Souls Series (Dark Souls, Demon's Souls, Bloodborne)

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Monk Ed
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Souls Series (Dark Souls, Demon's Souls, Bloodborne)

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Postby Monk Ed » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:13 am

[Split from Currently Playing 4. - Monk]

In Dark Souls, I defeated the legendarily difficult boss team of Ornstein & Smough. This was the very peak of fun the game has given me. Frustrating? Not with the right attitude -- it took hours and I died many, many times, sometimes almost immediately, and yet amazingly I never got angry, not like I used to at games. It seriously helps that I knew what I was getting into -- my expectations were correctly set for how much of a struggle it would be and how long it would probably take to get past them.

These two are why I got this game. I bought it not long after watching a couple of videos of internet-famous let's-player PewDiePie playing it, and one of them was of his utter frustration against these two bosses. It is hilarious that nearly everything from his videos ended up happening to me too -- from being killed almost immediately (more than once), to even getting attacked through the white fog from behind by one of the giants I ran past to get to the boss room.

Well, that and it was on sale. I've bought maaany games on Steam I thought I'd simply never bother with because they weren't even worth a rental -- and then lo and behold they go on sale on Steam for cheaper than a rental would've been. :hahaha:
Last edited by Monk Ed on Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:19 am

@ Monk Ed : two words : FOUR. KINGS. :spout:
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Postby InstrumentalityOne » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:44 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:@ Monk Ed : two words : FOUR. KINGS. :spout:

Four kings are ridiculously easy if you deal enough DPS
the wage gap is a lie

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:40 am

^
It's a boss whose difficulty heavily depends on your build : if your character don't deal enough DPS or is slow, it gets horribly ass raped.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Giji Shinka » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:14 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
It's a boss whose difficulty heavily depends on your build : if your character don't deal enough DPS or is slow, it gets horribly ass raped.

Giant dad build wins everything. :wink:

Hardest boss, in my opinion has to be, surprise surprise, Four kings new game 7+. Holy shit it's hard!

Even I, a guy who has played over 700 hours of Dark souls has trouble against it.
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Postby Monk Ed » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:42 am

This would go in FML except that it's far too video-game related to put anywhere but here.

Just now in Dark Souls I accidentally hit an NPC so then I went to the Keeper of the Seal at the top of the church in a faq that you can go to the guy at the top of the church to absolve you of sins. When talking to him did nothing I figured that maybe what I remembered reading was that he only revives NPCs rather than de-aggroing them, so I went back and killed the NPC, then went back to him, only to find that he still does none of that for me. Then I finally looked it up online to refresh myself and it turns out they're talking about a completely different guy at the top of a different church than the one I imagined. :facepalm: Furthermore, he does not revive NPCs, only absolves you of the sin of killing them, which would have de-aggroed the NPC if I hadn't killed her. :lol:

I am now searching madly for cheats and mods and whatnot to revive the damn NPC. She is not important at all, whatsoever (she's the lady you find in the pit that the guy kicks you into in the Tomb of the Giants), but I'm just stubborn enough to prefer to cheat/mod the game rather than continue on like this.

EDIT: Well oh wow, the whole internet seems to be telling me it's impossible, perhaps even with hex editing. Oh well, it seems that it has no effect on the rest of the game and she'll be back in NG+.
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"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:53 am

^
There is only one character in the game that you mustn't make angry if you want to finish the game :
SPOILER: Show
it's Frampt, the giant... thing that appears in Firelink Shrine after you ring the two bells, and even if you do that(by hitting him for example). Without him you can't go to the last level of the game(at least the first time, after you can come back by your own any time)
There's an alternative with another character able to bring you to that place, hurt him too, and it's over, because even the guy on the Church can't make them friendly again)
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Giji Shinka » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:00 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
There is only one character in the game that you mustn't make angry if you want to finish the game :
SPOILER: Show
it's Frampt, the giant... thing that appears in Firelink Shrine after you ring the two bells, and even if you do that(by hitting him for example). Without him you can't go to the last level of the game(at least the first time, after you can come back by your own any time)
There's an alternative with another character able to bring you to that place, hurt him too, and it's over, because even the guy on the Church can't make them friendly again)

^Actually:
SPOILER: Show
You can go to the Firelink altar, even though both Primordial serpents (Frampt, Kaathe) are gone. You just need to drop down (You won't die if you do this) to the gap where Frampt previously was. :tongue:

But you're right about the fact, that they don't come back, even if you have purified all your sins.
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Postby Monk Ed » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:00 am

Yet another Dark Souls FML: I lost 60,000 souls on the way to Gravemaster Nicto. :lol: I got so enraged about it I extended my session by all the time necessary it took to make up for it (which didn't take long because the enemies around the last bonfire on the way to him are worth like 1,500 apiece). It's the only actual dedicated grinding I've done so far in the entire game, and it was purely out of spite. But I felt great doing it, like I was getting back at the game -- "Oh, you think you can make me lose 60,000 souls? Not only will I work to earn them all back, I'll keep going all the way to the next level up after that!" :lol: (Though, like revenge in general, I recognize that it's not healthy and I sure don't want it ever happening again.)

I love this game. This and my accident with that lady in the pit are the first and only times the game has truly pissed me off and they were both entirely my own fault, a result of being in a hasty and careless mood and lapsing back into old habits usually reserved for games that don't auto-save constantly. If anything it only highlights how utterly reasonable the entire game actually is.

It's just so damn ... fair. When I lose, I usually feel like I lost fairly, and when I play it calmly and strategically I never get frustrated or have horrible losses. The mechanic of only losing your souls for good if you die on the way back to getting them from your latest bonfire does so much for this, and even when I do manage to lose souls (usually by not taking the second try nearly as carefully as I should because for some reason I get irrationally worried that something will happen to them if I don't hurry) it's only rarely that it's ever a truly significant amount because I'm usually so careful about spending them before they accumulate to anything I'd be sad to lose.

And no random mechanics -- no "chance to be poisoned" or anything like that. That really helps, too; I detest random mechanics like that in general, in any genre. (Instead it's a bar that gets filled up deterministically, a mechanic I thought of independently in my own musings on game design, albeit in the context of a menu-based or otherwise more tactically-oriented RPG, and am glad to see implemented in the real world and working as wonderfully as I dreamed it would.)
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby Giji Shinka » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:14 am

Let's celebrate the birth of this thread!: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4O6ttzNxBg[/url]

And good luck against other Lord souls owners, Monk. :wink:

Also, the release of Dark souls II is just 2 months away. :boingy:
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Postby Monk Ed » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:56 am

Just beat the Four Kings. One try. Easiest boss in the game, bar none. No idea what the big deal was about. Even the walkthrough that I glanced at after the fact described them as one of the hardest bosses in the game. I guess my DPS was just that good. All that heavy investment all this time in high melee damage and heavy-as-possible armor must've paid off in spades. Makes me kinda worry about what it'll be like next time if I ever play again, inevitably with a different build, something more fragile like either a Dex fighter or a mage.
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:00 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:Just beat the Four Kings. One try. Easiest boss in the game, bar none. No idea what the big deal was about. Even the walkthrough that I glanced at after the fact described them as one of the hardest bosses in the game.

Like I said, wait until you face him in new game +7.
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Postby Monk Ed » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:19 am

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:Like I said, wait until you face him in new game +7.

When you say "new game +7", do you mean the 7th time replaying the game through? Because that is way, way more time than I am willing to spend on this game.

Anyway, after defeating the Four Kings I decided it was time to tackle the imposing-looking Demon Ruins and thank goodness I saved it for when I did, because it seems that my instinct that I wasn't supposed to go there till much later proved correct. I made it through all three bosses (there are only three there, right?) and into Lost Izalith, which I ended my session in the middle of.

Man, the environments in this game are just breathtaking. Those and the bosses. God of War was famous for sweeping vistas and enormous things (gods, etc), but in this game you actually traverse that terrain and fight all those gigantic things. The art direction is incredible to create such a sense of gasp-inducing awe at the scenery, the roots in the ceiling of the Demon Ruins alone look like you could build friggin' towns on their surfaces.

Hell has never looked so pretty. :hahaha:
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:51 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:When you say "new game +7", do you mean the 7th time replaying the game through? Because that is way, way more time than I am willing to spend on this game.

Ending  SPOILER: Show
Once you defeat the final boss, you go back in time. (New game plus is actually part of the lore. It isn't just a part of game mechanism. :lol:
It has something to do with Lordran's flow of time/time distortion or something)

You go back to the undead asylums prison, but


(snip) you still keep everything you had from previous playthrough. (Except embers, lord souls, certain keys to important places etc.)

Also, second playthrough will only last about 10 hours. (Because you are more experienced) Third will last even less.
Nowadays, I can beat dark souls in 3-4 hours. (Including all optional bosses) :hahaha:

[Spoilers hidden by me after-the-fact. - Monk]
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Postby Monk Ed » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:35 pm

You know, Giji, that revelation would have been way more awesome if you hadn't spoiled it. :irked: I know how I react to things, and I know I would have gone "Whoa, cooool!" finding that out in the right moment the way the game intended. They call 'em spoilers for a reason. Furthermore it seemed entirely unnecessary for you to spoil that in order to answer my question. In fact, one could cut out the entire first paragraph of what you said without any loss except for the removal of the spoiler.

EDIT: And so I did.
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby Giji Shinka » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:53 am

Boss names being spoiled is more spoilerific than the thing I said in my previous post.

Trust me, it wasn't anything huge. :wink:
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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:28 am

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:Boss names being spoiled is more spoilerific than the thing I said in my previous post.

How do you figure? Well, nevermind. Don't answer that, in case there's someone I haven't met yet the learning of whose name really would be a nifty surprise.

Speaking of which, I'm at that part that's after getting all the Lord Souls. I assume this guy who just killed me,

SPOILER: Show

Lord Gwyn,

is the final boss? Or the first of a string, perhaps? We are nearing the end, yes?
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby Giji Shinka » Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:13 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:How do you figure? Well, nevermind. Don't answer that, in case there's someone I haven't met yet the learning of whose name really would be a nifty surprise.

Speaking of which, I'm at that part that's after getting all the Lord Souls. I assume this guy who just killed me,

SPOILER: Show

Lord Gwyn,

is the final boss? Or the first of a string, perhaps? We are nearing the end, yes?

^Yeah, he's the final boss.

After that New game + starts. ^_^
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Postby Monk Ed » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:12 am

Aaand I beat the game. Took me only about 100 hours. :hahaha: That, in just under 3 weeks. I'm actually really impressed with myself -- usually I think of a 100+ hour game as the kind of thing that would consume months of my life. Then again, I did very little else during these past 3 weeks but play Dark Souls.

The bit about
Ending? Sorta?  SPOILER: Show

time looping was not obvious at all. If Giji had not told me, I wouldn't have guessed that my loopage was actually in-universe at all. To me it looks no different from any typical NG+. There's been no acknowledgement thus far that time has looped, for example.

Also, I got the wrong ending from what I wanted, because I forgot that the game expected me to do something in particular. Wasn't there like a thing you're supposed to light in order to get the "good" ending? I totally forgot about that and for lack of any other obvious thing to do figured the game just wanted me to walk back the way I came. :hahaha:

I'm not sure the game is worth another run-through. Especially not with the same character. I was honestly not expecting when I went in the first time that I'd have to play over again with the exact same character and build with all my stats and levels so that ironically really wrecks the replay value, because I would rather see what it's like to start over from scratch playing a completely different build. Yes, obviously I can do that if I wish, but because the NG+ is there and I also would rather not throw away what it's letting me keep, I'm left in that kind of quandry which makes me wonder if there's any point to another playthrough of either sort anyway and I'm not sure I see it. :hahaha: Well, not with NG+ at least, I can totally see myself doing it over again as a Dex-based fighter or a mage to see how completely different those would be, because I've no doubt they are.

Is there any, like, real end to the game? Like a secret true ending that truly ends it all and you get a big shiny "you win" screen and then it's over? Or are you expected to just keep NG-plussing over and over again until you get sick of it? Because if all that's ahead of me is an endless treadmill of the same bosses and challenges but this time maybe with larger health bars and damage dealouts, I'm not interested.

EDIT:

I went and checked out what NG+ actually does on a Dark Souls wiki. Turns out the highest difficulty is actually NG+6, not NG+7. It is a common misconception that NG+7 is the highest. After NG+6, further NG+ games do not increase in difficulty. Also, the biggest jump is from NG to NG+; the entire gap between NG+ and NG+6 is only a 25% increase in things like enemy HP.

Also, looking through the wiki, man, I missed a lot of this game because its no-backsies nature made me so fearful to try anything too radical :lol:. And stuff I just didn't want to bother with because I'd already sunk so many hours in and just wanted to get to the end. Maybe after a nice long break I'll come back to this after all and start over with a new build and play differently but this time hopefully going much faster because of my prior experience.

EDIT 2:

Hm, I should really go to bed but I have some more things to say about my experience with the game.

I am not bragging when I say that the game was actually much easier and less harsh than I expected. I think a lot of it has to do with expectations -- the way I'd heard the game described had me imagining a level of harshness that would have been infeasible for a 100+ hour game. In truth, the game was clearly designed around its mechanics for which it is known as harsh, and that actually made it not really all that harsh. For example, no soul loss that I experienced ever represented that big of an actual loss; I have read people saying things like "That feeling when you lose hours and hours of work" but that's just sheer stupidity to spend hours and hours building up souls without doing anything with them. Even when you do lose a large amount of souls, the output from enemies scales up as you go along so whatever amount you lost represents something you can make up for later in the game very quickly. Furthermore, even a large soul loss typically represents very little in terms of actual growth -- even if you lost enough for two level-ups, two extra points on your stats don't mean very much anyway, and mean less the further along you go (because the increases never change except to go down) even as they get more expensive. By the end of my game it took me 50,000 souls to increase my Strength by a single point and only every other point caused any increase in damage (I think).

I think maybe I also guessed right/lucked out with my build. Most bosses were shockingly easy because I invested so much into my armor and raw damage-dealing capacity. I had this aesthetic sense that the Dark Souls world would be the kind of brutish world where sheer brute power is more valuable than finesse or skill, so with that mood in mind I focused on upping Strength and judging weapons almost entirely by their power or defense number, and it paid off so well that the only boss which truly tested me was the double-team. I collected a lot of spells but the only one I ever used was the Heal miracle, which I used whenever I wanted to save on Estus and had the time to use the slower miracle instead. Naturally, I felt like I missed out on a lot of the game as a result of collecting so many spells and armors and things and then never using them (admittedly I didn't even figure out how to use magic till fairly close to the end :hahaha:), but man did I have fun with what I was using (melee weapons).
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby Giji Shinka » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:21 am

Good job! "Dark souls is a story that repeats." :hahaha:

About the ending you asked (Kinda): [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwUm_S1fedw[/url]

Check out every lore video this guy has.[url]http://www.youtube.com/playlist?annotation_id=annotation_337319&feature=iv&list=PLWLedd0Zw3c5RCXboUsPwHsZJlXB2CzCz&src_vid=7eJeUG1m6eI[/url]

Also, don't forget to play the dlc area, if you haven't yet.
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