Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Bagheera » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:13 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:^ like what's going on with Iron Fist right now people aren't going to give the movie a fair Shake because of its whitewashing.


Except Iron Fist isn't whitewashed, which makes that a (bullshit) manufactured controversy. There is literally nothing to complain about there, but people got angry about it because Marvel didn't gut the source material to give them what they wanted.

The GitS movie seems very different by comparison. Whitewashing aside, the whole notion of drafting Kusanagi into Section 9 against her will rather than her being a willing (and eager!) participant is . . . very much not Ghost in the Shell. The story, in every iteration of the franchise, is about what it means to be human, how we remain human in the face of increasing cyberization, how human problems change and multiply as the concept of what a human being is continues to grow and evolve. The movie, by contrast, appears to be a straightforward revenge story, abandoning everything that makes GitS what it is. It is, in fact, the exact reverse of the [i]Iron Fist[/b] problem: with IF the show remains true to its roots and people who want change at any cost decided that was a problem regardless of the particulars. With the LA GitS the show betrays its roots and relies on hollow themes and empty set pieces to tell a banal, utterly generic story, and people are quite rightly upset over that. The whitewashing is really just the icing on the cake.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Glor » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:36 pm

If it turns out there's none of that 'ol GitS plot charm, then it'll just be a neat looking movie that didn't live up to its source material, but I'll reserve judgment until I actually see the movie.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby movieartman » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:41 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Someone sure didn't like it:

https://thenerdsofcolor.org/2017/03/10/ghost-in-the-shell-worse/

Writer is a presumptuous idiot.

"That pretty much a tells you the whole plot"
You have only seen 15 fucking minutes.

but the philosophy and exploration of existentialism seem to be missing
The 1st 15 minutes of the 1995 film didn't have any of that ether.

However, nothing about the Major has ever screamed WHITE WOMAN. That is in the imagination of people who default to whiteness.
OH FUCK OFF. There is not a god damn thing about the 1995 Major that looked Japanese except MAYBE the hair.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:the whole notion of drafting Kusanagi into Section 9 against her will rather than her being a willing (and eager!) participant is . . . very much not Ghost in the Shell

I think this writer is making alot of assumptions in that regard, none of the other descriptions I have read about the 15 minute screening have said anything about her being put in Section 9 against her will.
Perhaps she meant that by giving her a robotic body without consent before hand (a disembodied brain can't really hold a conversation) that they forced her into It but that seems like a reach.

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Bagheera » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:49 pm

View Original Postmovieartman wrote:I think this writer is making alot of assumptions in that regard, none of the other descriptions I have read about the 15 minute screening have said anything about her being put in Section 9 against her will.
Perhaps she meant that by giving her a robotic body without consent before hand (a disembodied brain can't really hold a conversation) that they forced her into It but that seems like a reach.


"They didn't save your life . . . they stole it" is pretty damning in this regard. Now, if it turns out that's the villain playing head games with the Major, and she's completely loyal to Section 9? Okay then. But from what I can see it looks like they're playing that angle pretty straight.

That said, this is based solely on the previews, and it's true that previews have proven to be completely misleading in the past. So, we'll wait and see. But I consider it a bad sign that I'm filled with doubt rather than hype at the moment.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:49 pm

^ Even then, that's more of a complaint of "the book wasn't written this way," rather than "this is being done poorly," or "this film is too far off base to be considered a proper adaptation of the source material." Even if it is true that the element of "they stole your body" is being played straight, I'm still of the mindset of "Let's wait and see what the movie does with this."
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Bagheera » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:09 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:^ Even then, that's more of a complaint of "the book wasn't written this way," rather than "this is being done poorly," or "this film is too far off base to be considered a proper adaptation of the source material." Even if it is true that the element of "they stole your body" is being played straight, I'm still of the mindset of "Let's wait and see what the movie does with this."


I think it falls squarely in the latter complaint's wheelhouse, actually, but as I said I'll wait and see before passing judgement.
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The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Reichu » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:45 pm

View Original Postmovieartman wrote:OH FUCK OFF. There is not a god damn thing about the 1995 Major that looked Japanese except MAYBE the hair.

1. Settle the fuck down.

2. Since when could Japanese people be phenotypically distinguished by their hair?

3. Sounds like you're one of the many, many people who think anime characters "look white". To use your own phrasing, this is a form of presumptive idiocy. Basic primers:

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2 ... -as-white/
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Mukokuseki
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby movieartman » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:17 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:"They didn't save your life . . . they stole it"

The writer if that article implied Major knows it already & is being forced to work with S9 anyway.
The trailers make it seem like a reveal by the villain.
And the villains line might be/hopefully refering just to the Hanka corporation not S9.

View Original PostReichu wrote:2. Since when could Japanese people be phenotypically distinguished by their hair?

Something about the tone of skin they gave her contrasting slick jet black hair gave me Japanese vibes but her jaw & eyes never felt so.

Now Motoko in Arise & the newest animated film I will concede looks more asian then prior versions.

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Sachi » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:06 am

IMO, even if the message of the film contrasts with prior takes on the franchise, that doesn't take away from the final outcome of the film. Even the original films and the later series are contrasted in that the former are more about internal philosophy and blurring the lines of individual humanity, whereas the Stand Alone Complex series were rather more socio-political and focused less on the psychological aspect of the franchise. From what I take away from the trailers, this live action adaption seems like it's addressing something a little different, but not terribly so from either the Oshii films or the SAC series, and is still quite worthy of the Ghost in the Shell name. Of course I'll reserve final judgements for after the film comes out and I've seen it. Currently, however, this is my next most anticipated movie next to Guardians of the Galaxy 2 this season.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby silvermoonlight » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:29 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Someone sure didn't like it:

https://thenerdsofcolor.org/2017/03/10/ghost-in-the-shell-worse/


Though I'm not gonna comment on what's come out so far in this review as I want to see this film in full before making judgement the white wash issue of having the original character be Japanese woman then have a huge accident and be ported to a white woman's body is hugely troubling but its going to be ten times worse if there not going to play in the whole physiological identity crisis that comes with that and make out that she's perfectly fine with it. As that would be huge insult to the audience because the first thing a person would say in that situation is ask why did you do this to me? That's not my face this is not my body why have you ported me in to a white woman, I'm not a white woman I'm Japanese I want my real body back or a body that looks like my old one followed by them attacking the doctors and nurses because it would be that stressful for them before going to cry in the corner.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:31 pm

Heh! Just saw a GitS trailer while watching TV. Was talking to my wife, though, so didn't get a good look at it...
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Ray » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:01 pm

Is this from a real GITS film or did a protester make this to win an internet argument?

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Reichu » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:17 pm

Ray: You could have just websearched part of the subtitles and found out that they are from the 1996 film. This would have spared you from griping over absolutely nothing and us from having to hear it.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby SoryuUberAlles » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:58 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Heh! Just saw a GitS trailer while watching TV. Was talking to my wife, though, so didn't get a good look at it...


Yeah, same -o-;.... think I heard something like 'shut her off' or 'stop her now' so it might be a robocop thing after all unfortunately. I'm counting on Kuze to make this interesting because otherwise I don't know why they'd include him at all.

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:Though I'm not gonna comment on what's come out so far in this review as I want to see this film in full before making judgement the white wash issue of having the original character be Japanese woman then have a huge accident and be ported to a white woman's body is hugely troubling but its going to be ten times worse if there not going to play in the whole physiological identity crisis that comes with that and make out that she's perfectly fine with it.


I may be being SUPER GENEROUS HERE but... in the original it's said her body is a popular model based on an actress of something. Maybe that is what they're going for...I still remember the first time I learned about the 'band aids are in pink because they're skin coloured for white people' thing...that girl that asks Scarjo 'what are you' in the original trailer seems to be dark skinned. I'm crossing my fingers but it might - just might - be a 'commentary' on that whole issue. Maybe even a Lesbian of Color who gets the ball rolling, dare to dream.

View Original PostSachi wrote: Even the original films and the later series are contrasted in that the former are more about internal philosophy and blurring the lines of individual humanity, whereas the Stand Alone Complex series were rather more socio-political and focused less on the psychological aspect of the franchise.


But yeah, I'll say this for now. Government conspiracy is a big part of the series on tv and it's certainly authentic cyberpunk.



Good primers on that one but I'll say this. Another feature of the kawaisa rules is that young/female/cute characters are especially likely to be drawn in that distinct weird anime way. Gendou looks like an old Asian guy because he is Asian and old guys are drawn more realistically. Asuka OTOH is an anime girl with red hair and blue eyes. Shinji is meant to be both a boring, normal, bland, inoffensive Japanese schoolboy so he's an MC can identify with. So he has blue eyes in the anime...but brown eyes in the manga.

So the nerds of colour's image of the Major from '95 movie has blue eyes. I expect the Major is meant to be like Shinji. Japanese, if out context if nothing else, but Anime-ness adds in some touches that we percieve as Western.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Reichu » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:18 pm

Gendo is still an example of mukokuseki, since there's nothing "marking" him as a particular race. Now, the guy who talks to him on the space shuttle, on the other hand...
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Postby SoryuUberAlles » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:32 pm

^hmmm. The wiki refers to him as chinese man. Is he called that in the script?

'stereotypical features' can be a funny thing. In Japanese physical iconography, you need a prominent nose ridge to 'look white'
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Ray » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:38 pm

View Original PostSoryuUberAlles wrote:
'stereotypical features' can be a funny thing. In Japanese physical iconography, you need a prominent nose ridge to 'look white'


:huh: that's something that exists. . . I knew Japan had a unique perspective on race relations but just. . . wow.
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Postby SoryuUberAlles » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:43 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:I knew Japan had a unique perspective on race relations.


But what if most countries don't think white people are normal at all? What then? :wink:
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:51 am

The Hollywood GitS film is being dubbed for release in Japan. The voice actors are basically those who dubbed the original films and SAC.

http://kotaku.com/original-ghost-in-the-shell-anime-actors-dubbing-the-li-1793147644

I wonder if they'll have anything to say about the comparison.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Ray » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:31 pm

GHOST IN THE SHELL: FIRST LOOK PREVIEWS

This girl managed to get a first look at the 'sizzle reel' for the GITS movie and she says it's in her description 'going right into meh-ville'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdnkDtEmNbg

She also says she's 'underwhelmed' by the score. She wonders why they couldn't have used the original scores by Kenji Kawai, because a lot of what made the original GITS great was the memorable score and the use of the Japanese choir and instruments.

I think this is going to be like the Total Recall or Robocop remake. They're pumping loads of budget into the ad campaign to try and pack in early viewings, knowing that word of mouth will kill it pretty quick.
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