Shinji's role and freedom in Final [split]

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Postby Stillborn » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:12 am

Split out of "4th film info + speculation" - Ursus

You know what would be really unexpected? To drive home the point how unimportant in the bigger picture Shinji is (the pawn was used and can be cast aside), the Final should give him 5 minutes of movie max, and aside from that never make him appear or be mentioned for the rest of the movie.
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:41 am

The problem is that Shinji always was very important in the bigger picture, albeit unknowingly, because he was one of the few Eva pilots available and especially because he was part of Gendo's plans to double-cross SEELE and start his own instrumentality, be it in the old plan to awake EVA-01 before the Time Skip, or in his new plan to awake EVA-13 after the time skip.

And that's not even taking into account his status as Impact trigger, meaning that WILLE just can't ignore him(although Shinji would certainly loves that right now)

But as you said "the pawn was used and can be cast aside", meaning that now Shinji is for the first time in his life truly free from Gendo's schemes, and it's up to him to know what he will do with his "freedom" : will he just sit in a corner waiting to die a la EoE, or will he realize that now that he's free from Gendo he can really help WILLE and climb back from his pit of despair and try to join WILLE in the fight against Gendo?(even if having them trust him will be fucking hard) Because as Q showed us, it's impossible to fix all the problems by yourself, sometime you have to realize that you will need help from the others for that.


But anyway Anno said it many time that Rebuild is Shinji's story(or at least the story through his point of view) so I really doubt that he will ditch his main character for FINAL, especially now that for the first time of his life he has the opportunity to take his own decisions without the shadow of his father manipulating him into taking the decision and course of action that will suit his current plan.
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Postby Stillborn » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:01 am

This time he has WILLE sitting on his back. He isn't free. And Shinji being a tool, changing masters thruought whole series is starting to be grating.

As for not ditching the main character... No one expected 14 years of time skip, demolition of every previouis character development and just going with it without any explanation.

So whole movie where Shinji is just mentioned to be in "secure place" and everything else going great without him, Gendo beaten in grand fight without Shinji showing even once is not implausible.
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:53 am

Except that WILLE don't want to use him, if anything the only thing they ask him is to stay put and don't get near a fucking Eva, at least until they are sure that the boy is really Shinji Ikari and not some horror in Shinji's skin, and because Shinji does have an history of being a very unstable element, like when he charged Shamshel, or his retaliation against NERV HQ after Bardiel, or the goddamn N3I(even if he didn't know what would happen and that it was happening, WILLE don't know that)

If Shinji don't want to have anything to do with anyone and don't do anything ever again, WILLE certainly won't force him to do anything, unlike before where even if Shinji refuses to pilot, Gendo will make him pilot, even if he have to use brainwashing for it, it was only once the Dummy System was completed that he let Shinji leave without any problems(at least at first view, it's possible that Gendo planned to have him kidnapped and brainwashed to awake EVA-01 after he left Tokyo-3, after all Misato said that even if Shinji resigned, his freedom of movement will be restricted and he will still be monitored )

But now, if a collaboration between Shinji and WILLE happens, it will be by Shinji's initiative, since WILLE wouldn't have any objections at Shinji staying in a corner in a room inside a Lilin settlement, away from any Evangelion, and after his little stunt in 3.0, it's more than probable that they lost any trust in the boy to help them.(remember that except the moment he saved Asuka at the beginning, Shinji's actions were all detrimental to WILLE)
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Stillborn » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:08 am

I never said they will use him. Only that he isn't free. Being forced to do nothing is as much opressive as forced to do something.

But if they find out he may be controlled... Misato guilttripped him into piloting once. I don't think she is above doing it again if it would be beneficial for them. They are heroes after all so it would be "so different" from Gendo using him, and all for noble cause.

But as I said, that would make Shinji look important and have any real meaning. His only role is to be a pawn, and if he can not fullfill it, he may as well be gone from the movie completly since otherwise he don't contribute to anything apparently.

As I said long ago, I'm prepared to see any asspull by Anno.
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:40 am

You just said that Shinji is a tool and will just change of master, so yes you're saying that they will use him.

But anyway we don't have any idea of what WILLE planned to do with Shinji, I don't think they planned to leave him in that tiny cell in the quarantine zone(although it looked more like a brig for me...) of the AAA Wunder forever!

And after all the times Shinji has been guilt-tripped into doing something(the latest case being Kaworu by putting the DSS Choker), I think that he's immunized now, and if he don't want to do anything ever again, this time he won't, after all from his point of view it's impossible to look more bad toward Misato and co, so he don't have anything to lose.

Besides, remember that Misato is the only commanding officer that didn't guilt-tripped Shinji, but always offered him the opportunity to resign if he wanted : in 1.0 after Shamshel she said that Shinji can get out whenever he wants and that nobody will prevent him(it's false, Gendo needs Shinji for his plan and is ready for brainwashing him for that, but Misato didn't know that), and when after being nearly cooked alive by Ramiel he was reticent to participate at operation Yashima, Misato showed him Lilith, not for guilt-tripping him(Rei was healed and ready to go with EVA-00), but to make him understand why they are fighting for and so he could have all the information before taking his decision.
And what happened? Shinji accepted to fight, Misato even thanked him with all her heart for deciding to stay, meaning that had he still refused to fight, Misato would have accepted his decision... and then Gendo would have made Shinji kidnapped and brainwashed, but again Misato didn't know that.

Anyway my point is that unlike Kaworu and especially Gendo, Misato is a far more honest commanding officer, that's why she have the total loyalty and admiration of her crew in the AAA Wunder.
Even if they find out Shinji can be controlled to do something useful to WILLE(and even if it's piloting, after all there are four Evas that we don't know the whereabouts), Misato won't force him, because that's not her style, and because even from a purely pragmatic point of view, Shinji isn't as indispensable as before the time skip, when there was only an handful of pilots against the Angels, now she has far more resources, the AAA Wunder being the main one, and can let Shinji be if he don't want to do anything.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger


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