Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby soul.assassin » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:01 pm


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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Defectron » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:34 am

Saw this today, it wasn't bad but one thing I didn't care for is the movie was too heavy handed in how it dealt with the majors identity crisis, it was a lot more subtle in the anime versions.
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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:13 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Sadly though, I agree that the general blame in Hollywood circles will be placed on Scarlett Johannson being "not a big star when taken away from Marvel"... which actually is true of all actors really. But women get stung in the industry when their films fail.


I agree this has got to change and people should be stinging and pointing there anger at the studio, director and writers when films fails not the actors regardless of there gender because there these are the people sitting in there offices throwing out bad scripts and not paying attention to diversity and making bad films that have really outdated gender roles and as they say blame the game not the player. The irony of GIS is that had the Mayors role been played by a eastern actress I think the twist ending may have felt very different to a lot of people and much more like the character coming full circle and finding out where she came from and her eastern roots but the ending being what it is, is totally on the studio's heads and has nothing to do with Johannson as she just did the best she could with what she had.
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Re: Whitewashing And Diversity In Hollywood?

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Postby BobBQ » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:34 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:I've never seen the show or read the manga so I don't know if those things directly say what city the story takes place in

Niihama, a fictitious city near Kobe.

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Guy Nacks » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:17 pm

Ghost in the Shell projected to lose $60 million plus for Paramount/Dreamworks]

This should put the kibosh on the continually gestating Akira adaptation for good, let alone Evangelion.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:58 pm

I just wanna see Akira again. That's all.

*plays Akira on Blu-ray*

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:11 am

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Ghost in the Shell projected to lose $60 million plus for Paramount/Dreamworks]

This should put the kibosh on the continually gestating Akira adaptation for good, let alone Evangelion.


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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:48 am

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Ghost in the Shell projected to lose $60 million plus for Paramount/Dreamworks]

This should put the kibosh on the continually gestating Akira adaptation for good, let alone Evangelion.


I do wonder if they'd paid attention and had gone for an eastern actress if this would have been a slightly different story again not blaming Jo as its on the studios head. That Akira adaptions been in development hell for years and I don't see it leaving the starting line now and in my view no one in Hollywood should ever make Evangelion in to a movie as they will destroy and bastardize everything that makes the franchise great.
Last edited by silvermoonlight on Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:28 am

I honestly don't think it would have made a difference, even with an Asian cast or a script rewrite expunging the racial tone-deafness. The marketing didn't do enough to pull in a mass audience, and the cleverness of the movie itself wasn't good enough to elicit positive word-of-mouth, not even from people who didn't see the film's racial tone-deafness as an issue. Narratively, the problem with Ghost in the Shell is that the concept of "people with robot bodies" is merely used as an excuse to depict really cool action choreography without any lasting harm being done to the characters, and it only amounts to taking all of the tension away from the film's action scenes while actors perform choreography that isn't that much cooler than the action scenes in other movies where characters like Captain America can actually feel pain. On top of that, it doesn't go far enough with the "discovering my true identity" crisis that the cyborgs had in order to make that story really interesting. So it takes two really cool ideas and makes them as bland as possible.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:49 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote: On top of that, it doesn't go far enough with the "discovering my true identity" crisis that the cyborgs had in order to make that story really interesting. So it takes two really cool ideas and makes them as bland as possible.


I agree with that they don't touch on the fact that the cyborg being so strong means the Mayor can break things by mistake which is a constant problem which might take her a long time to sort out as in the 2nd GIG as a girl she broke one of her dolls by mistake. It also does not touch ether on the issue of her loosing her ability to have children.

I saw the movie last week in full and as well as the white wash I think the mayor issue was the weak as hell robotics company plot line its really hurts the movie in my view. I think they should have changed it and said that it wasn't some robotic company but section 6 who where trying to move in on section 9 and take over them as in the 1995 movie they were basically getting in to there affairs and they could have still have implied that they helped in the creation of the Mayors cyborg and the others with a robotic company and that they were using the Mayor to infiltrate section 9 as that's what the scenes with them downloading her memory banks could have been all about they were stealing from section 9 as they want their hard wear and software.

It would have explained the spider tank better as it could have been a stolen section 9 project that they had built. They could have still kept the other cyborg who went wrong as it could have been stated that he refused to be a warrior for there section 9 plan and got kicked to the curb. All this could have boiled down to some snobby politician who is wants to be in charge using section 6 to steal from section 9 so he can sell there arms on the black market and would have brought up the issue that the Mayors maintenance checks were hacking her as they could have been implanting codes words in her mind like look in to certain section 9 classified projects and she could have done it during the film with out even realizing what she was doing.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:09 am

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:I agree with that they don't touch on the fact that the cyborg being so strong means the Mayor can break things by mistake which is a constant problem which might take her a long time to sort out as in the 2nd GIG as a girl she broke one of her dolls by mistake.


Was this ever actually an overarching issue in SAC? I remember it being mentioned briefly in the 1st season (not 2nd GIG) and implied in the opening, but it didn't really come up much afterwards.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby BobBQ » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:32 am

Other than the references to the major's childhood, I don't recall it being a big thing in SAC either.

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:54 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:Was this ever actually an overarching issue in SAC? I remember it being mentioned briefly in the 1st season (not 2nd GIG) and implied in the opening, but it didn't really come up much afterwards.


Though I don't recall the doll scene in 2nd GIG there is a flash back to the mayors childhood and how she became an an cyborg and how she met the other cyborg Kuze as a child when he was human. I get that the movie was going in a different direction but the scenes of the Mayor in hosbital being rehabilitated would have added so much as there really deep in the series as the accidents both of them suffered as they were really serious.

Here's a you tube video for it.


I'm not saying they should have used the doll but a scene with the Mayor learning to walk and not getting it in that body or breaking a water glass by mistake by holding it way to tight or even punching in a wall by mistake in a moment of rage would have really helped carry the theme that she struggles with the cyborg body as in the film she had not been in it that long and its implied that it did take her time to adjust in the series.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Defectron » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:39 am

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:I do wonder if they'd paid attention and had gone for an eastern actress if this would have been a slightly different story again not blaming Jo as its on the studios head. That Akira adaptions been in development hell for years and I don't see it leaving the starting line now and in my view no one in Hollywood should ever make Evangelion in to a movie as they will destroy and bastardize everything that makes the franchise great.


IMO the whitewashing wasn't the biggest problem with the movie, it was how certain things in the story lwere handeled. Though really the movie could have been a lot worse.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Sachi » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:32 pm

I saw the movie the other day and I enjoyed it just fine. The whitewashing wasn't a big deal, and I thought it was balanced quite well by the abundance of other cultures clashed together within the city. I even thought the twist was appropriate for what they were working with (it wouldn't have really worked with an Asian actress, unless they race flipped the other way). My biggest gripe with the film was with the editing, particularly with the pacing; some spots felt too rushed, others too prolonged, and worse yet, some important moments felt brushed over. Some of the iconic elements from the original film felt a bit hamfisted as well. The movie as a whole didn't flow very well, and I feel many people that weren't already familiar with the franchise would be left lost along the way. However, it was very pretty and quite entertaining. I think it paid decent homage to the original while doing its own thing. In the end, while far from perfect, it's also leagues ahead of past anime live action films, and for that I appreciate the existence of this film.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"Bl

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Postby Alaska Slim » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:25 am

As I think was mentioned before, Mamoru Oshii had no issue with ScarJoe as the pick for Motoko, and Japanese audiences seem to love the film, or at least they don't overtly hate it, and are giving it a good showing at the box office.


From what I understand, risks were taken in adapting GitS, and giving it the sort of budget typically reserved for a sequel with broader public recognition. Its failure will prevent studios from taking those risks, not just with anime IP, but with any sort of original sci-fi/cyberpunk IP that isn't already a tent-pole franchise.

This GitS actually had a good in-universe reason, I felt, for The Major being white, but the story didn't seize on it well enough. Nor did they extend that logic to Batou. Something that makes the "twist" come across as the afterthought it may very well have been.


The film inserts the intro song (Making of cyborg) from the anime film at the end credits; but it's now robbed of all context. It's an ancient Japanese wedding song meant to foreshadow the *union* of Motoko and the Ai into a single being.

SPOILER: Show
Here, that didn't happen.

TBH, I thought that this too was a creative move; it actually felt like the film was making a substantive shift to establish a identity for itself separate from the original or SAC. But the alternate moral the movie was going feels felt entirely phoned in. That the antag cyborg could do this wasn't firmly established beforehand, and there wasn't enough humanizing moments for the Major for me to buy that she actually valued her persona to the degree shown.

A shame, because WETA worked their tail off on this film. Their work deserves recognition, but the failure of the story, and it's inability to strike a chord with audiences overshadows it. To parrot the common conclusion; it's a pretty Shell, with no Ghost.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:50 pm

This film also missed a huge part of the core of Ghost in the Shell: the Major's crisis was never about who she was (she knows who she was in the manga and anime, and never alludes to it in the animated film). The issue is who she IS at the moment, and who she will become.

SPOILER: Show
Her rejection of merger in this movie ignores the entire exploration of the previous franchise, protecting her moment of individuality in the present against a chance to adapt into something else. It is out of character for the Major,
but an American response to that scenario.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby robersora » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:32 pm

It's really weird how in this movie ScarJo plays the Motoko of the Oshii version, while supposedly being a completely different character.
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