Failures of Infinity: Don't lose your head!

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Shinies » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:05 pm

Haven't posted in a while, and having read all the thread holy crap you guys give more sense to all this than I could imagine, even if some of it goes to fanwank territory.

Anyway the theory of that big thing (which I see is aceptable to think is the Black Moon) being an entry plug for Lilith is quite awesome, though that would imply that it could use the planet as a means to travel the universe and that would open the question as to why?

Somehow I don't think that the fourth movie will answer all the question provided until now, I feel that a fifth or something like that is needed to understand what the hell has happened since 1.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:06 pm

View Original PostShinies wrote:Anyway the theory of that big thing (which I see is aceptable to think is the Black Moon) being an entry plug for Lilith is quite awesome, though that would imply that it could use the planet as a means to travel the universe and that would open the question as to why?

HOLY SWEET FUCKING BAJEEZUS.

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Postby Stillborn » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:12 pm

^^

I've made that theory earlier, why no one reacted so awesomely then? T_T

But yeah, it just confirms that it is plausible.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:27 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:HOLY SWEET FUCKING BAJEEZUS.

That... that video is AWESOME!!! :worship:


But anyway, following your theory, since the Black Moon don't seems to be in good enough state to fly anymore, the plan would be to transform the whole planet into a "Moon"(let's call it the "Red Moon"), stock all of mankind's souls inside it, use the remnants of the Black Moon as an "entry plug" for the Red Moon piloted by Lilith and go into deep space toward the planet where the Black Moon was supposed to crash into billions of years ago?
That would be an awesome plan, but SEELE's plan was to transform mankind into another race blessed with the FoL(and which probably retained the FoK, thus becoming "godly beings"), and it's stated in 3.0 that it was Shinji's N3I(and the hypothetical true 3I that followed it) which transformed the planet into core material, meaning that this "blood-red" world wasn't into SEELE's plan... so that would mean that this transformation of Earth into the Red Moon was the plan of something else?
Well if Rei's soul is Lilith's like in NGE, that would mean that when N3I happened she was at the center of it... maybe the FAR had a contingency plan in case of if a Moon landed in a wrong planet which wasn't already seeded by another Moon : launch an Impact that will transform the whole planet into a "Moon" made of core material, use the crashed Moon as a "cockpit" and continue the journey with that makeshift "ark". And when Lilith's soul ended right at the middle of N3I, since the 4 others ADAMs were inactive or out in space in the case of Mark.06, her programming activated and she started to transform the planet into a giant ark to continue the trip!

That's a so insane contingency plan that I could believe that the FAR came up with it! :lol:
As for the FoIs, maybe they were the Impact's way to transfer all the souls into a form which could survive the long trip toward the programmed planet for the Lilin, or maybe they are just "workers/soldiers" generated on site to protect the Black Moon while the preparations for Earth's transformation and departure are underway...
Last edited by ElMariachi on Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Squigsquasher » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:26 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:HOLY SWEET FUCKING BAJEEZUS.


Daaaaaaayum, I wish my Japanese was better. That video is brilliant. Depressed Sachiel and Bored Lilith are the best!

With regards to the armour on the Failures of Infinity, I assume that the armour was simply conjured out of thin air by Unit 01. When it triggered N3I, it reshaped the populace in its own image. The organic components are formed from the coalesced bodies of the people of the Earth, and Unit 01 just used its ungodly powers to clothe them in armour similar to its own, possibly forming it from nearby materials (concrete, steel girders, etc) which it converted into armour with its AT field/magic powers/the force/sheer willpower or whatever.

Perhaps the MP Eva units are actually based on the Failures of Infinity, simply recovered, regenerated, re-armoured, restrained and armed accordingly, with dummy plugs (or possibly Rei clones *shudder*) to control them.
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Postby Shinies » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:29 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:HOLY SWEET FUCKING BAJEEZUS.


Well played good sir, well played. :lol:

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:43 am

@ Squigsquasher : the FoI seems to be made of the same material than the landscape, meaning core material, that's supported by the fact that when EVA-13 was descending through the Main Shaft and the "tunnel of FoIs", said tunnel was created by cuting clean the FoIs that were obstructing the way down, and when you see their inside, they are completely red and smooth, like they were made of stone... or core material.

As for the MP-EVAs, when Shinji is looking for Rei Q shortly after his arriving, we see an assembly line with dozen of EVA arms hanging from a rail, so these EVA have been built from scratch inside neo-NERV.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Charsi » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:03 pm

That's so crazy a theory it makes sense. Holy #@$%#. It explains the mouth too. The entire planet was "ascending" and the process got stopped part way through. Stopped, presumably, by beheading the "pilot" Lilith in her "entry plug", the giant corkscrew Black Moon.

Wait.

What if we draw a parallel here between Lilith and Kaworu.

Lets get a bit silly and pretend that the Lance of Cassius reduces Eva-01 to a great big entry plug. Would that make the Black Moon and Lilith the other plug? If they activate together could we not then draw a parallel between Lilith's beheading and Kaworu's, as well as Shinji's orbital positioning (after 2.22) and ejection (3.33) as desperate efforts to stop a massive impact in progress?

The FoI's - and the tooth chasm - are therefore explained by the same process. They're an ascension-in-progress, a remaking of the world and everyone on it. Yeah, we kinda knew this about the FoI's but i've never been able to explain the teeth thing myself. It makes sense if the whole planet is considered an Eva and the corkscrew black moon thing a giant entry plug.

Just for laughs I went looking at screenshots of Lilith from 1.11 to see if she there's a visible DSS choker. There isn't :P

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:58 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:HOLY SWEET FUCKING BAJEEZUS.

It would be useful to get a general overview of what this video is all about. Some basic translations would go a long way here.
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Postby thegoodson » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:35 pm

Looking at the images of the combining FoI's, some seem to be wadding up and elongating upwardly. While some are genuinely bigger, the panning shot of the roof shows what looks like a bunch mashed together.

Going by the fact that part of the shaft that Eva 13 descends is composed of a solid block of them, and those FoI's didn't merge together to form one big Eva, I wonder if some are forming the giant crosses we see on the horizon. Perhaps that's how the shaft to Nerv's sky HQ started. A giant cross hollowed out and broken into.

Or maybe when 3I was averted, the FoI's were in the process of creating Giant Eva's and hardened immediately into giant crosses, the same way you have the cross explosions when an Angel is defeated.
Large images of combined FoIs and Crosses  SPOILER: Show

Image

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:24 pm

That image was quite large, so I needed to add the spoiler tag.

View Original Postthegoodson wrote:Going by the fact that part of the shaft that Eva 13 descends is composed of a solid block of them, and those FoI's didn't merge together to form one big Eva, I wonder if some are forming the giant crosses we see on the horizon. Perhaps that's how the shaft to Nerv's sky HQ started. A giant cross hollowed out and broken into.

The upper portion of the main shaft appears to be the original one. The transition to the lower, FoI coated level is quite sharp. The shaft almost appears severed. Also, if you look carefully at the exterior image of the shaft, you can see that the its helical exterior extends almost down into the old geofront.
Shaft transition  SPOILER: Show

The shaft transition
[wkimg]File:Eva3-33_C1047b_main_shaft_transition.jpg[/wkimg]

The shaft exterior.
[wkimg width=207]File:Eva3-33 C0812B comp.jpg[/wkimg]


That said, I like the idea about the crosses being somehow related to the FoIs. They appear closely related to the shaft in any case. Though we also can't discount the fence seen below the Geofront. I would say that the crosses could be coated with FoIs rather than made of them entirely. (Though who could have made the crosses is beyond me).
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Postby wiser3754 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:43 am

The scene with the city encased with FOI's I've got one question to ask, Unit 01's armour at the spine is diamond and a few FOI's in the same scene have y shaped spines. Why is this?
And also, the pylons in the scene aren't shown correctly, they're just craggy rock looking. I thought these things were directly based on Unit 01, but I'm seeing inconsistences here. And before you denounce this part, yes, I know about the FOI's in the walls of the shaft below the lid are carbon copies of Unit 01, I'm talking about the ones on top.

Also, the cross shaped opening is inconsistent with the landscape. Is it supposed to be below or on the level as Tokyo-3? Because you see it both being below in the iris and on level with Tokyo-3.

Please answer then I'll be quiet.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:29 am

I'm not sure about the Y-shaped spines. Could you point out what you mean from a screenshot? There are a few here

You are certainly right about the pylons. While we are shown Eva-13 breaking off its pylons and growing the "pseudo-evolved" "wing-bud" ceramic versions, the FoIs by Lilith's head and on the main shaft still have their standard pylons. The FoI's outside are mostly, but not exclusively shown with pseudo evolved pylons. Perhaps we're looking at two distinct populations of FoIs here? Perhaps the MP Evas in the shaft -- the source of the skulls -- and FoI's simply emerging from core material outside.

One the Geofront, the entire structure seems to have collapsed into an enormous sink hole. I personally think this could be because the GUFO was removed from below it, but really it could have been any kind of cataclysm.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:11 am

I'm going back over the scene where Eva-13 and the Mk.09 ascend from the Geofront, and the area inside of the iris seems to only be slightly lower than everything else. It may just be a trick of perspective in that particular shot OMF mentioned that the area seems to be sunk so deep.

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Postby gchristnsn » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:43 am

The reference to "Apollo's Song" manga was requested, here it is:

SPOILER: Show
Image


I think, there are some parallels with the epicenter of the third impact (fertilization by FOIs).
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Postby wiser3754 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:51 pm

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:I'm not sure about the Y-shaped spines. Could you point out what you mean from a screenshot? There are a few here

You are certainly right about the pylons. While we are shown Eva-13 breaking off its pylons and growing the "pseudo-evolved" "wing-bud" ceramic versions, the FoIs by Lilith's head and on the main shaft still have their standard pylons. The FoI's outside are mostly, but not exclusively shown with pseudo evolved pylons. Perhaps we're looking at two distinct populations of FoIs here? Perhaps the MP Evas in the shaft -- the source of the skulls -- and FoI's simply emerging from core material outside.

One the Geofront, the entire structure seems to have collapsed into an enormous sink hole. I personally think this could be because the GUFO was removed from below it, but really it could have been any kind of cataclysm.


In the truth scene where Kaworu says "It sacrificed older life so create new life blessed with the Fruit of life", the shot of the FOI from roof level, I can see two FOI with y-shaped spines, one is close up on the right and the other is further back to the left. Also about their pylons, they look like cragged rock, so you don't know whether or not it's EVA-01 or something else entirely?
But most likely, it's just unfinished FOI, hence the inconsistencies.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:31 pm

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:In the truth scene where Kaworu says "It sacrificed older life so create new life blessed with the Fruit of life", the shot of the FOI from roof level, I can see two FOI with y-shaped spines, one is close up on the right and the other is further back to the left.Also about their pylons, they look like cragged rock, so you don't know whether or not it's EVA-01 or something else entirely?

You're right, these FoI's show significant differences to the more fully formed models in the Main shaft and Command Center. They even show variation from each other.
FoI Composite Shot  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg]Eva3-33_C0805A_comp.jpg[/wkimg]

On the matter of their "rocklike" appearance, I think this results from the FoIs being "formed" out of the "core" material which coats the area. The core is coming to life in a similar manner to the multiple Rei's seen emerging from Zeruel's core in 2.0, and the giant 12th Angel core in 3.0.
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Postby wiser3754 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:45 am

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:The core is coming to life in a similar manner to the multiple Rei's seen emerging from Zeruel's core in 2.0, and the giant 12th Angel core in 3.0.


My problem with the FOI is Shinji was making an image of Rei from Zeruel's core, why isn't the FOI based on her then?
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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:06 am

Because at the moment the FoI were born, Rei was absorbed by EVA-01 and thus was EVA-01?
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:03 am

Isn't it the other way around? Shinji was absorbed by Eva-01 in an effort to reach for Rei. His desire pull her out through cores, or dimensions, or whatever, is translated into a mass of FoI's emerging from core material, desperately reaching for Lilith's head. Maybe.
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