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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:03 pm

VUX wrote:Shinji should be the one to kill his father

NGE: Legacy Spoiler  SPOILER: Show
Been there, written that, and I'll admit it was very fun to do. Also did seem like the only logical person who should kill him besides maybe Rei.
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Postby VUX » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:02 pm

I felt like Rei should have been the one to kill Ritsuko, maybe strangling her to death, if you know what i mean
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Postby pwhodges » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:17 pm

Difficult for her with her arms falling off, though.
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Postby VUX » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:47 pm

I meant before she becomes a giant, in Legacy
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Postby Ray » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:37 am

Part of the reason I stopped writing my 3.33 fanfic was because I felt I was turning Shinji into in my words 'one of the columbine shooters'. I didn't want to go there. Making him do genuinely terrible things was a line I didn't want to cross. But I didn't see any logical progression of my story that didn't end with that. So I took a break to try and sort that out, and I still can't seem to do that.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:58 am

View Original PostRay wrote:Part of the reason I stopped writing my 3.33 fanfic was because I felt I was turning Shinji into in my words 'one of the columbine shooters'. I didn't want to go there. Making him do genuinely terrible things was a line I didn't want to cross. But I didn't see any logical progression of my story that didn't end with that. So I took a break to try and sort that out, and I still can't seem to do that.


I think that was a good choice to not go there, because it just doesn't fit Shinji's character in 3.33 and the two character I see doing stuff like are Mari and Asuka because they are soldiers to the cause and Asuka in End Of Evangelion had no issue taking out the Japanese army hinting that she would go to the darkest places if it meant protecting Nerv.
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Postby MarqFJA87 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:45 am

So Shinji killing off all of humanity just because he couldn't stand living anymore doesn't count? Sure, he technically "reversed" that, but he still pulled the trigger when offered the choice... and his "reversal" only gave humans the chance to re-corporalize, not guarantee it. It all depends on whether each individual has the willpower to reject the perfection of the illusionary world they're put in.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:29 am

View Original PostMarqFJA87 wrote:So Shinji killing off all of humanity just because he couldn't stand living anymore doesn't count? Sure, he technically "reversed" that, but he still pulled the trigger when offered the choice... and his "reversal" only gave humans the chance to re-corporalize, not guarantee it. It all depends on whether each individual has the willpower to reject the perfection of the illusionary world they're put in.


Fair point but I didn't feel that human instrumentality was cold blooded killing where the victim felt any pain before death, I was referring more to the idea of Shinji torturing people or shooting them in the head and how he reacts to killing Kaworu is heart breaking in the series and I think a lot of people forget that he would have seen his bloody remains as the clean up crew would have had to ask him to open unit 01's hand so they could get those crushed remains out.
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Postby Gob Hobblin » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:02 am

It's also being discussed on an open-thread that there was no indication Shinji was aware that his desires would actually be acted on in Instrumentality. There's a gulf of difference between a depressed and traumatized teenager saying they want everyone to die, and someone actually and intentionally carrying out the action.
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Postby MarqFJA87 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:06 pm

You are also forgetting the fact that in the beginning of Episode 19, that same boy explicitly threatened to destroy Nerv HQ with the remaining battery power in his Eva in the standoff between him and the Nerv staff (more specifically, his father), all over the near-death experience (or actual death in the manga) of his friend Touji. Unless you really believe that he was bluffing (which I doubt; Gendou's response to said threat was to knock the kid out in a matter of seconds via rapidly over-pressurizing the entry plug), this is definitive proof that Shinji is quite capable of being murderous if he's sufficiently enraged (even if it's pretty much guaranteed that he'd go into a guilt-driven despair after coming down from such rage after actually succeeding in committing murder/torture). All you need to turn him into a cold-blooded torturer and/or mass-murderer is to put him through such mental/emotional trauma that he willingly abandons any sense of morality or squeamishness that could get in the way. It's not like fictionland hasn't seen characters with similar personalities to his become broken by sufficiently horrible experiences into extremely dark, sometimes even evil people who have no compunctions against performing acts that their past selves would've balked at.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:52 pm

^ Well said. In the anime we was smashing the pyramid, and the manga, he actuality broke Unit-01 from its restraints after being recovered, and Shinji attacked his father, and if Kaji hadn't stopped him, he would have hit him, or perhaps beat him. But it does show Shinji is more than capable of extreme violence when provoked, like most people.

So Shinji, given the right motivation, is capable of shooting his father and killing him.
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Postby VUX » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:58 pm

But does Shinji have the balls to kill Rei or Misato if he has to?
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Postby C.T.1290 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:09 pm

View Original PostVUX wrote:But does Shinji have the balls to kill Rei or Misato if he has to?

That depends on how provoked he is. He did strangle Asuka in the pre-instrumentality sequence when she coldly rejected him.

I like seeing Shinji getting his revenge, starting with his father, and then everyone else.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:29 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:That depends on how provoked he is. He did strangle Asuka in the pre-instrumentality sequence when she coldly rejected him.

I like seeing Shinji getting his revenge, starting with his father, and then everyone else.

So that begs the question, who would he spare?
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Postby C.T.1290 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:38 pm

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:So that begs the question, who would he spare?

No one.

Except maybe Rei.
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Postby Stillborn » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:13 am

View Original PostMarqFJA87 wrote:You are also forgetting the fact that in the beginning of Episode 19, that same boy explicitly threatened to destroy Nerv HQ with the remaining battery power in his Eva in the standoff between him and the Nerv staff (more specifically, his father), all over the near-death experience (or actual death in the manga) of his friend Touji. Unless you really believe that he was bluffing (which I doubt; Gendou's response to said threat was to knock the kid out in a matter of seconds via rapidly over-pressurizing the entry plug), this is definitive proof that Shinji is quite capable of being murderous if he's sufficiently enraged (even if it's pretty much guaranteed that he'd go into a guilt-driven despair after coming down from such rage after actually succeeding in committing murder/torture). All you need to turn him into a cold-blooded torturer and/or mass-murderer is to put him through such mental/emotional trauma that he willingly abandons any sense of morality or squeamishness that could get in the way. It's not like fictionland hasn't seen characters with similar personalities to his become broken by sufficiently horrible experiences into extremely dark, sometimes even evil people who have no compunctions against performing acts that their past selves would've balked at.


Also he was choking Asuka in instrumentality. Unlike pulling a trigger, chocking is very personal and takes a while. You need to will it to squeeze life out of someone in comparision to just shooting them in a split second of anger or even stabbing them. To kill them with literally your own hands, requires quite a dedication to the task.

EDIT: Oh. Ninjaed.
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Postby pwhodges » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:34 am

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:So Shinji, given the right motivation, is capable of shooting his father and killing him.

I think that in most people there is a clear and strong line between the capability of even extreme violence and deliberate targetted killing. I would say that although we have seen Shinji provoked to the point of the first, there is no proof of his capability of crossing the line to the second.

That doesn't rule out the possibility of fantasising about it (as in strangling Asuka) as an element of self-examination.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:47 am

View Original PostMarqFJA87 wrote:You are also forgetting the fact that in the beginning of Episode 19, that same boy explicitly threatened to destroy Nerv HQ with the remaining battery power in his Eva in the standoff between him and the Nerv staff (more specifically, his father), all over the near-death experience (or actual death in the manga) of his friend Touji. Unless you really believe that he was bluffing (which I doubt; Gendou's response to said threat was to knock the kid out in a matter of seconds via rapidly over-pressurizing the entry plug), this is definitive proof that Shinji is quite capable of being murderous if he's sufficiently enraged (even if it's pretty much guaranteed that he'd go into a guilt-driven despair after coming down from such rage after actually succeeding in committing murder/torture). All you need to turn him into a cold-blooded torturer and/or mass-murderer is to put him through such mental/emotional trauma that he willingly abandons any sense of morality or squeamishness that could get in the way. It's not like fictionland hasn't seen characters with similar personalities to his become broken by sufficiently horrible experiences into extremely dark, sometimes even evil people who have no compunctions against performing acts that their past selves would've balked at.


Rei was referring though to rebuild Shinji in his fanfiction post not EOE Shinji or manga Shinji and I was saying that, that Shinji would not kill people because he's not in as bad a place emotionally as the series/movie or manga version.
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Postby VUX » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:55 am

Can Shinji best be described as a selfish coward?
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Postby pwhodges » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:58 am

He has elements of both of those characteristics; but by contrast, we are also shown his bravery and determination. Most people are too complicated to be summarised in so few words - and it is one of the good features of this show that the characters are not simplified but show the complexity of real life.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
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