Puella Magi Madoka Magika [3]

Non-Eva Anime and Manga discussion

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

Mr. Tines
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 61
Posts: 20175
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
Location: This sceptered isle.
Gender: Male
Contact:

Puella Magi Madoka Magika [3]

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:36 am

Continued from

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:^That's a pretty good speculah, here's my response:

SPOILER: Show

-Not sure whether the Incubators are still around. We only see one in the ending, and it's pretty clear that Homura is going to be keeping any surviving ones on a tight leash because she knows what they're capable of.

-I agree that the Law of Cycles still exists. Madoka seems at least partially still connected to it. Sayaka was connected to it but Homura somehow broke that connection when they were talking (the part when Sayaka tries to summon Oktavia, but Homura cancels the summon), and Sayaka notes that she felt like she was part of something outside of the universe, but can no longer recall that feeling.

-Whether the birds and familiars are under an illusion is ambiguous. They could very well be under an illusion (similar to how their forms were concealed in Homura's witch barrier). There is some sort of trickery going on around them, though; this is demonstrated when Kyoko throws the children an apple but Homura seems to signal them not to take it and they all mysteriously vanish, which visibly startles Kyoko.

-I'm not sure if what the Incubators have is considered technology. Certainly the weird Kyuubey-barrier seen during Kyubey's big info-dump to Homura looks very artificial, but at other times they seem to somehow accomplish impossible feats (such as making Madoka a goddess). Either way Homura probably eclipses the limit of their tech (or magic), or they'd have done away with her already.

-The Clara Dolls could be interesting enemies. It depends how they're used, really. They seem pretty generic in Rebellion, but they each symbolize a different negative emotion/attribute so that could be used to distinguish them.

-The wraiths are probably gone, we don't see any sign of their presence at all.

-My speculation on the plot of the season is that it's either going to be Sayaka trying to awaken the other magical girls and Madoka before her memories vanish entirely (if they haven't already) or the other girls trying to awaken Madoka so she can fight Akuma Homura. It's interesting that while they have their fingernail markings and rings, the runes on the rings have vanished- I'm not sure if that's meant to symbolize their magical powers being erased, or if the power is just being concealed. Hopefully the latter.
Reminder: Play nicely <<>> My vanity publishing:- NGE|blog|Photos|retro-blog|Fanfics|G+|MAL
Avatar: Ritsu-chan

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 6856
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:28 am

Wow, third thread! :jawdrop:

@ Shinoyami65 :
SPOILER: Show
- The Incubators are definitively still around, Homura explicitly said that they'll be needed in her new system and that she'll make them cooperate. Kyubey's horrible look in the stinger probably means that they're not just collector of energy anymore, and have to actively participate in the dealing with the Curses. That or Homura is just venting her frustration on them for the lulz(can't really blame her)

- I don't think the connection with the Law of Cycles was broken(Sayaka still could invoke Oktavia after the re-rewriting of the Universe) but simply a mind-wiping making them even forget that they have that connection in the first place, although she can directly suppress their power if needed too(Oktavia disappearing and the cooldown hug to Madokami)
The children asking for the apple are actually the Clara Dolls, that's why they could vanish when Homura signaled them to not take the apple. Kyouko was surprised because she heard the apple falling in the water, that's actually a call-back to episode 7 when she got mad at Sayaka for throwing away an apple, because she hates seeing food being wasted.
But yeah, since no one is seen complaining about the freakish appearance of the Claras, it seems that they can put themselves under an illusion, or at least are invisible to normal beings.

- The Incubators can't use magic because of their emotionless nature(that's why they contract humans to become MG), so what's left is technology. It's probably so advanced that it looks like magic, but it isn't, it's like the FAR technology in Evangelion : it looks like godly powers seeing all the insane things it can create(Angels, Impacts, ascended Rei/Lilith/Kaworu/ADAM) but in the end it's just extremely advanced technology.

- I like that idea of emotion-themed powers for the Claras, they are witch familiar after all, and familiar can create their own barrier. It would be a shame to not use these glorious paper mache mindfuck arenas anymore! :tongue:

- I didn't noticed the absent runes in the rings, weren't they also not shown in most of their appearance through the movie and the series because they were hard to draw? But if it's on purpose, it's probably a sign that their powers are concealed, their soul are supposed to be inside, so erasing that power means either being back as a normal person, or dead. But anyway Madoka is too closely monitored by Homura to be the instigator of the revolution, that leaves only the others one recovering their memories(or part of them) and starting their discreet resistance.

Even though I hope that we'll get an awesome Madokami vs Akuma Homura fight to blow the animation budget, I don't see the MG simply winning by beating the crap out of Homura, but rather by either finding a way to continue the Law of Cycles on "autopilot" without Madoka(which could be how it's already working now, but then why rebel against Homura? Her system would be good and everyone is happy, except Homura herself and the Incubators, but fuck them), make Homura finally let go and accept Madoka's sacrifice and to go in the afterlife(if she stills qualify) to assist Madoka, or maybe they will kick her ass, and wipe her memories so she could live an happy life until being reunited with her pink-haired waifu, that would be harsh, but sometime you have to do harsh and unpleasant things to help other people, that would tie with Junko's advice to Madoka on the matter(and in a sense that's what Homura did for Madoka in Rebellion), or "banishing" Homura to a long penitence in Earth by immortality until she atones for what she did, but that would be really dickish, for that to happen Homura will have to cross a sever moral horizon in season 2.(unless she does request to be left on Earth to continue to fight as a way to atone for what she did to Madoka, that would be very in character for her to do something like that)
Last edited by ElMariachi on Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Giji Shinka
Donor
Donor
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 2624
Joined: Jan 26, 2013
Location: Finland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Giji Shinka » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:48 pm

This was awesome rebellion thread: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/The_Rebellion_Story/Spoiler

It's been a while since I've had a headache, in a good way. :tongue:
Avatar: "Anime-lehti" logo

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 72
Posts: 10041
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:12 pm

Frankly, I'm not sure that improves matters...
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: "Suki da, Yano" - Bokura ga ita ep.21 (details); Past avatars.
Can't wait for 3.0+1.0? - try Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

caragnafog dog
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 1474
Joined: Feb 11, 2013
Location: Portsmouth, New Hampshire
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby caragnafog dog » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:23 pm

Calling Homura Lucifer really stirs up my teen angst. I'm no huge fan of Milton but it seems a hasty comparison.

Also
SPOILER: Show
the physics (is this the right word? I don't know) behind homulily are a bit odd to be sure but I've always just chalked it up to Homura being able to do whatever she wants inside her own soulgem.
On 11/10/14, at 8:43 PM, Merrimerri wrote:
fhycjubg beat tge sgut iyt if gun
On 6/2/15, at 10:14 PM, Delispin wrote:
> Wow. I've disgusted even myself.

https://qnuw.wordpress.com/ The hottest new meme, revived in blog form. qnuw/qnuw. qnuw/qnuw. qnuw/qnuw.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 6856
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:54 am

The "Lucifer" Western nickname comes from the parallel between Rebellion's plot and Paradise Lost
SPOILER: Show
in how Homura rejects "Paradise" (Madokami's Valhalla) and sabotage the system for her own ends, like Satan rejected God and sabotaged the Eden by making Adam and Eve eat the Fruit of Knowledge for his own ends.

Personally I think that all this calling herself a demon is just Homura manifesting her self-hatred, because for a demon having corroded a god, she created a fairly pleasant world for everyone.

As for Homulily, no need to sweat to find an explanation, Kyubey already gave it in all its details : MGs are still supposed to become Witches when their soul gem is completely corrupted, but Madokami then intervene and take away the soul and body to her Valhalla before that happens. But if somehow a soul gem is corrupted and Madokami can't intervene(like Homura's soul gem in the Interference-Isolation Field) then the soul gem becomes a grief seed and the MG becomes a witch. The reason she didn't evolved into a full Witch and her soul gem didn't become a grief seed was a combination of the Isolation Field keeping the soul gem in a stasis preventing it to corrupt further due to the passage of time, and Homura herself losing her memories of becoming a witch once inside her barrier, stopping further corruption due to her despair.

Madoka's wish didn't magically retconned the witches out of existence, it gave her the power to snatch the MG(soul and body) away to her MG paradise just before the Witch's birth.

The Incubator's plan wasn't that much structured, since they weren't even sure that Madokami or Witches really exists and that it's not just Homura who's simply crazy and delusional.
Rebellion was only the very first part of their plan, which basically boiled down to "isolate Homura's soul gem and see what happens" : if the soul gem shatter and disappear, then they drop the subject and continue with the Wraith system, if she transforms into a Witch, then that's the proof that something is indeed interfering with the MG, and if the famous "Law of Cycles" that Homura identified as a former human being called Madoka Kaname actually tries to intervene and is trapped by the Isolation Field, then all the better.

Once they confirmed that MGs are indeed supposed to become entities called Witches, that there is indeed an entity behind the "Law of Cycles" that intervene before that happens, and they assessed that the energy output from a Witch transformation is greater than with the Wraith system, they could use all the data collected during the "Homura experiment" to create a way to reach, interfere and ultimately control Madokami, stopping her from purifying the MGs, thus effectively bringing back the old Witch system.


Now as to HOW Homura managed to gain all this power, personally I have three theories :

1/ She applied Kyubey's plan for herself : she "observed" Madokami and then "interfered" with her, absorbing her powers to become her own version of a "god", this is supported by the shot of the pink and white yarn package(implied to be a representation of Madokami's powers) morphing into the Dark Orb that Homura swallows to become Akuma Homura.

2/ Homura actually has an enormous karmic destiny, similar to Madoka : her time loops made for the sole purpose of saving Madoka made the later have a potential of godly proportions, and since Homura is the one who do the time loops with the objective to save Madoka, she's connected to the new "center of the universe" and gained karmic destiny with each time loop as well, without realizing it because of her focus on Madoka and since she already made her wish. In the end of Rebellion she just realized it, and used Madokami's powers to awake her own latent potential.(that would imply that Akuma Homura is slightly less powerful than Madokami)
There are hints in the movie to support that theory : first the extreme complexity of Homura's barrier, which recreated Mitakihara with all its inhabitants, and the sheer size of Homulily, a giant bigger than an Eva, a size only Walpurgis and Kriemhild Gretchen could match and surpass.

3/ the power of love, taken to its extreme, is indeed so powerful that it could brought down a "god", it's just that all the MG where too occupied by trying to avoid their soul gem corrupting and despairing on all the consequences of contracting that Kyubey never told them about to think about absolute love.


It's also possible that it's a combination of the three : Homura has an enormous karmic destiny thanks to her time travels, used the Incubators plans to observe and interfere with Madokami to do it herself and use her powers to awake her own potential, using the power of love as a conduit.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

caragnafog dog
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 1474
Joined: Feb 11, 2013
Location: Portsmouth, New Hampshire
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby caragnafog dog » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:59 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:The "Lucifer" Western nickname comes from the parallel between Rebellion's plot and Paradise Lost
I knew that, that's why I mentioned Milton. It's been a while since I've read it but I usually associate PL with Satan's war against the angels of heaven, I had forgotten about the portion centered around Adam & Eve.
On 11/10/14, at 8:43 PM, Merrimerri wrote:
fhycjubg beat tge sgut iyt if gun
On 6/2/15, at 10:14 PM, Delispin wrote:
> Wow. I've disgusted even myself.

https://qnuw.wordpress.com/ The hottest new meme, revived in blog form. qnuw/qnuw. qnuw/qnuw. qnuw/qnuw.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 6856
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:09 am

^
Oh I noticed that you've read it don't worry, I was just pointing the part of PL which Rebellion could have a parallel with.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

caragnafog dog
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 1474
Joined: Feb 11, 2013
Location: Portsmouth, New Hampshire
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby caragnafog dog » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:24 am

That's a comprehensive explanation of homily though, thanks for that.
On 11/10/14, at 8:43 PM, Merrimerri wrote:
fhycjubg beat tge sgut iyt if gun
On 6/2/15, at 10:14 PM, Delispin wrote:
> Wow. I've disgusted even myself.

https://qnuw.wordpress.com/ The hottest new meme, revived in blog form. qnuw/qnuw. qnuw/qnuw. qnuw/qnuw.

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 22761
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Living in Houston, TX
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:03 pm

Um, about Rebellion Story, what's with the summary from MAL?

MAL wrote:The third and final movie in the Madoka trilogy. It serves as a sequel to the second movie. It is strictly to remain unconnected to the TV series, as stated by Urobuchi.


I'm waiting for a fansub BD rip before watching it, but I'm somewhat hesitant to watch Rebellion Story. Even if this film's story fits the series' overall themes and all that:
    1) The original film ending honestly sounded best.
    2) To be blunt, this sequel bait ending sounds just stupid, but like I mentioned before, franchise cash cows need milking.
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

caragnafog dog
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 1474
Joined: Feb 11, 2013
Location: Portsmouth, New Hampshire
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby caragnafog dog » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:13 pm

I dunno, that was my kneejerk reaction too, but it makes a lot of sense to me now.
On 11/10/14, at 8:43 PM, Merrimerri wrote:
fhycjubg beat tge sgut iyt if gun
On 6/2/15, at 10:14 PM, Delispin wrote:
> Wow. I've disgusted even myself.

https://qnuw.wordpress.com/ The hottest new meme, revived in blog form. qnuw/qnuw. qnuw/qnuw. qnuw/qnuw.

Giji Shinka
Donor
Donor
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 2624
Joined: Jan 26, 2013
Location: Finland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Giji Shinka » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:57 am

^^I would like to know the source of that statement.
Avatar: "Anime-lehti" logo

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 6856
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:26 am

Yeah I would like to see the source too, I never saw that anywhere else, and it doesn't make sense seeing the huge sequel bait the ending plays.

Also about that famous rumor that Urobutchi planned an happy ending but was forced to change it and part of the movie accordingly, that's not exactly what happened : during the early drafts and brainstorming phase Urobutchi wanted a conclusive ending of
SPOILER: Show
Madoka taking Homura to her Valhalla
, but Iwakami and Shinbo wanted an open-end to continue the story. But Urobutchi couldn't come with a script meeting this condition, when Shinbo suggested the twist of
SPOILER: Show
making Madoka and Homura as enemies.

And Urobutchi was actually thrilled by that idea! He even called it a breakthrough that gave him the inspiration to create the whole script.

Sure he had a different idea in mind at the very beginning of the project, but that's the course of every project, it's like in Rebuild 2.0 where Asuka was supposed to die against Bardiel in the very early drafts before being changed by her surviving, which changed the dynamic of Q.

Here you have an interview of Shinbo(Director) and Urobutchi from the movie pamphlet :
http://feral-phoenix.livejournal.com/685568.html
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Xard
Sex God Bastard
Sex God Bastard
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 14187
Joined: Jan 03, 2008
Location: Finland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Xard » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:02 pm

I think that statement comes back to Shinbo saying somewhere (I forget where but I saw pic of interview) that Rebellion is sequel to the first two films, not tv series.

So technically speaking tv series still forms full contiinum unto itself.


So there's two Madoka anime continuities:

TV series contiinum (TV series)

Film contiinum (Film 1 :arrow: Film 2 :arrow: Rebellion :arrow: ?)

In this sense it is unconnected.
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 72
Posts: 10041
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:12 pm

Though the main difference* between the series and the first two films appears to be a hairpin!

So Rebellion is the continuation of Beginnings and Eternal.

Shinbou: Yes, like that. For instance, in her magical girl form, Sayaka has no hairpin in the TV series, but she has one in the movies. And so, as a continuation of the previous two movies, Rebellion stars the Sayaka with the hairpin.

*as in: "the first difference to come to his mind"
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: "Suki da, Yano" - Bokura ga ita ep.21 (details); Past avatars.
Can't wait for 3.0+1.0? - try Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Paranoid
Israfel
Israfel
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 461
Joined: Mar 14, 2013
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Paranoid » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:31 pm

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:^^I would like to know the source of that statement.

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Yeah I would like to see the source too, I never saw that anywhere else, and it doesn't make sense seeing the huge sequel bait the ending plays.

pwhodges already posted part of the relevant quote, but here it is in its entirety:
You called the previous two movies “like a new loop or two of the original series”. With that in mind, how is this new movie positioned?

Shinbou: I think of the TV series as complete in and of itself, and that it doesn’t need a continuation. Beginnings and Eternal were necessary to Rebellion, and my personal interpretation is that Rebellion continues from these two movies rather than the TV series.

So Rebellion is the continuation of Beginnings and Eternal.

Shinbou: Yes, like that. For instance, in her magical girl form, Sayaka has no hairpin in the TV series, but she has one in the movies. And so, as a continuation of the previous two movies, Rebellion stars the Sayaka with the hairpin.

So yeah, Rebellion-haters can at least take comfort in the fact that the director considers it non-canon with regards to the original series, although to be perfectly honest I don't think that the community at large takes it that way. It's from the same interview that you yourself posted.
View Original PostXard wrote:...(I forget where but I saw pic of interview)...

It wasn't a pic, I sent you the quotes a while back.


View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Also about that famous rumor that Urobutchi planned an happy ending but was forced to change it and part of the movie accordingly, that's not exactly what happened

According to every interview I've read, including this one, that's actually exactly what happened. That it happened during early stages doesn't matter, the fact of that matter is that he had planned a good end and Shinbou and Iwakami went "nope".
Urobuchi: From the start, the idea was “Homura becomes a witch, and the story takes place inside her barrier”. But at the time, I wanted to end the story with Madoka taking Homura away with her. So, I thought the story would end this time for real (laughs). But both Iwakami-san and Shinbou-san were like, “No, we want the story to keep going after this” and wouldn’t give me the OK.

And regarding
View Original PostElMariachi wrote:And Urobutchi was actually thrilled by that idea! He even called it a breakthrough that gave him the inspiration to create the whole script.

While it doesn't sound like he objected too heavily (although with Japanese courtesy, who knows), I wouldn't go nearly as far as to say he was thrilled:
So then when I was getting really worried, Shinbou-san was like “Might as well just make Madoka and Homura into enemies”. And that suggestion was basically the breakthrough. I really agreed that Homura might be plausible as Madoka’s equal opposite.

He was worried because he didn't know what to write after Shinbou and Iwakami wouldn't okay the original ending, and the "breakthrough" was in relation to that, absolutely not the breakthrough that allowed him to write the story to begin with. And "agreed that it might be plausible" is a far cry from "thrilled". At least, that's my reading of the situation.
View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Sure he had a different idea in mind at the very beginning of the project, but that's the course of every project, it's like in Rebuild 2.0 where Asuka was supposed to die against Bardiel in the very early drafts before being changed by her surviving, which changed the dynamic of Q.

This wasn't the evolution of ideas, this was just Shinbou and Iwakami not letting Butcher write the script he wanted to. Very different situations.


What is surprising, is that very much unlike what Xard and I thought when we first saw the movie (separately), the ending was indeed written that way from the early stages:
So the plot came together based on the concept of Madoka and Homura becoming enemies.

Urobuchi: That’s right. Once I knew the direction I was working for, everything came together, so I wrote the screenplay after that. I wrote the first draft, and then came the revisions, and it ended up as it is now.

Both Xard and I felt that the ending was more or less 'tacked on' due to how disconnected it seems from the rest of the movie, but apparently this is not the case. Honestly, I'm still not sure what to make of it because no matter how I look at it and how many times I repeat the ending, it still seems like it was just added after the fact.
I sort of feel like if I had the opportunity to ask Butcher in person about how Homura was suddenly able to steal Madoka's power, he would just look me in the eyes and say
SPOILER: Show
AI YO, MOTHERFUCKER.
Last edited by Paranoid on Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:08 pm, edited 9 times in total.
I like food.
"May those who accept their fate be granted happiness. May those who defy their fate be granted glory."-Edel, Princess Tutu

Xard
Sex God Bastard
Sex God Bastard
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 14187
Joined: Jan 03, 2008
Location: Finland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Xard » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:34 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Though the main difference* between the series and the first two films appears to be a hairpin!


*as in: "the first difference to come to his mind"


Yeah, this is why the statement satisfies me less than it otherwise would... (speaking as someone who had rather mixed reaction to Rebellion)

Still, technically speaking, they're different continuities.

Of course technically speaking End of Evangelion was (at least initially in 90s, now it seems to be the set "Canon Ending"(tm) in general) sequel to Death & Rebirth, not tv series...
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 6856
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:23 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Though the main difference* between the series and the first two films appears to be a hairpin!


*as in: "the first difference to come to his mind"

The biggest difference I noticed was in the school rooftop : in the TV series and Blu-Ray it was a white structure with pipes, something that actually looks like a functional rooftop, while somehow the movies turned it into some sort of cathedral architecture!
SPOILER: Show
Image

Seriously, what the fuck?! :cringe:

And since I didn't saw the first two movies(since I saw the series the day before Rebellion), at first I thought that the girls were taking their meal in front of Kyouko's father church!
A shame because I really preferred the original series version, it kept the all white, clean, almost sterile and slightly unnatural and oppressive vibe of the rest of the city's architecture.(like an anime version of Welcome to Gattaca)

From what I saw, the main differences between the films and the series are Sayaka's hairpin, the school rooftop, the transformation sequence for the girls and a leitmotiv added for Charlotte...
So still, aesthetic asides, the two movies tell the exact same story than the TV/BR version, so I can't see how Rebellion can be a continuation of just these movies.

---
View Original PostParanoid wrote:Both Xard and I felt that the ending was more or less 'tacked on' due to how disconnected it seems from the rest of the movie, but apparently this is not the case. Honestly, I'm still not sure what to make of it because no matter how I look at it and how many times I repeat the ending, it still seems like it was just added after the fact.

Well, I admit that I don't like the "abstract apotheosis" kind of ending and really though that in the end Homura completely failed and that Madoka's fate was kind of unfair(even if she chose it), so the twist didn't really bothered me that much.

---
View Original PostParanoid wrote:I sort of feel like if I had the opportunity to ask Butcher in person about how Homura was suddenly able to steal Madoka's power, he would just look me in the eyes and say
SPOILER: Show
AI YO, MOTHERFUCKER.

I admit that it was the most head-scratching point of the movie, so far the best I could come up with are more or less possible speculations based on what I can interpret of the state of the characters during that scene(see my above post)
I really hope that the next season will explain exactly how Homura did it, after all
SPOILER: Show
it's an important information if the heroines wants to defeat Homura and want to prevent her from pulling the same trick a second time.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Mon May 12, 2014 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Giji Shinka
Donor
Donor
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 2624
Joined: Jan 26, 2013
Location: Finland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Giji Shinka » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:07 pm

Another interesting Rebellion thread: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/W ... eRebellion
Avatar: "Anime-lehti" logo

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 22761
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Living in Houston, TX
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:39 pm

I'm not big on TVTropes as a source, but some interesting thoughts there.

By the way, thanks for the source hunting to that MAL statement I posted! Greatly appreciated! ^_^
~Take care of yourself, I need you~


Return to “Anime and Manga”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests