Will Anno achieve another EoE with Final?

The fate of SPOILERS is also the joy of speculation.
Readers enter at their own risk.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

Clover
Leliel
Leliel
User avatar
Posts: 738
Joined: Oct 08, 2013

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Clover » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:05 am

I can't imagine him making anything but the most predictable finale ever. Unless he goes full retard and does a second time skip, he can't escape the confrontation between Seele and Wille, Shinji getting over Kaworu's death and doing something important, and things probably turning out 'fine'. After all, why would you reboot your lifetime achievement franchise, change it all up, then finish it the exact same way with everyone dying? (unless you want to be intentionally stupid to bait people into calling you a genius) Sadamoto's lazy enough to just redraw EoE with a fanfic ending and get paid for it, but I feel like Anno has to do something new to really let Eva go.

More on topic, it probably can't be a groundbreaking anime film at this point. Anno's an action director in these movies. I don't know if it's a personal shift in style or a marketing tactic, but even bizarre and relatively character-centric action movies can't reach the level of introspection and imagery in EoE. I'm not saying it'll be bad, but it won't be on the same level.

Giji Shinka
Donor
Donor
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 2624
Joined: Jan 26, 2013
Location: Finland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Giji Shinka » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:51 am

Honestly, i think the only way that Anno could surpass EoE is to make action scenes over the top, Gurren lagann style. Have unpredictable and never before used weird storyline that is really complex.

And of course god-tier psychological stuff sprinkled there.
Avatar: "Anime-lehti" logo

SimplyMason0
Shamshel
Shamshel
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 252
Joined: Feb 27, 2013
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SimplyMason0 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:18 am

Unless they break the 4th wall. I don't think it can beat EoE.

The reason EoE was so great was because of how much it analyzed in the mind of Shinji and Asuka(mostly Shinji).

1 was a cut and paste
2 was suppose to be lighter
3 just felt shallow with the characters acting stupid(mostly Wille)

While I do think 4 might be a decent ending for Rebuild, I can't picture it being as good as EoE.

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 10056
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:08 am

I think many of you are focusing too much on whether or not 4.0 be as good as EoE, and whether it'll be a happy or sad ending; instead, I think we should speculate on whether or not it'll be the right ending for NME altogether. First of all, EoE is a work independent of Final and the two have separate goals; they will inevitably be compared, but no matter which is "better" in the end the quality of each film is based on its context within its given franchise.

Second, happy/sad is not an on/off switch for film endings. While it's common to apply those very general emotions to a lot films, Evangelion (both NGE and NME) is a story that offers a more complex array of emotions and has already shown to be ambiguous about its good/bad ends. What if it's neither happy or sad, and perhaps even quite vague? It can be anything, so long as it works for the story's intent.

I think what we can say for sure is that NME has set itself up so far to be quite the ending. Someone here already outlined how the arcs and progression of NME's plot has paralelled NGE's plot, building upon the established framework and spiraling it into something new. With Kaworu dead and Shinji at rock bottom, we're perfectly positioned for our new climax a la EoE. The plot and outcome may be entirely different, and the themes and morals may be tweaked a bit, but Shinji's is going to have to go through the same kind of epiphanies and rise above his sorrows some way or another.
- Sachi

I host the unofficial EGF discord server. Join us! https://discord.gg/WqS7wRW
I also host another server dedicated to Star Wars: https://discord.gg/wWYPwjb

SSJ Spartan01
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 56
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
Location: California
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SSJ Spartan01 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:15 am

I have a hunch 4.0 will be Anno's most controversial and surprising work yet, but I'm unsure if it will surpass EoE. End of Evangelion had the foundation of NGE to present a climax as powerful as it turned out to be. But at the same time, I believe Anno has set up Rebuild so far to deliver his desired impression for the finale. Rebuild has been extremely unpredictable in my opoinion, so 4.0 should be too. It will probably rock the anime world and divide the fanbase more than ever, leaving tons of people pissed no doubt. 4.0 may not end up as meaningful as EoE but it'll probably be way more thematic and over the top.

Dcmac
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 8
Joined: Aug 21, 2011
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Dcmac » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:50 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:All I feel safe in predicting about 4.0 is it's going to be in the same emotional spectrum as EOE was. The movies while not strictly following the storyline of NGE have followed the emotional archs present in the original show.

1.0 was kinda melancholic & quiet like the first 6 episodes of NGE were.
2.0 for the first half was very jovial, goofy & felt tonally at odds with what you remember NGE was... just like Episodes 8 through 15 were.
Then 2.0 became very foreboding & had a sense of dread. A calm before the storm feeling. Just like Episodes 16 - 19.
3.0 is a dark, nihilistic, there is no hope for humanity just like Episodes 20 - 24 were.

4.0 should be emotionally in the same ballpark as EOE. BUT I wouldn't be surprised if he throws a curveball in there.


I think this is a perfect summary and prediction. Things are much different in the rebuild and instrumentality won't be achieved in the same (if at all) way. Something will come out of left field to shake things up and it'll surprise.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 6856
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:53 am

Well, what does the OP even means by "another EoE" : "as amazing and groundbreaking as EoE was?"

Isn't what 3.0 exactly was with its surprise time skip and post-apocalyptic setting? None of us expect THAT to happen, not after what we saw at the end of 2.0, and Anno played with us by keeping the audience as ignorant and confused as Shinji, to showcase how absolutely everyone is now in the know about SEELE, the Impacts, ADAM and everything else... except Shinji who is as clueless as 14 years ago, and get the little tidbits of informations slapped hard in his face.
Have you seen many works playing with the audience like that?

Anyway, in my opinion Anno won't do another EoE, because on a narrative level 3.0 was EoE :

During the events of the final of 3.0, when you think about it, Shinji was almost exactly the same as at the end of EoE : an huge pile of traumas brought him to a state of utter desperation, to the point he's ready to do anything to make it stop, without caring for what others could think.
But, there are three big differences between EoE and 3.0, which can be summed as "his involvement", "the consequences" and "the price to pay" :

- his involvement : basically it's the difference between ordering someone to pull the trigger and pulling the trigger himself. In EoE Shinji told to Rei "fuck the world, I hate it, Rei make it disappear!" Cue Komm Susser Tod. In 3.0, HE is the one who pulled the trigger by pulling out the Spears, this time he took a much more pro-active role in the Impact.

- the consequences : in EoE, as mind-screwy and apparently depressing at it seems at first sight, ultimately the very end is full of hope : Instrumentality finally made possible communications without barriers between Shinji and the rest of the cast, leading to the destruction of his bubble of self-hatred and apathy(and it's implied the rest of the cast got his therapy session as well), he was finally ready and eager to embrace reality, and came back to said reality, Asuka came back to, everyone killed/tanged can come back too, SEELE got their false paradise and will probably stay inside it, meaning no more plotting from them, the EVAs and Angels are destroyed, Adam and Lilith disappeared and the Spear of Longinus is very very veeeeeeery far away, so no more Impacts! So in the end it's almost an hopeful ending, promising a lot of hard times indeed, but at last there is hope!
In 3.0, had Fourth Impact occurred, nothing good would have come from it : it would have been SEELE's version of it(or close enough) without Rei/Lilith/Adam to hijack it, and would probably doom mankind to whatever fucked up "evolution" SEELE had planned for it, teh the absence of the LoC didn't simply meant that everyone will die.

- the price to pay : in the end of EoE everyone Shinji cared about was dead at that point, so he didn't had to think about how he will sacrifice them in the altar of his self-hatred, really he had nothing to lose! But in 3.0 his actions had a very heavy price : the little(OK, almost non-existent) remaining trust from the people from his "old life" he cared about(i.e. WILLE) and more importantly the life of his last true friend and only remaining emotional support : Kaworu.

And these difference is what made that this "Rebuild's EoE" isn't the end of the story : WILLE and Kaworu's action made Instrumentality fail, so the story continues, and Shinji still has to absorb the lessons of what happened(ie to don't close himself to everyone else when things don't go the way he like it, and that he should stop to only think of everything with the lens of how it will affect him)

With that in mind, and contrary to Gendo'sPapa's prediction it wouldn't surprise me if Final is much more "classical" in it's resolution : Shinji learns his lessons, grows into a better person, acts to stop Gendo alongside WILLE without blowing it, we probably will have a direct confrontation between Shinji and Gendo which will give us a closure on their relationship that really lacked in NGE, maybe they find a way to restore part of the world(at least to undo the core-erosion) and it will end with the rest of mankind in the path to rebuild the world, with a lot of hardships on the way but with hope for a better future. Or you could considers it as the "curveball" Anno could play on us.

Classical? Yes, and that would be the representation of Anno's latest period of life : during NGE and EoE he was depressed and only saw the negative side of everything(represented by 3.0's bleakness) but after that he won against his depression and found happiness, realizing that the world isn't as negative as he though, and that will be represented in Final, which will have a more hopeful tone.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

airman4
Shamshel
Shamshel
Age: 34
Posts: 293
Joined: Nov 15, 2012
Location: Dakar
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby airman4 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:05 pm

View Original PostTMBounty_Hunter wrote:TheFriskyIan not quite. I was a bit off

1.0 = 2007
2.0 + 3.0 + Final = 2008

Two years.

Which is even more hilarious.

I'm glad Anno decided to abuse the profits from each film to take the next one farther from old Eva.
I hope the fountains of cash from Q will be used to propel Final into completely new territory.


belive me he needs to ressucitate Iso and everything will be okay
3.33 is already a fucking masterpiece

4.0 can't disappoint , it's impossible

I hope he gonna find a creative way to explicate the 14 years hole

Stan
Zeruel
Zeruel
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 820
Joined: May 15, 2011
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Stan » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:59 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:I think what we can say for sure is that NME has set itself up so far to be quite the ending. Someone here already outlined how the arcs and progression of NME's plot has paralelled NGE's plot, building upon the established framework and spiraling it into something new. With Kaworu dead and Shinji at rock bottom, we're perfectly positioned for our new climax a la EoE. The plot and outcome may be entirely different, and the themes and morals may be tweaked a bit, but Shinji's is going to have to go through the same kind of epiphanies and rise above his sorrows some way or another.


A la EoE. Seeing Shinji's state at the end of Q, something will happen in final. He could either do something and hence create an original new movie edition ending, OR he can give up (hence Misato drags him across the hall by the hand with his feet hanging)--in which case events would just unfold without Shinji doing anything.

Seeing the parallels between the movies and the original series, I can only assume that the climax will be gloomy in 4.0, but the outcome is unknown. In fact, I personally don't even care about the outcome now. Once the film is out, thats when Ill start thinking why Anno decided to go for "that" kind of ending based on the film.

But if I may say one thing, drama's and dreadful endings always leave a bigger impression. So if he really wants to re-create the same uproar within the community this time around, he better not go for a happy generic ending. Shinji is sad-->Shinji overcomes his depression after Asuka's friendship speech-->Shinji pilots the awakened Eva01-->Shinji kills Gendo and his plans-->the Eva's get destroyed and will never be repaired-->Shinji saved the world. :facepalm:

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8689
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:04 pm

Happy endings are not immature or generic.

I have serious doubts that Final will be satisfying to Western audiences, as the whole thing is following a dramatic structure that we're not familiar with.
the prophecy is true
The wish for respectability, observed spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti, is the greatest deterrent to selfhood and progress.

Stan
Zeruel
Zeruel
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 820
Joined: May 15, 2011
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Stan » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:26 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Happy endings are not immature or generic.



I never said they were immature

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 6856
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:02 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I have serious doubts that Final will be satisfying to Western audiences, as the whole thing is following a dramatic structure that we're not familiar with.

Can you develop more that part? It interest me.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Guy Nacks
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2943
Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Guy Nacks » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:08 pm

View Original Postairman4 wrote:3.33 is already a fucking masterpiece

4.0 can't disappoint , it's impossible

I hope he gonna find a creative way to explicate the 14 years hole


What is your definition of "masterpiece"?
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

peripateia
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 79
Joined: Jan 28, 2008

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby peripateia » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:08 pm

@Chuckman

I'm also not sure what you mean by the unfamiliar "dramatic structure." Granted, the Jo-Ha-Kyu organization may not be a direct parallel to say, the 5 act plays of Shakespeare, but I was able to make sense of the Rebuild films. It's too dismissive to say that because we're not Japanese and unfamiliar with the traditions of, say, Kabuki, we are unable to appreciate the deeper meaning or intent of NME's filmmakers.

EoE was a confusing film but immensely appealed to me, even though I am not Japanese. It's a cliche to say that film is a universal language (plus, eva is technically animation) but the cliche applies for all viewers of eva. (Isn't the purpose of Evageeks to unite eva fans, particularly those outside of Japan?) In short, I would blame disappointment in 1.0 and 2.0 on Anno's directorial shift rather than the barrier of Japanese culture.

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8689
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:19 pm

View Original Postperipateia wrote:@Chuckman

I'm also not sure what you mean by the unfamiliar "dramatic structure." Granted, the Jo-Ha-Kyu organization may not be a direct parallel to say, the 5 act plays of Shakespeare, but I was able to make sense of the Rebuild films. It's too dismissive to say that because we're not Japanese and unfamiliar with the traditions of, say, Kabuki, we are unable to appreciate the deeper meaning or intent of NME's filmmakers.

EoE was a confusing film but immensely appealed to me, even though I am not Japanese. It's a cliche to say that film is a universal language (plus, eva is technically animation) but the cliche applies for all viewers of eva. (Isn't the purpose of Evageeks to unite eva fans, particularly those outside of Japan?) In short, I would blame disappointment in 1.0 and 2.0 on Anno's directorial shift rather than the barrier of Japanese culture.


Usually I speak heavily of themes here but I'm talking about emotional satisfaction- if 4.0 is slow and introspective with a rapid conclusion that ties up all the loose ends, it's not going to be what a Western audience expects- the ending of 3.0 would be considered a cliffhanger in Western media and the finale would be ramping up to a climactic battle or dramatic event, when the end of 3.0 may in fact be the climax.

People may be disappointed if the next movie is all denouement.

I expect the visuals to be gorgeous and the themes to be interesting (once I have it all I can decide what it means) but I'm not expecting the most moving story I've ever seen.
the prophecy is true
The wish for respectability, observed spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti, is the greatest deterrent to selfhood and progress.

Monk Ed
Sunshine Administrator
Sunshine Administrator
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 8552
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Location: Chicagoland area
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Monk Ed » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:39 pm

Chuckman wrote:if 4.0 is slow and introspective with a rapid conclusion that ties up all the loose ends, it's not going to be what a Western audience expects

Wait what? That's exactly what I'd expect people to expect. That's what most of the speculation I've seen seems to be anticipating. It's a story that's all denoument that I wouldn't expect -- especially because we've already been set up for a fresh climax with Gendo's mention of a Final Impact.
System Administrator
"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

airman4
Shamshel
Shamshel
Age: 34
Posts: 293
Joined: Nov 15, 2012
Location: Dakar
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby airman4 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:38 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:What is your definition of "masterpiece"?


Memorable movie

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8689
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:18 pm

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:Wait what? That's exactly what I'd expect people to expect. That's what most of the speculation I've seen seems to be anticipating. It's a story that's all denoument that I wouldn't expect -- especially because we've already been set up for a fresh climax with Gendo's mention of a Final Impact.


It all depends on how much in introspection there is compared to the amount of resolution and how quick and conclusive it really is.

If there's no confrontation between Shinji and Gendo it's going to make the whole thing a big incoherent mess unless there's something else that's equally meaty.
the prophecy is true
The wish for respectability, observed spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti, is the greatest deterrent to selfhood and progress.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 6856
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:53 am

I don't think there will be that much introspection in Final, simply because there is much more at stake than in EoE : EoE(and NGE) basically was the story of Shinji coming in terms with the fact that pain in life in unavoidable and learning to love himself and open his heart to the others, all of this hidden being a Giant Robot story.

That's why we had a lot of introspection scenes, and if half of EoE(episode 26', and the entirety of EoTV too for that matter) was only introspection inside Instrumentality, it was because by the, nothing else was a stake, and really nothing was at stake to begin with : all of the final episodes, including EoE, were basically Gendo vs SEELE, and nothing the good guys(Misato, Kaji, Ritsuko and Asuka) did had any influence in the end, everyone ended killed without managing to even delaying SEELE's advance or Gendo's plan with Rei, ADAM and Lilith. As for Shinji, he was of complete absence of influence in the plot, reduced to a ragdoll carried by Misato.

And at the moment when Rei decided to give to Shinji the control over Instrumentality, everything was already over : every good guy was dead except Shinji and the Harpies were getting ready to begin the ritual for SEELE's Instrumentality. The only thing left was for Shinji to have his big introspection, culminating with his epiphany that reality is good and that he can learn to love himself, and Instrumentality was the mean to attain that, a simple plot device for Shinji's character development.


But in Rebuild things are really different : part of Asuka's message with her rant at the end of 3.0 that Shinji only thinks of himself is that the world doesn't revolve around him and his desires, that there is other people around who too have desires and things to say(like "don't touch those fucking spears!", and that they aren't subordinates to Shinji's wishes.
And that's a complete inversion of Shinji's situation in EoE, were the fate of the while world rested on his decision of what to do with Instrumentality. And unlike in EoE, this time the good guys are reunited in an organization(WILLE) able to present a threat for the bad guys' plans(neo-NERV), and there is a world to save! Even the preview follows this theme : only two lines about Shinji(that he lost his will to live but will regain it and hope wherever he arrives) and all the rest is about how WILLE is getting ready for the final battle against Gendo, and seeing the state of the world, humanity probably won't survive another Impact, even if it's like EoE and everyone get tanged and could return, this time the world is too damaged to let a chance for those who come back. Besides we're not even sure that Gendo's Instrumentality will be like waht happened in EoE(SEELE's one already wasn't like what they planned in NGE).

TD;DR : there is too much at stake and the movies continuously hammers the message that Shinji isn't the center of the universe(even if ironically the whole story is very Shinji-centric, especially Q) for Final to be mostly made of his introspection, there will be some of course, introspection was always a staple of Evangelion, but it won't be the core of the movie.

And I also thing that a Gendo-Shinji confrontation will happens : unlike in NGE where Gendo didn't wanted anything to do with Shinji because he was sure that he could only hurt him(and in the end their relationship wasn't that relevant to the story), here in NTE Gendo consciously manipulated his son for years, and continued even after passing 14 years without seeing him(and the neo-NERV logo in the tesseract could be interpreted as an hint that HE is the one who ordered EVA-01 to be shot into orbit with Shinji and Rei still inside), and has a big responsibility in Shinji's life being the hell it his today, so a confrontation between the two to get a closure of their story is necessary in my opinion, even Fuyutsuki though that Gendo should have shown Shinji his plans and how he was living with the hope to make him better understand his father and why he's doing what he did.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 22723
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Living in Houston, TX
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:27 am

Eva: Q's Japanese tagline was "The curtain rises on a new story". I think that was a pretty apt description.

View Original PostChuckman wrote:as the whole thing is following a dramatic structure that we're not familiar with.


I re-posted these in another thread last year or so, but just so people do understand the Jo-Ha-Kyu structure, here. It's probably good to keep the structure in mind so we'll know what we can expect from NME.

Scans: http://forum.evageeks.org/post/543464/Newtype-USA-August-2007-article-transcript/#543464

Snippet, text version of the important stuff:

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:
Newtype USA August 2007 wrote:What's in a name

The Japanese titles for the four movies in the new Evangelion series have finally been announced--Jo, Ha, Kyu, and ?. The first three titles refer to a narrative structure that is considered to have been perfected about seven hundred years ago, giving the new Eva movies a sense of solemn maturity and suggesting that they'll have a more traditional format than what we see with the last batch of feature films ten years ago.

Jo, ha, and kyu are similar to Western storytelling concepts of setup, climax, and conclusion, but with slightly different emphasis. Jo, the title of the first movie, means "prologue", what happens before the real story begins. In the martial art iaido, jo is used to describe the time between when the swordsman first becomes aware that an attack is coming and when they actually draw their weapons. For many types of performance art (like Noh drama), the jo segment serves as a cheerful and festive introduction to the characters and situation. Since Operation Yashima--a famous battle from the original Evangelion series--will happen in Jo, it's most likely that it'll be portrayed with more flash and spectacle than gritty realism.

One other interesting thing about jo is that it's pacing is often unnaturally slow, creating tension similar to that of a door creaking open ever...so....slowly...in a horror film. Ha, then, can be considered the moment when the monster waiting behind the door suddenly leaps out at the protagonist. It's when the story really begins. The literal meaning of ha is "destruction" --swift, violent action that rips apart everything that came before. In iaido, it's when the sword is drawn and battle commences; in Noh, it's when the story picks the pace and the humanistic side of the tale is revealed.

Kyu usually means "urgent" or "emergency", but "ultimate" might be a better translation here. It's the finishing blow, a sharp, quick action followed by a moment of absolute stillness. In Noh, it's when the true face of the villain is finally revealed and the hero triumphs over him--the denouncement, in other words.

Normally, kyu marks the end of the story--so what's the deal with the fourth movie, enigmatically named Evangelion: ?. No one's talking, and given the mysteries surrounding previous Eva incarnations, we'll probably just have to wait and see.

If the new movies do follow the traditional jo/ha/kyu setup, the first movie will probably be a sort of slice-of-life narrative introducing us to the characters and setting. Then something will change unexpectedly in movie number two, forcing the characters to alter their course of action, and everything will come to a head in the third movie. Your guess is as good as ours for what will come after that, but we're sure that it'll shock and amaze us as only Evangelion can.


Underlined emphasis at the end is mine.

Honestly, I think fans shouldn't worry about Final's plot and ending (Before I even saw 3.0, I had the feeling it was narratively post-EoE, in some respects), at least not until we get more information--which I guess would be in a year or 2 from now? It's gonna be a wait, but I'm hoping not as long as it was for 3.0!
~Take care of yourself, I need you~


Return to “Evangelion Final [SPOILERS]”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests