How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby pwhodges » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:53 am

Soujiro's situation and reaction are both pretty far from Shinji's, I'd say - but given that fan fiction is based on varying the original story, I guess you could do something with it. I don't think myself that it would illuminate the actual character of Shinji very much.
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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Lennik » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:18 pm

I actually think this is somewhat plausible. Not the "taking pleasure in it" part, because Shinji's not a sadomasochist, and if he really hates himself, he's not going to allow himself to take pleasure in anything. But I certainly see him being intentionally reckless. Everyone has a breaking point, and for someone like NTE Shinji, I can certainly see that breaking point being a place where he starts being snarky and stops caring about the consequences, not because he wants to be a jerk, but because he's incredibly stressed and emotional and burnt out at the same time and just doesn't care anymore.

One alternate idea I thought of would be Shinji taking Misato's "From now on you do nothing" line to its extreme conclusion, to the point where he wouldn't do anything but brood in his room all day, every day, and only leave to eat in the cafeteria/mess hall/what-have-you after everyone is already asleep. But I have to imagine that the human body doesn't work that way. I think he would be compelled to maintain basic functioning and walk around and interact with the world, even if he speaks very little (because he can't face anybody or himself) and doesn't expect any forgiveness or third chances, because the body and mind will make him run on automatic just to keep themselves alive. Shinji is resilient. I don't think it's in character for him to act catatonic for very long. He'll still walk and talk and eat, even if he's completely miserable, because even if he hates himself, sitting in a ball and crying only lasts so long before his tears dry up and he hardens a little bit.

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby MisterHalt » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:28 pm

Shinji at this point would eat, sleep, etc. to keep himself going, but I reckon that he'd otherwise follow the order from Misato to 'do nothing'. He doesn't deserve happiness, but neither is he going to starve and wallow in his own filth. No reading, no social interaction (at least not initiating any, he'd still respond to other people), no fun allowed. He won't sit and cry, simply because it won't do anything for him anymore.

During any conversation, I think Shinji would be quiet, short and blunt in his responses. He may snark a bit, but won't really attempt humour at all unless it's self-deprecating. He may also occasionally try to incite anger in whoever's talking to him through sheer stubbornness, just to get them to react to him the way he 'deserves'.
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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby jcmoorehead » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:18 am

View Original PostMisterHalt wrote:During any conversation, I think Shinji would be quiet, short and blunt in his responses. He may snark a bit, but won't really attempt humour at all unless it's self-deprecating. He may also occasionally try to incite anger in whoever's talking to him through sheer stubbornness, just to get them to react to him the way he 'deserves'.


I like that idea, it's sort of a take on how he acted towards Misato after the battle with Shamshel, slightly different motives but just this complete apathy and not caring that he displayed then turned up a few notches.

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:26 am

View Original Postjcmoorehead wrote:I like that idea, it's sort of a take on how he acted towards Misato after the battle with Shamshel, slightly different motives but just this complete apathy and not caring that he displayed then turned up a few notches.


That seems plausible to me.
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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Stillborn » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:33 am

That... Sounds very likely. I remember that mocking smile Shinji had when Misato rised hand to slap him. It was like he was saying "Go on. Do it. You're all the same".
This time, filled with self hate, it would be along the lines of "I can't self terminate, so I'll provoke others until someone does it for me".
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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby jcmoorehead » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:38 am

View Original PostStillborn wrote:That... Sounds very likely. I remember that mocking smile Shinji had when Misato rised hand to slap him. It was like he was saying "Go on. Do it. You're all the same".
This time, filled with self hate, it would be along the lines of "I can't self terminate, so I'll provoke others until someone does it for me".


It also kinda plays into the whole hedgehogs dilemma thing he has running throughout them. He not only feels like he deserves to be hurt but he also feels like he doesn't deserve any sympathy from people so he is pushing them away by acting in that fashion. In reality he doesn't really want to be hurt and he'd probably love nothing more than a hug but his first instinct is to push them away because the side that says "No you don't deserve this" is much stronger.

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:51 am

Did this thread really need to take such a depressing turn?
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Postby Stillborn » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:11 am

It's about Shinji's future, so yes :tongue:
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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby jcmoorehead » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:31 pm

View Original PostArcadia's legacy wrote:Did this thread really need to take such a depressing turn?


It has got pretty grim hasn't it?

I mean personally I think that things will eventually get better for Shinji, one of the big messages I get from Eva is that no matter how bleak it may seem there is always the chance for hope. For me if I was going to run with the idea above where Shinji does literally do nothing and just tries to push people away it will happen for a while until finally something will snap causing him to realize he can't carry on in this way. Change does occur, slowly but it does and he starts to realize his worth.

I for one don't believe Shinji's future is hopeless, I think there is always hope.

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Postby Stillborn » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:55 pm

Hope is useless if nothing comes out of it. In all the movies Shinji had hope for something and everything he hoped for went to hell. In the end he can have hope all he want and still get a stray bullet like in Kadmon's fic.
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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:18 pm

View Original PostStillborn wrote:In all the movies Shinji had hope for something and everything he hoped for went to hell.

Except EoE and presumably Final
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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby xanderkh » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:32 pm

View Original PostStillborn wrote:Hope is useless if nothing comes out of it.



That's why HOPE exists in the first place Stillborn, because not all happiness in life is guaranteed. Hope exists to allow us to see the light at the end of the tunnel when things go bad, so a better day can exist tomorrow.

It's better than him just wallowing in self-pity for the rest of his days. The strength of a person is measured not by how many times they don't fail, but how many times they get up after they've fallen.

What would you rather have him do? Leave?
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
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Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Lennik » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:29 pm

View Original PostArcadia's legacy wrote:Did this thread really need to take such a depressing turn?


Well we're talking about Shinji's attitude, so yes. It's not true to say that everything is hopeless for him or that everyone would be better off without him, but after what he's been through lately, it's completely believable that he would think both of those things.

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Stillborn » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:05 pm

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:What would you rather have him do? Leave?


Why not? It's not like anyone want him around. But they can't blatantly kill him or Anno couldn't believably sell them off as heroes. Instead they will keep him under constant surveilance like an venomous exotic pet.
Shinji on his side, with the theme of earning forgivness from people who scorned him, will be acting like an unpopular kid, bending over backwards trying to be allowed into inner circle of cool kids that look down on him.

He should just accept that his supposed family and friends don't likes him anymore and start over somwhere else. They are perfectly capable of life without him. He should learn the same.
Because this is how hope works for Shinji. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEtuLzUbtpI
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Postby xanderkh » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:12 pm

^

I bet you think it would've been better if Shinji never met Misato or Asuka or anyone at Nerv at all, considering all he does is just make the world suffer around him because he's, you know, Shinji, right? :irked:
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Stillborn » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:23 pm

Actually? Yes. It passed my mind. He could live his uneventful life, until he may have settled with someone and had a moderetely satysfying existence.
NERV would have found some cliche hero to save the world, and maybe Gendo wouldn't be able to manipulate that person (since you know, they wouldn't be Shinji) and everything would turn out for better. The end.
But that wouldn't be satysfying right? Shinji is best for you when he suffers trauma both mental and physical and both of them are always justified and deserved.
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Postby xanderkh » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:54 pm

Apparently you're more butt-hurt about these issues than I thought, because who the hell told you that Shinji's suffering is "justified"?

Do you think Bruce Wayne's suffering was justified when his parents were killed? Do you think Korra's suffering was justified when she was paralyzed with Mercury?

It's storytelling 101 to create conflict in order for the hero to overcome, and heroes make mistakes too you know. The mark that makes a hero though is that they still keep trying even if they made a mistake. Bruce Wayne isn't exempt from this, Korra isn't, and many others. It makes them human.

But what the heck am I talking to you for? You'd probably find a way to justify that Shinji would screw up even a "normal" life because it's Shinji. Nothing ever seems to please you about the kid.
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:12 pm

View Original PostStillborn wrote:But that wouldn't be satysfying right? Shinji is best for you when he suffers trauma both mental and physical and both of them are always justified and deserved.


Stillborn, stop pulling shit from your ass. It's smelly and it makes a mess.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Stillborn » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:16 am

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:Apparently you're more butt-hurt about these issues than I thought, because who the hell told you that Shinji's suffering is "justified"?

Do you think Bruce Wayne's suffering was justified when his parents were killed? Do you think Korra's suffering was justified when she was paralyzed with Mercury?

It's storytelling 101 to create conflict in order for the hero to overcome, and heroes make mistakes too you know. The mark that makes a hero though is that they still keep trying even if they made a mistake. Bruce Wayne isn't exempt from this, Korra isn't, and many others. It makes them human.

But what the heck am I talking to you for? You'd probably find a way to justify that Shinji would screw up even a "normal" life because it's Shinji. Nothing ever seems to please you about the kid.


Key differences: 1)Shinji isn't a hero. He's a protagonist. 2)Shinji doesn't overcome struggles. He is breaken by them to fit certain mold.

Shinji isn't Bruce Wayne. He is Theon Greyjoy. When shit happens to him, he won't strenghen himself to fight it back. He will curl and cry. And after everything is said and done, he is left feeling worthles, whose only purpose is to use his life for others sake.

Yeah. Conflict introduced, changed Shinji. It made him accept himself as less than human. Bravo.
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