The Evangelion of Video Games?

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:26 am

View Original PostSimplyMason0 wrote:The reason MGS2 is considered the Eva to most people for its "meme" theme about repeating sequels, expectations and the media controlling ones tastes. Stuff like MGS4 wasn't ment to be made and had to be taking in face value.


I guess you have a point, although in the MGS games such themes are generally just means of adding significance to an action-heavy plot, and generally any mindfuckery is off the shock variety rather than the subtle or psychological type seen in Evangelion. Moreover in MGS such themes are generally a bit overblown to suit the action-movie themes (particularly in the more recent games) and aren't as central to the plot as they are in Evangelion. In MGS you can overlook the meme themes and focus more on the themes of war, violence etc. whereas in games such as Silent Hill and Dear Esther, Evangelion-esque themes are more heavily involved in the plot.
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Postby Lavinius » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:04 pm

View Original PostStryker wrote:Bastion.
^this

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Re: The Evangelion of Video Games?

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Postby Katana » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:21 pm

View Original Postkomos90 wrote:What video game would you consider the Evangelion of video games

Action 52.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:48 pm

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote: To the Moon


After playing the game, I would like to second this. I've mentioned this before, but the song Everything's Alright gives me a KST/TwK vibe, as well.
Last edited by Shinoyami65 on Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SimplyMason0 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:37 pm

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:I guess you have a point, although in the MGS games such themes are generally just means of adding significance to an action-heavy plot, and generally any mindfuckery is off the shock variety rather than the subtle or psychological type seen in Evangelion. Moreover in MGS such themes are generally a bit overblown to suit the action-movie themes (particularly in the more recent games) and aren't as central to the plot as they are in Evangelion. In MGS you can overlook the meme themes and focus more on the themes of war, violence etc. whereas in games such as Silent Hill and Dear Esther, Evangelion-esque themes are more heavily involved in the plot.


While its true MGS2 has a far more different style of Eva. The "Eva of video games" seem to implying something that is deep and mindscrewy. Given that its meme theory and how the S3 plan is a real life sequel can consider it that. The mindscrew is mostly for Raiden who is an living incarnate of the player suffering through it rather than more social issues like Eva.

Though some of the bosses do serve a purpose, they just aren't as interesting than MGS1. They weren't completely filler. The Cobras in the next game, totally.

How the meme theory can be absorb is a much more harder to fallow since there is so many sequels. MGS4 took it to face value with plenty other games rolling around. Thing is, Kojima didn't want to make a direct sequel to it. He hated MGS4 and the game's tone was Kojima saying "I hate you fans!" cause people really didn't get it.
Last edited by SimplyMason0 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby InstrumentalityOne » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:42 pm

Spec Ops: The Line
fills the title Evangelion: The Video Game almost perfectly.

Just go. Play it.
Saying anything more would be spoiling the fun

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Postby NIkkolas » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:32 pm

MGS2 was a very Meta game. It's all about attacking the player and the video game industry as a whole.

I've heard EVA is a very meta series as well, being larrgely influenced by the director's depression and his ideas of Otaku culture. That's just what I've heard anyway.

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Postby SimplyMason0 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:30 am

Not sure if Eva was meta. There are people for calling it a deconstruction but its only VERY relevant for 4 episodes.

However, if a better category were to be placed for MGS2, it would probably be the "Scream of Video Games" since its mindscrew was based on meta concepts.

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Postby The Killer of Heroes » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:28 pm

View Original PostNIkkolas wrote: It's all about attacking the player and the video game industry as a whole.

Where do you see attacks on the gaming industry in MGS2?

I mean I see a lot of concerns and attacks directed at the digital age in general (Such as how the internet is used to spread misinformation at an alarming rate, and how information in general is twisted for a variety of reasons), but the gaming industry seems a bit specific for MGS2's broadness.

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Postby Veefy » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:41 am

The surrealist Italian movie you can watch in GTA5 reminds me of certain sequences in End of Evangelion. :D

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Postby SimplyMason0 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:19 am

View Original PostThe Killer of Heroes wrote:Where do you see attacks on the gaming industry in MGS2?

I mean I see a lot of concerns and attacks directed at the digital age in general (Such as how the internet is used to spread misinformation at an alarming rate, and how information in general is twisted for a variety of reasons), but the gaming industry seems a bit specific for MGS2's broadness.


It think its mostly due to wanting to escape as a badass soldier like Solid Snake or how games repeat the same formula in sequels.

However later games have Big Boss who is an even more badass than Solid Snake and that stuff could apply to other forms of media as well.

I think MGS4 is more of an attack since its was build by the depression of Kojima making a direct sequel to MGS2 which was ment to be ambiguous.

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Postby EvangelionGodMode » Fri May 09, 2014 10:28 pm

Half life 2. It has a good storyline and well developed characters. The storyline alwasys leaves more questions than answers. If i had to choose anygame to represent video games as an artform i would choose HL2. Great gameplay, great storyline, great physics, and the gravity gun. I like Halo and Cod, but HL2 is way better and more of masterpiece and a gem. Plus unlike halo and COD we only get a Half life game about every 10 years. This is the closest thing to NGE that we will ever get in video game form IMO.
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Postby Dima » Sat May 10, 2014 3:17 am

Nier the thread.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat May 10, 2014 6:50 am

View Original PostEvangelionGodMode wrote:Half life 2. It has a good storyline and well developed characters. The storyline alwasys leaves more questions than answers. If i had to choose anygame to represent video games as an artform i would choose HL2. Great gameplay, great storyline, great physics, and the gravity gun. I like Halo and Cod, but HL2 is way better and more of masterpiece and a gem. Plus unlike halo and COD we only get a Half life game about every 10 years. This is the closest thing to NGE that we will ever get in video game form IMO.


I'd say they're close in terms of quality, although NGE tends to be about psychological exploration as well, while Half-Life 2 explores more physical themes such as the repression of humanity under the Combine. HL2 does have some NGE-esque trippy sequences whenever the G-Man shows up, though.
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Postby Stillborn » Sat May 10, 2014 7:44 am

As someone mentioned before - MGS2.

Aside from some really mindfucking moments in game and its 4th wall attacks, Raiden seems to resemble Shinji on many levels. He is disliked by fans for not being their favourite badass, accused of being whiny. At some point he even states that he would leave the battlefield as soon as he could, the sentiment that Shinji constantly shows. He is manipulated and used throughout all the game and even his "victory" is ambigious as much as EoE ending.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat May 10, 2014 8:31 am

^Besides also being often thought of as feminine. Although Raiden does one-up Shinji by actually having a wife and kid.
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Postby Stillborn » Sat May 10, 2014 9:13 am

That's something I would like to harp on as well. Rose was pretty much a fake, placed near him as a spy and she was lying to him for a long time. She once again lied to him about the miscarriage which made him pretty much a deathseeker. It's practically a miracle he survived being runover by submarine.

Yet he still accepted her back. Which in my opinion is because Raiden, just like Shinji is expected to, due to traumas he suffered, lowered his standards and would cling even to someone who was making a fool of him pretty much from the beginning.

On other hand Raiden is pretty good example that traumas does not make you a better person (even before Rose deception in MGS4, Jack was drinking and fighting in bars, putting a strain on their relationship), so for me he is example of the most possible path that Shinji may take while growing up after EoE or Rebuild (Just without returning to combat).
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Postby Wanderlust » Sat May 10, 2014 4:28 pm

Replying to rather old posts, but what the hell.

View Original PostNemZ wrote:I seriously HATE that game. The plot was fubared and gave the original cast off-screen weaksauce deaths, the new charecters far too numerous and generally forgettable, the element system was tedious while completely losing every scrap of what made Chrono Trigger so charming, and simply by existing it cut off the possibility of there ever being a true sequel to the original.

Utter and complete failure of a game. -10/10, would not recommend even as a joke.

Chrono Cross: not even once.


Much agreed. Been a longtime Chrono Trigger fan and finally gave Chrono Cross a try last year, but I couldn't endure it for more than 10 hours or so, so I didn't even get to the part where they actually tie it in with Trigger, presumably ruining some of its characters and mythology/lore in the process.

I must say, though, while I would never recommend the game to anyone, I can't call it a complete and utter failure, since I absolutely adored the soundtrack. But yeah, just get that instead of the actual game, it's not worth putting up with that inane storytelling and tedious gameplay to listen to those glorious tunes.

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:
Spoiler related to the spoiler in SSD's post  SPOILER: Show

Wait, it actually is a prequel? Like, not just spiritually, but actually? I thought Xenosaga was made as it was because of copyright issues and so they could not actually make a game set in the same continuity, or something like that. Was that just an inaccurate rumor or a red herring or something?


SPOILER: Show
No, you're right, it's not a direct sequel, but more of a spiritual one. Basically, the "Xenoverse" has 6 episodes worth of story, and Xenogears consisted only of one (Episode 5). But Square wasn't willing to give the team that worked on XG the chance to produce the remaining episodes, so they left the company and formed their own brand in Monolith Soft, where they could tell the rest of the Xenoverse story. But yeah, due to copyright issues, they couldn't actually reference Xenogears directly, so they basically rebooted the universe with Xenosaga. And the reason it's considered a spiritual prequel is because Xenosaga covered episodes 1 and 2 of the Xenoverse story (even though what was initially supposed to be episode 2 ended up being split in two games - 2 and 3), while Xenogears covered episode 5.
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Postby NIkkolas » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:46 am

Having finally seen Eva, I want to call everyone who ever compared it to Xenogears a big fat liar and blame them for me not enjoying NGE as much as I might have. i went in with inaccurate expectations based on this comparison.
I have actually met people who call Xenogears "bad Evangelion fanfiction."

Evangelion was okay but its worldbuilding and storytelling having nothing on Xenogears which provided a wonderfully detailed universe for us to explore and learn about. But that's fine as NGE is about the characters more than the plot.
And even getting beyond that, there's the simple fact Xenogears is a straightforward story. It's a very good, intriguing story but it's still a straight narrative. Contrast with the subversive "Deconstruction" of Eva's story.

Quite frankly I don't know why anyone ever compared these two things. They both have robots?

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Postby Ieyasu » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:40 am

View Original PostThe Killer of Heroes wrote:Where do you see attacks on the gaming industry in MGS2?

I mean I see a lot of concerns and attacks directed at the digital age in general (Such as how the internet is used to spread misinformation at an alarming rate, and how information in general is twisted for a variety of reasons), but the gaming industry seems a bit specific for MGS2's broadness.


I think it was more a shot at the player than the industry. A few lines in it like:

"A virtual grunt of the digital age, that's just great"
"You don't get injured in VR, do you?"


and then Raiden countering that the VR training is super-effective and "realistic in every way". And then:

"That's what they want you to think, to remove you from the fear that goes with battle situations."
"War as a videogame. what better way to raise the ultimate solder?"


...Hm.

"It's just a game, it's just a game like usual." "Honestly, you have played the game for a long time, don't you have anything else to do?"
etc.

the whole thing is a wrapped-up control metaphor - Jack is a digitally controlled grunt, trained using "videogames", fake scenarios and manipulation to do exactly what the powers that be want. So I guess people took that to be a jab at the player and media manipulation, and that you are Jack and you've been "duped" into a scenario (or even into playing a "reboot" of MGS1, heh)

I guess I can see some comparison between MGS2 and Eva; MGS2 is about control and Jack's revelation about himself, but Eva is more about "choosing life" even though it hurts. Not sure MGS2 touched on that much beyond the idea that Jack runs away from his past and later accepts it, but his character and Shinji's have similarities. Eva goes into far more detail on the reasons and motivations, MGS goes into detail on other stuff instead, I guess the moral and personal themes of Jack are minor next to the ones about control. Does share the presiding idea that humanity needs a goal and a context though, just like in Eva, the 'Patriots' have a plan for all humanity's "survival", whether it wants it or not, "human evolution must be forced to happen" by the powers behind the scenes, etc.

I was going to say the MGS series, not really for much subject comparison but just for the level of depth it can go into to make a believable scenario and motivations. . .


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