EoTV: An ending not of advancement, but regression?

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EoTV: An ending not of advancement, but regression?

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Postby Monk Ed » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:51 am

From here: http://forum.evageeks.org/post/660656/How-is-Shinji-responsible-for-3rd-Impact-Split/#660656

Kendrix's quote wrote:Anno: That's the same thing as I [myself] becoming an adult. I'm often asked if Shinji-kun [represents] an old version of myself, but that's not the case. Shinji-kun is my current self (laughing). I act like a fourteen-year-old boy; I'm still childish. No matter how you look at it, in psychological terms, I'm [still] in the Oral Stage. A melancholic oral-dependent type. Well, this is a truth I can't deny; I can't do anything about it. I wanted to move forward from there, but the result was that I ended up regressing back to myself. A dead end.

Takekuma: Then in a certain sense the final episode of Eva is an unhappy ending.

Anno: Right, in a certain sense. If you take moving beyond that as being happy, then it's an unhappy ending. If you think it's fine, then it's a happy ending.

Takekuma: At first glance, it takes the form of a happy ending.

Anno: I made [the idea?] the title of the last song on the soundtrack CD. "Good, or Don't Be." OK, or don't live. Good or bad. [Or] is it both? I revealed a little bit of my feelings there.

Well, this is certainly something about EoTV I've never heard before. It's certainly not the impression one gets from a plain reading of the episode. I certainly didn't.
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Postby NemZ » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:40 am

It's the difference between getting what you want vs. accepting what you have. Either can be a happy ending depending on your mindset and where you started out.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:48 am

Go to the Schizo and Parano thread! Read through Number-kun's tumblr! These interviews are amazing, it's sad that almost nobody is aware of their existence. Put them in the Eva wiki, in Evangelion Discussion.
In one of the interviews Anno even calls the series a failure, and he explains why. It makes some sense. :lol:
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Postby LeoXiao » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:36 am

I think that Evangelion has a mostly static plot. It isn't about things getting done. In a sense, it's about things not getting done and therefore everything getting ruined because of it. The real developments consist in the characters' reactions to things not getting done. So we have to look at the ending in this context, I'd say.
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Postby Kendrix » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:23 pm

It's a question of acceptance, which really isn't anything new if you listened to the dialogue in either ending.

What he accepts is subtly different in either ending but...

You can see the way this is worded, that it doesn't have to be unhappy unless you pov makes it so, and the whole EoTV rants/emphasis on PoV.

To quote teh Rei: "To love someone [including yourself] is to love them despite their flaws." and Shinji has usually been rather effective at ignoring the obvious weirdness in the people surrounding him, it's a prerequisite to connecting with the likes of Kensuke, Misato, Asuka or Rei on a level where you don't look down at them with these scruntizing, pitying lenses.

So... its a sadness that he didn't give himself any of that acceptance, because out of all flaws a human being can have, Shinji could have gotten way worse ones.
He'a nice guy and he actually regrets/cares about when he does things wrong.

This is the same for EoE as well, see that whole "I'll probably still keep asking myself those same questions, and I still don't have it all figured out", the last scene, and Misato's speech about her own circles, and how she still learned something each time/ the value of it.

Again, the key word is acceptance.
Because that was perhaps all that was needed.
Of course it won't fix everything, but, will anything? That's the way the wold works.
Shinji started out as a realistic human being, it makes sense that he'll end as one - murrican muhliness was never on the table, really.
Just something resembling getting through life in a way resembling of the realizations that come with RL adolescence.

Also, definitely recomending that tumblr. Look for that other interview that clarifies some common rei-related misconceptions to be BS.
Last edited by Kendrix on Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:27 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:So... its a sadness that he didn't give himself any of that acceptance, because out of all flaws a human being can have, Shinji could have gotten way worse ones.
He'a nice guy and he actually regrets/cares about when he does things wrong.


I like to think that this is what Anno really wanted to tell.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Postby Kendrix » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:54 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I like to think that this is what Anno really wanted to tell.


That's certainly close to what it taught me, and it certainly did 12-year-old me a lot of good.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:58 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:That's certainly close to what it taught me, and it certainly did 12-year-old me a lot of good.


In my case it was the 15-year-old me. Can you really watch Evangelion as a 12 year old? :lol:
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
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Postby Kendrix » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:31 am

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote: Can you really watch Evangelion as a 12 year old? :lol:


It's called youtube.
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Re: EoTV: An ending not of advancement, but regression?

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Postby eldomtom2 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:32 am

Wait, isn't this a massive feather in the caps of those who say that Shinji accepts Instrumentality in EoTV, considering all the womb symbology involving it?

There's also the matter of the "Goodbye mother" line, which is commonly interpreted (including in the Platinum booklets) as Shinji no longer being dependent on Yui (which ties in nicely with the "Thank you father" line and all the Oedipus complex stuff), but Anno's statement would seem to reject that. If you can find an interperation of that line that doesn't have anything to do with Shinji ceasing to be dependent on his mother, I'd like to see it.

Of course perhaps the actual answer is that it wasn't intended to be what Anno claims it was when it was written, but he came to see it as such afterwards - he thought he (and Shinji) were progressing when he wrote 26, but when he looked back on it he saw the supposed progression as regression.

Edit: Actually, looking at a 96 interview with Anno, I think we can safely say that his comments in Schizo are him looking at the ending in retrospect (emphasis mine):

Anno: But I was speaking to myself. There was a regression back into the self. Thinking back over it, I feel like it was an ending where I intended to push forward but ended up being drawn into this feeling of blockage.

For me, personally, [the ending] wasn't very happy. In hindsight.


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