Theory about the coffins, Kaworu, and the EVA universe

[Dima]

I wante to start this topic a long time ago. I have made a few post's here and there about it but never fully went into details. I will start this thread with the coffins subject.



Nobody knows what these coffins are or what it is included inside them. Some are saying the pilots other are saying Angels and other's are saying Kaworus. I think it is safe to delete the Angels option. First of all they cannot fit (duh). Second that would imply that all Angels can have a human form like Kaworu which is impossible. Third there are 9 coffins and there are more Angels out there so. The coffins cannot include the pilots either even if the opened coffins number fit. There are 5 pilots in Rebuild. Rei, Shinji, Asuka, Mari and Kaworu. So that means there are 4 more pilots to be awekened? I highly doubt it. Plus it doesn't make sense for the pilots to be in coffins and on Tabgha Base.

So that leaves us with the multiple Kaworus option which in my opinion is the right one. But someone will ask why there are multiple Kaworus in the first place?I think each coffin represents a different Eva universe. The opened coffins indicates that the universe have been reseted 4 times already. One of the opened coffins may represent NGE universe. The universe is probably reseting every time human instrumentality project starts and will continue reseting until some requirements are met like Shinji's happiness or SEELE plans or Gendo plans or something else. After the universe resets and the time is right (probably when Shinji becomes a pilot) SEELE awakens Kaworu and their plan starts.

Here are some facts which i base my theory on.Remember what Kaworu is saying the moment he awakes.

''Not the third again,you never change do you?''
This clearly reveals that Kaworu met Shinji in the past. Not the Kaworu that just woke up but the other Kaworu who died at some point. All Kaworus are probably linked with the same memory or parts of it like their purpose, Shinji and world's structure.

''I look forward to meeting you, Ikari Shinji''
The Kaworu that just woke up will meet Shinji for the first time but already know him through the other Kaworus.

''This time i will make you happy''
Kaworu knows that the previous ones failed to bring happiness to Shinji. This Kaworu believes that he will make Shinji a happy person the same thing the other Kaworus believed. Like the others Kaworu fails again to make Shinji happy in Q but promises him that they will meet again probably in an other universe.

All these phrases prove that Kaworu met with Shinji before, knows what has to be done and that he have failed before, he thinks that this time the things will change but when he is proven wrong leaves Shinji with the promise that they will meet again like it has happened in the past.

Really there is no other explanation what the coffins could include. The coffins are on the moon protected by SEELE. If there is only one Kaworu why put him in a coffin along with others coffins that don't include Kaworus but other unknown persons? And where are the persons from the opened coffins? Doubt that we will have 4 brand new characters in 4.0 with a direct connection to SEELE.

Plus there was a draft/document from 1.0 that named the scene with the coffins ''Kaworus coffins'' or something like that. Can't find it right now but someone will bring it up hopefully.


Before i close the op i would like to post some words Anno said about the Rebuild movies and the Eva universe.

Eva is a story that repeats.
It is a story where the main character witnesses many horrors with his own eyes, but still tries to stand up again.
It is a story of will; a story of moving forward, if only just a little.
It is a story of fear, where someone who must face indefinite solitude fears reaching out to others, but still wants to try.


So there you have it. There is no sequel thing. Evangelion is a story that repeats but that doesn't mean that each time will be the same. Only important things like the pilots, human instrumentality project, SEELE's plan, Gendo's plan and Kaworu's infuence on Shinji will always be the same. The things that are changing are the personalities of the characters and their options. Even if there isn't a chaotic difference the change will be there even if it is a small one. We already seeing it on Rebuild. Shinji seems to trying a little more, Asuka has a different personality, Gendo seems willingly to have a dinner with his son and many other small things.

SORRY FOR THE LONG POST

[kuribo-04]

Numbers-kun in some thread (I don't remember which one) translated the draft. It says:

"The area around Kaworu is filled with identical Kaworu coffins." (I have a screen cap of the translated document).

I think that even if it is just a draft, we should take this as "official" (it could still be retconned), it is pretty clear which Anno's intentions were with that scene.

[TruthfulLie]

Seeing that draft/script was meant for the staff to begin with, there shouldn't be any "trap for the audience" to it. If the idea was completely scrapped, I don't really see the reason why the coffin themselves would still remain. So yeah, I think the idea of multiple Kaoru is very convincing at this point. The question is, do they share the same soul? Do they share same personality and memories? Qrei doesn't seem to share her memories with Rei-02, but they may be entirely different types or approach to clones, if we can call multiple coffin Kaoru as clones that is.

[Charsi]

So there you have it. There is no sequel thing. Evangelion is a story that repeats but that doesn't mean that each time will be the same. Only important things like the pilots, human instrumentality project, SEELE's plan, Gendo's plan and Kaworu's infuence on Shinji will always be the same. The things that are changing are the personalities of the characters and their options. Even if there isn't a chaotic difference the change will be there even if it is a small one. We already seeing it on Rebuild. Shinji seems to trying a little more, Asuka has a different personality, Gendo seems willingly to have a dinner with his son and many other small things.

So your theory is it's a franchise?

[Dima]

So yeah, I think the idea of multiple Kaoru is very convincing at this point. The question is, do they share the same soul? Do they share same personality and memories? Qrei doesn't seem to share her memories with Rei-02, but they may be entirely different types or approach to clones, if we can call multiple coffin Kaoru as clones that is.

Pretty much yeah. They definitely share the same and memories since Kaworu in Rebuild already knows Shinji. The personality in Rebuild is the same like NGE although the Kaworu in NGE seems more calm when he finds out the truth about Lilith and Adam instead of the Kaworu in Rebuild who he seems more ''lost'' when he finds the truth about the spears.

For Rei's part i think it is a different situation.

[bobbyfischer's ghost]

The multiple Kaworu theory makes the most sense to me. My only question is. Why would Seele have the other coffins instead of just one per time line? unless they're just that powerfull

[Dima]

The multiple Kaworu theory makes the most sense to me. My only question is. Why would Seele have the other coffins instead of just one per time line? unless they're just that powerfull

Maybe Anno chosed this way as a hint of multiple Kaworus?

[TruthfulLie]

The multiple Kaworu theory makes the most sense to me. My only question is. Why would Seele have the other coffins instead of just one per time line? unless they're just that powerfull

Multiple-Kaoru doesn't actually have to mean multiple time line though.

[ElMariachi]

It's possible that SEELE keep spare bodies for Kaworu, their own version of the Reiquarium.

Maybe they always have a Kaworu active to keep him informed on how the plan is going(he seems more like an associate in NTE than the servant and pawn he was in NGE), maybe these bodies have a limited lifespan in space, and when one body fails, his souls transfers to the next spare in another coffin.

That would explain why "Qworu" is slightly different than "Haworu" : it's simply another body that he occupied. And maybe there is still one coffin with a spare, explaining why he said to Shinji that they will meet again.

[bobbyfischer's ghost]

Multiple-Kaoru doesn't actually have to mean multiple time line though.

Good point, I need to stop thinking in terms of an Eva multiverse.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I don't buy multiple Kaworu's for an instant. The four open coffins could be the four Adams, or possibly the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th angels.

Also, isn't the word for coffin in Japanese similar to Kaworu, making the whole scene a pun on Kaworu's name?

[TruthfulLie]

Also, isn't the word for coffin in Japanese similar to Kaworu, making the whole scene a pun on Kaworu's name?

The word, 棺 is pronounced kan, so it's probably not a pun. カヲルの周辺は同じカヲルの棺だらけ。As much as I do not want to believe multiple-Kaoru or multiple-timeline or multiple-whathaveyou, it seems pretty clear that the particular line indicate that the coffins belong to Kaoru. There is also the possibility that the statement simply means to imply there are "coffins that looks like that of Kaoru's." But the way the sentence is structured, I think it's actually meaning that they are Kaoru's.

[Dima]

I don't buy multiple Kaworu's for an instant. The four open coffins could be the four Adams, or possibly the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th angels.

I explained in the OP the reasons why the coffins can't contain angels. Well we can't be 100% sure but it is pretty much impossible.

As for the Adams it could be but why Seele would have them on coffins? They don't fit first of all and since there are more coffins i doubt that's the prefered SEELE taste for keeping ''important'' stuffs. I can understand for Kaworu but no way in SEELE there are going like this

SEELE:Okay guys we have 9-10 coffins, in 4 of them let's put Adams, in an other let's put Kaworu and for the rest something else.

If there were only 4 coffins then i could see it to be the Adams but since there are more coffins and in one of them we see Kaworu awakening....

[TruthfulLie]

The four crosses at the South Pole probably has more connection to the Adams instead of the coffins. I personally find multiverse and any speculation that involves making connection to NGE bit of a stretch though.

[Dima]

The four crosses at the South Pole probably has more connection to the Adams instead of the coffins. I personally find multiverse and any speculation that involves making connection to NGE bit of a stretch though.

I wouldn't say that there is a direct connection. The only connection i can see is the main characters, SEELE, Kaworu and some important events like First and Second Impact but everything seems to work different in Rebuild in comparison to NGE

[Chuckman]

They've obviously embraced the idea of Kaworu as a time traveling metabeing that shares knowledge between timelines.

The past is obdurate. It resists change.

[Sgt. Griff]

Perhaps they're just setting it up so that Kaworu will return in final. I mean, that would make sense.

[wiser3754]

Notice the coffins on the far left haven't got the blood stain on them?

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

I think that the coffins are going to be somewhat explained in 4.0. Of course, if not, it will become the new great unsolved mystery of Eva. Personally, I think that each coffin contains a Kaworu body akin to the Reiquarium, but that's just me.

[K40s]

Why is people talking about multi-verses? couldn't it just be a time loop? Kaworu being the looper, he wakes up, does his thing, ends up dead, wakes up again in the past, tries again now with the knowledge of the first run, fails again, ends up dead, wakes up, and so on until he gets it right.

It would mean Kaworu's already failed 5 times, also little changes made by Kaworu had huge outcomes in the universe, à la Butterfly Effect.