and hard work.


I think the main deciding point is that I assume there are three S2 engines available to work with. This is a handwave, no doubt, and could easily go either way, but I think you'd agree that that's a major factor when it comes to worldbuilding, no? Between that and the tech that went into Tokyo-3 I think I have at least a little bit of ground to play with. ;)

Also, check again if you've read my previous post already -- lots of edits there!
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby NemZ » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:29 pm

If you stack the deck with viable S2s, intact Magi systems and people coming back both soon and in the nearby vicinity who know how to make these both work then it's believable that the world wouldn't be utterly fucked, yes. Still mostly fucked, but there's hope for a comeback in the long game.

Any fic with the guts to tackle the hard work rather than handwaving it all for convenient waff is at least worth a read in my book, even if I don't personally care for all the factors involved.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
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Postby Literary Eagle » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:53 am

Interesting background info, Bagheera! I've often wondered what could happen if S2 engines were used for things other than Evas, so it's nice to see a fic go with that idea. There is great potential to use that kind of power to help people (as opposed to using it for weaponry and/or turning everyone into orange juice), so it's quite exciting, even if it would take a while to figure everything out.

Also, I look forward to the revelation of Yui's motives! There's bound to be some fascinating stuff there!
The Happy Red Planet (my Evangelion fan fic)

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:08 pm

Edit: It's gone!
Last edited by Bagheera on Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:33 am, edited 6 times in total.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Literary Eagle » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:22 am

Aw yeah, I’ve been looking forward to this part! :woohoo:

Your ideas concerning Yui’s motives are really fascinating. I agree that the Angels should be saved (although I don’t agree with a number of Yui’s methods here… for example, the way she tricked poor Kyoko makes me feel sick). So many fics try to “fix” Evangelion by turning Shinji into a macho badass stereotype so he can achieve bigger and better methods of exterminating the Angels, but I always thought that was kind of missing the point. The Angels were humans too, and this was supposed to be their planet in the first place, so I find it a bit sad that they had to be wiped out for Seele’s damn prophecies, instead of getting a second chance elsewhere. Trying to find a way to save both the Lilin and the Angels is one of the things that pushed me into writing an Eva fic as well, but my stuff tends to be more comedic, so I’m really glad to see someone do a completely serious take on it. Again, I don’t agree with a lot of Yui’s methods, but it’s still interesting to see a fic that mentions the Angels getting a second chance after all. (But if I had the opportunity, I’d definitely give Yui an earful for what she did to her family and Asuka’s family!)

I also liked that Misato spoke up in Rei and Kaworu’s defense, and explained that the situation was probably a lot more complicated than anyone realized. First of all because I can’t stand it when a fic with any romantic pairing, no matter which pairing it is, bashes or vilifies the other potential love interests to make the author’s OTP seem like the obvious choice. It’s just so lazy and unnecessary (especially unnecessary in this case, since Rei and Kaworu are both dead anyway). Your fic has been doing a great job at bringing Asuka and Shinji together in a realistic way, rather than resorting to lazy writing, and this was no exception. Bravo! The second reason why I liked this is because so many fics portray Misato as blindly hating the Angels and never changing her mind about it, as if she’s incapable of processing new information. Her initial hatred of them is perfectly understandable, but her explanations to Shinji in EoE made it pretty clear that she was in fact starting to recognize the situation was more complex than “humans good, Angels bad”. Misato has faults just like everyone else in this series, but she’s not an idiot.

In terms of criticism, I think the beginning of Yui’s letter had a bit too much of a “As you know, Bob” vibe to it. If Bob… er, Fuyutsuki… already knew this stuff, why was she explaining it to him again? The answer, of course, is so Misato and Asuka and Shinji can understand what was going on, but I wonder if there’s a better way to pull that off. Maybe either change it so that Yui is filling him in on some additional details that he didn’t know, or have Yui express her thoughts and feelings on the situation in a way that unveils the details as she goes along? There were also a few typos, although I don’t have time to go over them at the moment. If you’d like, I can go over them later, unless someone else beats me to it first.

Anyway, please keep up the great work! This is quickly becoming one of my favorite Eva fics!
The Happy Red Planet (my Evangelion fan fic)

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Postby NemZ » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:07 am

Brutal honesty?

I'd suggest you pitch almost the whole thing. It doesn't seem to really follow the themes of the rest of the story and it's a giant awkward info dump (and a fanwank infodump at that). Plus the whole thing is predicated on a letter that Fuyutsuki would have to be out of his damn mind not to have destroyed a decade ago and that Yui should have known better than to write any of that down in the first place.

Keep Asuka thinking about her thesis and build towards the future, forget the past.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
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Postby pwhodges » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:03 am

I get what NemZ is thinking; it's a huge change of gear, and of perspective. But it's also a hugely fascinating fanwank that needs to exist somewhere, whether here or not! The problem will be making it fully integrated to the story. It may depend on just how much you are going to to do to cover the reactions to this on a wider scale. Also, we haven't really had anything that's prepared us for a revelation on this scale - discussions of issues that are answered by this, for instance - but because of the way you're writing this out of order, I think there's scope for providing something along those lines.

I like the idea that Lilith's soul got into Rei because they were trying to retrieve Yui's (which presumably resisted to preserve her plan).

There are a number of details that don't entirely ring true yet, though. The stuff about Yui thinking highly of Shinji when he's barely a toddler comes to mind - it's really too soon to be anticipating how he might fit into her plans; mind you, I have that concern in the series itself, so you have some justification! There's more, but I need more time to think about it.

I guess Misato's saying Nagisa rather then Kaworu is appropriate - but it just struck me as an imbalance when speaking of "Rei and Nagisa".


s/Resussication/Resuscitation/
s/fluorish/flourish/
s/it something/it's something/ (or: //is something/)
s/referrent/referent/
s/ambitions/ambitious/
s/the twisted/they twisted/ (?)
s/placing it the body/placing it in the body/
s/awhile/a while/ (it reads wrong to me, but it's so common now that I suspect I'm losing that battle!)
(one other I can't find right now)

You also use both lilin and lilim.
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"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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KingXanaduu
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Postby KingXanaduu » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:51 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Brutal honesty?

I'd suggest you pitch almost the whole thing. It doesn't seem to really follow the themes of the rest of the story and it's a giant awkward info dump (and a fanwank infodump at that). Plus the whole thing is predicated on a letter that Fuyutsuki would have to be out of his damn mind not to have destroyed a decade ago and that Yui should have known better than to write any of that down in the first place.

Keep Asuka thinking about her thesis and build towards the future, forget the past.


The thing of it is, the past NEEDS to be remembered in order for it's mistakes not to be repeated in the Future, and I personally think that part should be kept, although the execution of it could be a bit better. I don't know, it does feel a bit forced, but I personally feel that this is an issue that all of them have to face and learn to cope with: How the hell all this started.

And, I kind of like the hidden parent contrast that seems to be going on here with Shinji. In the original series, Shinji had almost NOBODY to help him deal with his issues with his father, and had to dealt with in on his own (and we saw how THAT failed miserably).
Now, he has to face the issues of his mother, but this time, he's surrounded by people who both love and want to help support him, and thus help him cope with this new revelation, showing him how much he has changed and moved on from his past self. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I thought it would've been a nice touch. :)

Aside from the execution, I still feel that this infodump is a keeper. It's gonna have to be addressed somehow in these fics, and I think you pulled it off okay where everyone is given the benefit of the doubt somehow. Not a lot of fics try to look at the other characters from multiple points of view. They all are very black/white in their views, hardly grey/gray/orange/blue. :) Keep up the good work Bags. :thumbsup:
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
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Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

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Postby pwhodges » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:11 am

There might be a possibility to make the discussion of Rei and Kaworu a separate chapter, to help make this chapter a bit closer to the scale of the rest. I.e., concentrate on Yui's motive in one chapter, and explain the wider implications another day.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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Postby Literary Eagle » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:10 am

I agree with pwhodges and xanderkh, the revelations should be preserved somewhere. They're very fascinating, plus the characters have a right to know why they went through all that (and the Angels deserve a chance to find a new home, considering the Lilin accidentally stole their freaking planet... yes, I know that seeing them arrive at their new world is beyond the scope of this fic, but it's still interesting to know that they at least got that second chance). It's just that the execution needs some work, because the "As you know, Bob" vibe was quite distracting.

Misato's defense of Rei and Kaworu needs to be kept somewhere as well, for the sake of being fair to those characters, and also because it shows how much Misato has grown and changed as a person. Let's not forget that Misato's blind hatred of the Angels nearly got Asuka killed in that volcano episode! As pwhodges suggested, maybe make this a separate chapter, so the length is more consistent with previous installments.

I see that pwhodges went over most of the typos already, so I just have a few more to add:

wore a cheshire grin (Cheshire needs to be capitalized)

Asuke narrowed her eyes

This is all your fault,, (double comma at the end)

Have a seat, dummkopf (Dummkopf needs to be capitalized... all nouns are capitalized in German)

she'd worked for for so long

Okay, I think that's it. I really enjoyed this installment; the execution just needs to be adjusted, and maybe it could be split into two chapters. Keep up the awesome work! :asuka_thumbsup:
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Postby pwhodges » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:24 am

I was uncertain about being strict capitalising "cheshire" in that usage (I've never seen it used that way, rather than "...like a Cheshire cat") - also, did you miss, or decide differently for "F/french fries", which quite often doesn't get its capital these days?

(My, aren't we being picky today!)

"she'd worked for for so long"

That one's correct.
Last edited by pwhodges on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

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Postby Literary Eagle » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:35 am

Personally, I would also use a capital F for French fry. But when I looked it up in the dictionary to be sure, it said that either way is fine, so I shrugged and didn't mention it. ^_^
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:34 pm

Wow, lots of responses. Thanks for the feedback! I'll get to a second round of errors this afternoon. As to the content:

The story itself: This chapter (can't call it a scene, I guess, since it has three parts) is useful for a number of reasons. It highlights (and begins to resolve) some of Shinji's non-Asuka related issues, things he couldn't address in any other way. He can deal with the stuff with his dad, yes, but Yui left him for reasons that were not at all clear to him. Cliched though it might seem, closure is a thing. It needs to happen before he can truly move on, and this is one of the only mechanisms I've encountered to make it happen. Additionally, this scene sets up a number of others (through the cafeteria scene) and goes a long way towards crystalizing the Children's perceptions of two of the most influential people in their lives: Rei and Kaworu. Pretty much all of this needs to happen in some form or other if they're going to move beyond licking their immediate wounds.

"As you know, Bob . . . " LE, I disagree with your reading here; this approach is lame when it's imparting information the characters already know, but here it's being used to establish a framework Yui will use to explain her long term goals, things Fuyutsuki doesn't know. Taking it out makes what comes after seem abrupt and confusing to me.

Split scenes: I agree the part with Misato's info dumps could stand to be in a separate scene; it's related to the rest, but it's also its own thing. I think what I'll do is have Shinji break off soon after reading the letter, and then pick up with the rest the following morning in a separate scene.

Integration: The key thing to remember re: integrating this into the rest of the story is that this isn't about Yui's work -- it's about the effect her choices had on Shinji. That seems out of place now because the story's been incredibly Asuka-centric thus far (whoops . . . -o-; ), but it's meant to be Shinji's story as well. And that's tricky: Asuka's story does since her story amounts to "everyone screwed me over but at least Misato and Shinji want to make amends, so fuck the rest and focus on them." That's very straightforward. But Shinji's a different case, since he was betrayed (or at least grievously injured) by people who claimed to love him. That needs to be explored, since it's important to understanding both his injuries and the path to recovery, but it also requires examining more angles than Asuka's story does, since the people who hurt Shinji aren't around to make amends. It requires a different approach.

Anyway, expect two split scenes (and fixed typos!) tonight, along with a bonus scene that ties them together.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


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