How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby BobTheXenomorph » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:58 pm

View Original Postoutsane_geek wrote:It's not like he was guaranteed a happy ending popping out of the goo; he was just given the chance for one.


Agreed. Even Farmer!Shinji is better than being assassinated, etc. It's not a gloriously happy ending, but it's one I kinda think fits the post-EoE universe. Misato and everyone else, aside from Rei, Gendo, Fuyu, and Ritsuko; is alive and well. And Shinji, even though he may be bitter about it, can grudgingly accept it if that's what it takes.

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Postby MisterHalt » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:24 pm

Okay, so Shinji is away from the rest of society due to public opinion or whatever. What do his friends think about it? Toji and Kensuke would have tried to stick up for him, Misato would probably be upset that her "son" is stuck like that, and Asuka... well who bloody knows with her. Might have moved on, might still be stuck pretending to hate him.
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Postby Ray » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:31 pm

Keep in mind my fic is about a jaded person who's isolated himself from society eventually coming around to feeling emotions and connecting with people again.

What I'm trying to avoid in my fic is. . .as kendrix put it. A 'Purely symbolic victory'.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:45 pm

Ray: I think you're on to something with your fic idea, but I also think others are talking about something else (and largely missing the point of the exercise in the process). Best we don't cross the streams here, lest we be talking at cross purposes.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:24 am

View Original Postoutsane_geek wrote:It's not like he was guaranteed a happy ending popping out of the goo; he was just given the chance for one.

Not even that, since the government sized him the moment they came back and put him on house arrest for life isolated from the rest of the world.
In the end he's pretty much in the same situation than when he started the series, except that instead of being in his head, the walls separating him from others are now physical.
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Postby Stillborn » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:33 am

I would once again like to compare it with Game of Thrones.

Eva is deconstruction of Big Robots genere, while GoT is deconstruction of fantasy genere. Both show how it would utterly suck if they were closer to realism.

It shows that the good or semi good people will die - in EoE we have Kaji, Misato etc. in GoT we have half of the Starks - or they will become bitter and unaproachive by hardships - WILLE in Rebuild, Arya in GoT - or become "corrupted" by their understanding of "good" - Misato in Rebuild is pretty much identical to Daenerys in GoT.

What those two different generes have in common them? Both show, that humanity SUCKS.

So I believe it would be perfectly believeable and in character, if Shinji was either imprisioned by government for whatever reasons or he decided he have enough of this bullshit and went on a self exile.

He may not go completly Robinson Crusoe level of alone, but he would limit his contacts to necessity. Speak with the guy in grocery or tool shop, give obligatory "Hello" to a neighbour, but not much above this. Because everything that happened despite Anno throwing cliche speeches through Yui's mouth (Yui who was abandoning the sinking ship while leaving her son on it mind you), may pretty much confirm Shinji's belief that people are ultimately not worth the effort. So even if he doesn't kill himself, he may decide to fuck this and live without having additional troubles of dealing with others.

I think that would actually be perfectly in character AND fitting in evaverse which have rather shitty population.
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Postby Dream » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:12 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Not even that, since the government sized him the moment they came back and put him on house arrest for life isolated from the rest of the world.
In the end he's pretty much in the same situation than when he started the series, except that instead of being in his head, the walls separating him from others are now physical.


Permanent house arrest seems like a pretty weird retribution for the kid who gave mankind a chance of redemption.

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Postby BobTheXenomorph » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:22 pm

View Original PostDream wrote:Permanent house arrest seems like a pretty weird retribution for the kid who gave mankind a chance of redemption.


Yeah, but he also nearly ended it. So, while there's a lot of people who want to thank him for giving them a chance, there's also just as many who are terrified of him and/or outright hate him.

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Postby xanderkh » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:20 am

^

That's just like real life, there's always going to people who fit into all three of those categories no matter WHAT you do in life, even if you try to do better.

But, I'm betting that after humanity had that whole "world-merging therapy trip" into each other's minds and realizing just how lonely we really are, I'm betting that they'll choose the harder, but worthwhile option to give Shinji another chance, cause we all know he never wanted to really destroy the world. Maybe some people won't forgive him, that's a fact, but there are just as many as those who will and those who can learn to forgive him. Humanity isn't cold, heartless, or always capable of holding grudges just for the sake of it.
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
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Postby NemZ » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:40 am

I'd be interested in reading more, Ray. Just throwing that out there. ^_^
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Postby Ray » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:03 am

Working on that right now. Literally, I have wordDoc open.

I just have a really hard time writing depressing things w/o becoming depressed myself.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:09 am

View Original PostRay wrote:Working on that right now. Literally, I have wordDoc open.

I just have a really hard time writing depressing things w/o becoming depressed myself.


Take your time, man. And take care of yourself -- no fic is worth wrecking yourself.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Bhorium » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:56 pm

I don't believe in the notion that everyone in the world would recognize Shinji after Instrumentality. I like to think that the effects of Instrumentality are much more subtle than that; that if anything, there would occasionally be someone seeing Shinji and being left with that feeling of seeing someone who might look a bit familiar in a crowd, yet being unable to place a name on that someone.

Shinji's post-EoE situation should represent a chance to begin again and carve a path of his own, free from the constrains of the forces who has controlled the course of his life since his birth.
Sorry, I was soliloquising again. Filthy habit.

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Postby Ray » Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:32 pm

Since people asked me about it and said they'd be interested in seeing more, and having nowhere else to put it as of yet. . . Here's more.

Undisclosed Location:

SPOILER: Show
The droning of an buzzer awoke the boy from a restless sleep to the same ceiling. He sighed as he sat up off the padded floor, he peeled off the thin blanket.

Time was still a blur to him, but he was beginning to perceive differences in the world around him. He could've been here a few weeks, or several years and it wouldn't have made a difference. He was still detached, but since he had first awoken in this new cell, he had slipped into a routine. He woke up, they slipped breakfast through a slot next to the door. That was morning. A while later a woman in white came in with a wheelchair to take him to his medical examination where a man in a white coat would try to talk to him, that was noon. They fed him his dinner there, let him use the toilet, give him a bath, and then returned him to his cell where he went back to sleep. That was night.
The cell itself was relatively small, white and padded on all four walls and the floor. Well lit by a single incredibly bright ceiling lamp, sterile, and bleach white. It wasn't anything like the previous hospital rooms he had woken up in.

It wasn't a hospital, it was a madhouse and he realized it.

But at least it was an improvement over his previous accomodations, still a prison, but a much gentler prison. He wasn't in chains, or an embarassing hospital gown although his new blue patient uniform wasn't much of an improvement, he didn't have a detonator around his neck. . . .
He panicked again the second the thought crossed his mind. Quickly reaching for his neck expecting it to be there. He exhaled in relief after realizing it was gone again, and then again in sadness.

The people here weren't cruel. . . at least they fed him. Well. . . what passed for food in this place.

As if to make a point, out of a vent next to the door slid a covered plastic tray.
He stood up and slowly walked over to the plastic tray, barely noticing it. Carefully taking the top off. It was garlic rice with carrots, a small piece of cake, a cup of orange juice, and a rubber spoon. No forks or knives. In addition to the food there was also a tiny cup with two bright blue pills next to the food. With a message on his napkin in Japanese.

"Take one before, and one after you eat."

Someone had drawn a smile on the memo. He would have cried at the gesture if he hadn't cried out all his tears long ago. Instead he sighed and carried the tray back to the center of his cell. He took one of the pills, and ate in silence. Unaware he was being watched through a camera in the upper corner of the room.
- - -
"Are you a relative?"
"Not by blood, and I haven't seen him in over a decade. But under the circumstances. . .I'm the closest thing to one he has. I trust the proper authorities graced you with the truth about our. . . shall we say delicate situation?"
The doctor persused the patients file for a moment, and majority of the information in it was blotted out, even the patients name.
"Just the broad strokes, not the fine details. Which isn't helping us make any progress in treating him . . . but cases like him aren't uncommon at our facility."
"What exactly is wrong with him?"
"My best diagnosis is Catatonic Schizophrenia brought on by extreme and chronic physical and emotional abuse. He's mentally regressed to a borderline infant mentality as a defense mechanism to cope with his trauma."
"May I please see him now?"
"I don't think that would be such a good idea sir. Patients with problems this deep"
"I traveled all the way from Berlin for him. I'm not leaving until I can see him."
"Please."
The doctor sighed "I recommend waiting for the anti-psychotics to work. We'll arrange to have him brought outside to the garden. I figured we'd try a different tactic today. . . I've learned an open air environment does wonders for our patients."
"Word of advice, sir." "Don't try to push him too much too quickly. Otherwise it could set back what little progress we've made with him indefinitely."
- - -

He finished eating and then took the other pill without complaint. When he finished, the buzzer on the door rang and it opened, in came a nurse with a wheelchair for him to sit in. She said 'something special' was going to happen to him today. He didn't pay attention to it. She lifted him up from his spot on the floor, and slowly led him out of the room step by step, before sitting him down in the wheelchair. She wheeled him down the hall, past several other rooms, noises came out of them, other patients crying and moaning in pain. The nurse hummed a song in another language under her breath as she wheeled him down the tiled passageway. He saw a glimmer of a pond next to a meadow of flowers outside of a window as he passed.

The nurse pushed him out of a dim passageway and into a brightly lit outside world. The nurse wheeled him into the meadow, under the shade of a tree and stopped. She said something attempting to be calm and soothing, and then left him there for a minute. He inhaled deeply through his nose for a moment, the sweet smell of the flowers was a welcome change from the sterility of the room. But it was a small victory, a small victory in a string of failures too great to overcome.

"It's been a long time eh Shin-chan?" The boys didn't react to ignore the voice of the man in the shade of the tree. He sighed in "There's a lot of things in this life that don't change, but I never thought you'd be one of them. You haven't aged a day."

"But me?" The older man touched his own face as he walked out of the shade of the tree. Shinjis eyes widened in suprise as he walked out of the shade of the trees. "I've got a lot of miles."
It was Ryoji Kaji. He had a few wrinkles, but he wasn't an old man just yet. His once thin beard was now full, and had specks of grey in it. He wore a plain black suit with a tie, and a pair of dark glasses.

The young boy turned his head away. He tightly clenched his eyes shut, tightened his mouth into a thin line, preparing for the insults, the accusing looks, the coldness and hatred.

Kaji walked over to the boy in the wheelchair, he squatted down next to him. trying to meet him eye to eye despite his glasses coming between the two.

"Shinji." Kaji said, a soft understanding in his voice. "I'm not going to hurt you, alright?"
The boy began to fidget and quiver in anxiety, he turned away from Kaji in his wheelchair."Go away." He said, barely putting any effort into his voice as he did. "Please, just stay away. . . "
Kaji turned away for a moment and removed his glasses. His eyes were familiar, but now they were tired, carrying their own sadness inside them. ". . .I can't do that Shin."
"No more. Please. . . no more." He kept his head down, trying his best to avoid eye contact with Kaji. Kaji, carefully, slowly reached over to the boy and lifted his head up with both his hands, finally making eye contact with him.

". . .Kaji?"

"It's me Shinji. . . I'm here."

It was here the boy finally broke down. He grabbed Kaji with both hands and quickly hugged him, catching the older man off guard. Clutching his shoulders tightly as if afraid he'd fall apart in front of him. He began to cry and sputter again.

"I'm sorry. I'm sorry. . .I couldn't save Rei. . ." He moaned in self-loathing as the tears began to roll down his face. ". . .I couldn't save anyone. . ."

Kaji slowly reached up and hugged in return. "I'm sorry too kid. . ."

". . .sorry wont bring them back. . .Thousands dead. . .all . . .me." He gripped Kaji tighter. Tears still trickling down the side of his face. He sobbed again before he lett go of Kaji and slumped in the chair, sadness overwhelming him again.

"All me."
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby Cosmo11 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:17 am

That was depressing, especially the reunion with Kaji. Keep up the good work.

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Ray » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:05 pm

Necroposting. Sorry not sorry.

Would Shinji learn to ENJOY being hurt? Or God forbid, find some sick pleasure in it?

Yes. I'm going there.

There's this scene I'm writing in my Fic where Shinji is being Manhandled by Asuka or Sakura for crossing a line (cause he's a bitter callous bastard at this point) much to her surprise, he doesn't shrink away, he remains passive. With a sick smile on his face like he's anticipating getting hurt by her.

The idea is (whether it's true or not) Shinji KNOWS deep down, in his heart he's irredeemable. He KNOWS he's the lowest of low, he KNOWS he's done such big irreversible wrongs that there isn't any way anyone will see him as a human being again. He knows he has nothing to look forward to but more pain and rejection from others. . . So why not learn to love that pain?

According to Shinji's broken mind. Being in pain means he's being punished, being punished means he's atoning even a little bit for all that he's done. So he doesn't mind it when members of the Wunder Crew call him "Impact Boy", he doesn't mind when Sakura or Asuka manhandle him for speaking out of line. . .

Because he KNOWS deep down he deserves it, and it's only because they need him that he's not suffering even more.

Obviously, I'm not going to let him be stuck in that mindset forever. I'm just wondering if that might be taking Shinjis self loathing a bit too far.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby MisterHalt » Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:20 pm

While I don't think even Shinji would love pain, I certainly think he would welcome it with open arms, so to speak. Since he doesn't even have the courage to kill himself (there's a scene early on in the series where he just sits on the wrong side of a barrier at a spot known for suicides), he would simply let things happen to him. But he would still think about it, before remembering that he's too cowardly to, say, steal a soldier's gun and put it against his own head.

If a disgruntled WILLE soldier decided to take out his frustrations on the boy, Shinji would probably just stand there and take it, perhaps even getting back up if knocked down purely to facilitate his own assault.

Shinji screwed up. That's what he believes, and any physical harm caused to him is just a small fraction of the punishment he 'rightfully' deserves.

Great, now I need to go write some WAFF to wash this thought out of my head.
Strength is being able to crush a tomato. Dexterity is being able to dodge a tomato. Constitution is being able to eat a bad tomato. Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put a tomato in a fruit salad. Charisma is being able to sell a tomato based fruit salad.

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Stillborn » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:44 pm

Actually, that sounds pretty plausible in that setting.
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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Ray » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:41 pm

. . . Great, now I need to go write some WAFF to wash this thought out of my head.


Sorry. . . I didn't mean it like that. .


The thought came to me when I recently reread some of my old Rurouni Kenshin books and I found myself compelled by this one particular scene. Where we see the origin story of Shishio's sidekick, Seta Soujiro. Soujiro had a pretty abusive childhood, when his parents died he was was sent to live with his extended family who saw him as a burdern . . . and he was beaten repeatedly just for existing.

He learned to compensate for this by learning to take joy in pain. To smile whenever he was being hurt, to the point where it became involuntary. When Shishio meets him for the first time, and tries to kill him to eliminate witnesses, even he's shocked that the boy is smiling rather than terrified.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Re: How To Characterize Shinji As An Adult?

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:48 pm

It wouldn't work, I think, because if your going with trying to explore Shinji within context of the movies...there's a wide gulf between feeling you deserve pain, and enjoying it. Shinji certainly would feel he deserves to be punished, but it's not because it would give him pleasure: he has hit the low that he thinks he is rotten enough that the only thing left is for him to be punished. That's a very human reaction.

A person enjoying suffering can be a human reaction under certain circumstances, but what you want to convey and you what you are describing are intrinsically at war with one another. If he felt he needed to be punished, he wouldn't seek out something that would make him smile, or that he knew he would enjoy at a certain level. He might feel better after being punished, but that's because it would be an emotional release of what he's feeling, and validation of his feelings. What you're describing sounds more like a sexual thrill, and that is a...whole separate can of worms.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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