EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

Yeah. You read right. This is for everything that doesn't have anything to do with Eva.

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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby ran1 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:03 pm

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:^

Easy there, Lothario: I think it's safe to say that someone who's self-described as a 'serial cheater' might have a rather wonky view on consent.



Moral grandstanding, nice touch!

Seeing as we've just...JUST...come through a massive series of scandals involving people generally taking advantage of the idea that 'consent is assumed,' and having their careers torpedoed over it, I'm going to say that this is a pretty ignorant thing to say.

So, since it's amazing that we have explain something so fundamentally basic as consent, please watch this video about...tea.

It should clarify some of that 'self-hating' crap.


The vast majority of sexual interactions in the 21st century aren't done by sociopathic millionaire entertainers whose power relationships with their partners are way out-of-whack. The nitty-gritty of the sexual act can't be treated in a reductionist fashion without doing real and irreparable harm to the human spirit. Making consent "easy" is absurd, because nothing about sensuality and sexuality should be easy -- it's a project that requires immense vulnerability on the part of the two (or more) partners who should be able to fall back on their fundamental rights to irrationality at all times. It's essential to the human experience. This project of reductionist categorization of human experience is easily one of the worst parts of Anglo-American thought and civilization. It is fundamentally dehumanizing and is based on the same reductionist assumptions that were used to run ideological smokescreens for slavery and industrial mass murder.

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:And honestly, how does costent devalue the intamacy of a relationship? If anything, consent, where BOTH parties are willing, enhances the eros of the act of making love, and thus stirs the fires of passion.


I'm saying the litigious framing of it does, not the ideal of consent itself. If people don't have the emotional intelligence to see if a partner is willing, they shouldn't have sex at all.

Like Gob said Ran1, your idea of "consent" leaves me dubious about your future relationships. I'm seeing a lot of angry women and slashed tires.....


There are two members of this forum who could provide positive testimonials, although they haven't posted in years. I'm not going to out them, but some of the older members here might have an inkling.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:21 pm

View Original Postran1 wrote:If people don't have the emotional intelligence to see if a partner is willing, they shouldn't have sex at all.

That's a start; but you don't get to decide that you do have that "emotional intelligence" on your own - that's the point.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:27 pm

That's a lot of words to say very little, ran1.

But here's thing: you don't have a good concept of what consent is, and it's not some '21st century bugaboo' concept. You described yourself as a 'serial cheater:' that means the only person you give a fuck about in any relationship is you. You didn't say you were 'open relationships,' where multiple partners are agreed upon. You said 'serial cheater.'

Because of that, you just don't have an idea of what consent actually is, so you dismiss it as some sort of fabrication. That is because, on a fundamental level, you don't see your partners as partners. You see them as things.

I mean, you said there's two members on this Forum that would provide 'positive testimonials.' What the fuck does that mean? Are they notches on a bedpost? Are you providing a service to lonely members of the community for a low, low price? Why would brag about that?

"Not trying to say anything, guys, but there's a specific number of people here who have TOTES good things to say about me!"

And that's why you can't understand consent, and have to make up some sort of weird, pseudo-philosophical rant about why it's this horrible thing. You don't understand it, because the women you date aren't people to you, they're things. They are things, so it's okay for you to cheat on them when you see the next 'thing' that makes your dick hard, and now you're trying to justify it. The fundamental foundation of consent is that you and who you have sex with are two people, and are two people with equal and valid feelings and investments in the relationship. If you just cheat all over the damn place, sowing your wild oats, it means that you do not consider who you are dating to have valid feelings in the relationship. You don't care about them, so your ideas of consent are going to be flawed from the get-go, because it requires you to make an empathetic leap that you lack the tools or maturity to do.

You can call that 'moral grandstanding,' but it's weird to have a conversation with someone where 'don't be an asshole' equals 'moral grandstanding.'
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby ran1 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:35 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:That's a start; but you don't get to decide that you do have that "emotional intelligence" on your own - that's the point.


Again, maybe we're getting hung up what I seem to have said -- and not what I actually stated. Consent is a conversation. Obviously the partner is privy to that and is responsible for being the other party. But treating it as an absolute threshold still fails to address the nuances and contradictions about sexuality that have been hard-wired in us from a millennia of religious influences, our own biological callings, etc. Second Wave theorists like Paglia, etc. have already pointed out the flaws in the current consent model because it puts the primacy on the platonic ideal of consent rather than the particpants' own set of complex feelings and emotions. This is the impact of reductionism.

Gob Hobblin wrote:That's a lot of words to say very little, ran1.

But here's thing: you don't have a good concept of what consent is, and it's not some '21st century bugaboo' concept. You described yourself as a 'serial cheater:' that means the only person you give a fuck about in any relationship is you. You didn't say you were 'open relationships,' where multiple partners are agreed upon. You said 'serial cheaters.'


I did indeed, but consent =/= fidelity, and I'm not sure why you're so insistent on arguing that instead of the more significant points I'm trying to raise here. You're getting caught up in ad hominem here instead of arguing the point, Gob.


I mean, you said there's two members on this Forum that would provide 'positive testimonials.' What the fuck does that mean? Are they notches on a bedpost? Are you providing a service to lonely members of the community for a low, low price? Why would brag about that?

"Not trying to say anything, guys, but there's a specific number of people here who have TOTES good things to say about me!"

And that's why you can't understand consent, and have to make up some sort of weird, pseudo-philosophical rant about why it's this horrible thing. You don't understand it, because the women you date aren't people to you, they're things. They are things, so it's okay for you to cheat on them when you see the next 'thing' that makes your dick hard, and now you're trying to justify it. The fundamental foundation of consent is that you and who you have sex with are two people, and are two people with equal and valid feelings and investments in the relationship. If you just cheat all over the damn place, sowing your wild oats, it means that you do not consider who you are dating to have valid feelings in the relationship. You don't care about them, so your ideas of consent are going to be flawed from the get-go, because it requires you to make an empathetic leap that you lack the tools or maturity to do.


When you're ready to have a discussion and stop projecting, I'll be here.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:42 pm

View Original Postran1 wrote:But treating it as an absolute threshold still fails to address the nuances and contradictions about sexuality that have been hard-wired in us from a millennia of religious influences, our own biological callings, etc.

But from another perspective, it is precisely this change of perspective that distinguishes us from animals and makes us what we call "civilised". Yes, you may be aware of those nuances, but you should also control your response to them in a civilised manner.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:44 pm

It's not projecting if you stated it: you established this line of conversation by putting out there. If you don't like talking about it, don't brag about it.

Consent and fidelity are two sides of the same coin: if you make an agreement with someone, and consistently break that agreement with no real concern of the consequences, then you are not going to understand consent. The same angle by which you would think 'if I cheat on this girl, I might hurt her feelings' is the same angle by which you assume a 'conversation' of subtle clues, hints, and assumptions is the same thing as stating that all of that equals consent. Sometimes, it does. Sometimes...it's a series of clues, hints, and assumptions, and that's it. And using that as justified consent doesn't hold up in court.

...literally, it usually doesn't.

Consent, as factored into 'fidelity,' would be 'Do I have your permission to date other girls?' If she says no, or if she 'implies' (using your definition of consent) that she does not like that idea, then you don't have consent.

So, by cheating, you are taking the relationship in a direction the partner might not consent to, and if they are okay about it after the fact...it was still a violation of their trust. Because there was no pre-established consent.

It's like saying a person was sexually assaulted, but they were okay with it 'after the fact.' Which is usually a lie, to try and avoid dealing with the incident afterwards, but that's a whole other conversation. Clearly, one is more serious than the other (you won't go to jail for cheating on your girlfriend), but the mentality that allows a person to do one is the same mentality that allows them to do the other. It is placing the other person, and the relationship, in a place that is below what you consider valid and important. If that's how you approach every relationship you're in, how are you going to be able to have an accurate view of consent? How are you going to have an accurate view that all the little 'conversations' you have are leading to consent?
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby ran1 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:54 pm

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:It's not projecting if you stated it: you established this line of conversation by putting out there. If you don't like talking about it, don't brag about it.


I just mentioned it offhand in a reply to another user. You're the one who laid out the very creative jigolo scenario. I'll keep an eye on the fanfic subforum for that.

Consent and fidelity are two sides of the same coin: if you make an agreement with someone, and consistently break that agreement with no real concern of the consequences, then you are not going to understand consent. The same angle by which you would think 'if I cheat on this girl, I might hurt her feelings' is the same angle by which you assume a 'conversation' of subtle clues, hints, and assumptions is the same thing as stating that all of that equals consent. Sometimes, it does. Sometimes...it's a series of clues, hints, and assumptions, and that's it. And using that as justified consent doesn't hold up in court.

...literally, it usually doesn't.


You've proved my point here -- treating these situations as litigious as they are is fundamentally damaging and dehumanizing.

Consent, as factored into 'fidelity,' would be 'Do I have your permission to date other girls?' If she says no, or if she 'implies' (using your definition of consent) that she does not like that idea, then you don't have consent.

So, by cheating, you are taking the relationship in a direction the partner might not consent to, and if they are okay about it after the fact...it was still a violation of their trust. Because there was no pre-established consent.


I'm stunned that you're even trying to equate infidelity and rape.
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Postby Gob Hobblin » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:22 pm

It wasn't exactly off-hand: you used it to illustrate a rather lengthy point. And I'm not the only user here to have picked up on that over anything else you might have said.

Maybe it's because of the taboo with cheating, I don't know, but you drop something like that casually, when most people won't treat that as a casual thing, you can't act surprised when that's something that is a bigger deal to the rest of us than you want it to be.

Now, my statements regarding consent and fidelity may seem overly clinical, but it's so there's no misunderstanding: it's not dehumanizing to say 'both partners feelings matter equally.' If you don't care about your partner's feelings enough to respect fidelity, how can you assume you have any authority on consent? Both require empathy.

And I'm not equating the two: I made it clear they aren't equitable. What I did say is that if you do something wrong, and then get permission after the fact, you still fucked up. You still did wrong, and that doesn't change.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Cybermat47 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:34 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Do I have to draw a diagram here? It seems like it, with the number of people who have missed the point.


Well, what was your point? We were talking about someone conciously and willingly penetrating a sleeping person without their consent, and taunting them about it later. You were talking about your body reacting to a situation without you deciding that your body was going to act in such a matter. Nocturnal emissions are normal.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Ray » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:34 pm

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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Quadhonk » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:52 pm

It's been so long it feels like my virginity has grown back.
It's difficult in times like these; ideals, dreams and cherished hopes rise within us, only to be crushed by grim reality.
It's a wonder I haven't abandoned all my ideals, they seem so absurd and impractical.
Yet I cling to them because I believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Princess Asuka » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:54 pm

View Original PostQuadhonk wrote:It's been so long it feels like my virginity has grown back.

I feel the same way. I haven't had sex in 3 years, so if I ever do it again I hope I do it with someone special instead of the asshole that took my virginity 3 years ago.
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:59 am

Ray: A perfect picture for all occasions! :lol:

Hey, you guys, look on the bright-side: at least you all have the opportunity to go out and find a cuddle-partner! I have to postpone any and all thoughts of intimate activities (sexual or otherwise) until NEXT Valentine's Day.
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Postby TehDonutKing » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:26 pm

Consent is way more simple than either ran1's views or typical sjwist views desu. Just say "Yo, wanna bang?" and if the other person says "yee African-American brother" then consent has been given. Consent can be taken back but only until the deed is actually done; regretting it afterwards does not make it rape, nor does being intoxicated when you say yes. As sleeping people are incapable of talking (aside from sporadically saying nonsense phrases, for some), they can't exactly consent.

Thinking that sexual infidelity is bad requires utter ignorance of human sexuality and psychology. Open relationships are the only relationships that make sense.

Also, the fact that y'all are taking Tines's shitpost seriously is hilarious to me. Has the forum lost all sense of sarcasm in my absence?

Anyway, 22 year old virgin with zero desirable traits reporting in. I'll die with the same number of sexual partners as there are people who have finished Infinite Jest: none.

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Postby Quadhonk » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:29 pm

View Original PostTehDonutKing wrote:Thinking that sexual infidelity is bad requires utter ignorance of human sexuality and psychology. Open relationships are the only relationships that make sense.


I didn't read the convo that took place before but I have to disagree man.

Speaking from experience, if you're in a committed relationship and the other person isn't faithful it hurts reaaally bad. Kinda shitty to willingly break someones heart like that. And knowing how bad it hurts is why I likely won't ever do that to someone I care about.
It's difficult in times like these; ideals, dreams and cherished hopes rise within us, only to be crushed by grim reality.
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Postby TehDonutKing » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:33 pm

Cheating is bad, but infidelity isn't. Infidelity is cheating if you decide on absolute monogamy, but that's retarded.

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Postby Quadhonk » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:43 pm

View Original PostTehDonutKing wrote:but that's retarded.


Well it's certainly not for everyone. But, it made me happy for a while. I don't think open relationships are bad or anything, just not for me. In other words, if I can't have them all to myself I don't want anything from them.
It's difficult in times like these; ideals, dreams and cherished hopes rise within us, only to be crushed by grim reality.
It's a wonder I haven't abandoned all my ideals, they seem so absurd and impractical.
Yet I cling to them because I believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart.
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Postby Gob Hobblin » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:28 am

Of course! It begins!

...Infidelity, by the very definition of the term, is cheating. It is actually a SYNONYM for cheating. It is used in legal documentation to describe the act of cheating on a spouse. So...yeah, infidelity is as bad as cheating because it's the same...thing.

If you want an open relationship, go for it! Nothing wrong with those, when both partners agree on it. If you are in a committed relationship, however, and you cheat, that is bad! That is a violation of trust! It's pretty simple, there.

As for consent and intoxication, there is a sliding scale. Alcohol can impair a person's judgement, but the scale to which it does can vary. A drunk person could probably be considered to have provided valid consent in certain situations. A person who is VERY drunk can't. A person who is DRUGGED (which is still intoxication) can not. If they are in a position where they can't make safe decisions for themselves (such as driving), they probably can't make the same decisions about sex. Why put yourself in a bad position by propositioning sex from someone who is that drunk?
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Postby Cybermat47 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:45 am

View Original PostTehDonutKing wrote:Consent is way more simple than either ran1's views or typical sjwist views desu. Just say "Yo, wanna bang?" and if the other person says "yee my African-American brother" then consent has been given. Consent can be taken back but only until the deed is actually done; regretting it afterwards does not make it rape, nor does being intoxicated when you say yes. As sleeping people are incapable of talking (aside from sporadically saying nonsense phrases, for some), they can't exactly consent.


I can’t agree that it’s simple.

When I was with my ex-girlfriend, I would kiss her and fondle her, because I thought that she would like it - and she never objected.

Until afterwards. Then she told me that it made her uncomfortable. Soon after that, we broke up, but thankfully we’re still good friends to this day - she’s a very kind and understanding person.

I think that, if things had gone further, and intercourse had happened, it would have been rape. Accidental rape, sure, but still rape.

No means no. But silence can also mean no, and sometimes people say yes when they want to say no.

Thinking that sexual infidelity is bad requires utter ignorance of human sexuality and psychology. Open relationships are the only relationships that make sense.


Infidelity and open relationships are very different things. An open relationship is when both parties are okay with the other having sex with other people. Infidelity happens when both parties say that they want to be in a closed relationship, but one (or both) secretly have sex with other people anyway.
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MuscleRobo
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Age: 28
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Joined: May 26, 2015
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Re: EGF's House of Lonely Hearts

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Postby MuscleRobo » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:01 am

Had a nice surprise when I got home. Another day of the office grind had gotten to me, someone actually proposed to a coworker so everyone was talking about love, romance and blah blah; at least HR gave everyone a cupcake after. I was feeling pretty lonely, my Valentine's plans were literally just to draw some hentai when I got home but when I did and my dogs gave me a nice greeting as they usually do my roommate told me to check their collars. My roommate had tied little 3D printed hearts to their collars they had made that said "I love you more than pork!" I know it's silly but it was touching. One time after making pork chops I literally turned my head for a second and my dog jumped up and snapped it off my plate so it was a nice memory. Plus I guess the night did end with someone licking my face, lol.


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