Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water

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cyharding
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Postby cyharding » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:43 pm

O_o Uh...is this supposed to be from a dojinshi or something?

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Postby THE Hal E. Burton 9000 » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:51 am

^oh gee, ya think? :leekspin:
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Postby cyharding » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:02 pm

No, I didn't really think at all. Sorry about that (the emotocon still stands though).

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Postby Ironfoot » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:02 am

Xard wrote:The thing is that Nadia and Jean are based on how Anno was as 14 years old. Nadia got all of his negative characteristics* and Jean his positive characteristics, they're yin and yang of 14 years old Hideaki.


Yeah, that's one way to look at it. Male equals positive and female equals negative in general, though. It's more interesting to see how Anno later split up Nadia's personality to form Shinji/Asuka/Rei in Evangelion.

Merridian wrote:Captain Nemo's coat is modeled after the captain's from Space Battleship Yamato, and that wicked collar pops up in petty much everything Leiji Matsumoto touches. :lol: I think it's less Gainax recycling ideas as it is Gainax paying homage to the "classic" stuff, especially in TTGL/Simon's case.


It's all over the Macross series too, as far as Global and Wilder are concerned. I guess it's some kind of undying tradition in sci-fi anime.

Also, since this hasn't been posted here yet, this site kicked my ass as far as comparisons are concerned. The most interesting for me was

SPOILER: Show
the comparison between Neo and the Evangelions themselves. Both are part machine part flesh, both have umbilical cables, and both can be controlled by a soul within it. The dialogue comparisons were interesting too.

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Postby Marzan » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:52 pm

Ironfoot"][quote="Xard wrote:
Also, since this hasn't been posted here yet, this site kicked my ass as far as comparisons are concerned. The most interesting for me was

SPOILER: Show
the comparison between Neo and the Evangelions themselves. Both are part machine part flesh, both have umbilical cables, and both can be controlled by a soul within it. The dialogue comparisons were interesting too.


Thanks for the link. Great find. And you're absolutely right about the comparison! I would have never thought of it...
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Postby Xard » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:34 am

Ironfoot wrote:
Xard wrote:The thing is that Nadia and Jean are based on how Anno was as 14 years old. Nadia got all of his negative characteristics* and Jean his positive characteristics, they're yin and yang of 14 years old Hideaki.


Yeah, that's one way to look at it. Male equals positive and female equals negative in general, though. It's more interesting to see how Anno later split up Nadia's personality to form Shinji/Asuka/Rei in Evangelion.


Yes! I've personally been drumming for ages the fact it's not Shinji only who is Anno proxy: really, the whole cast is. Asuka inherited a lot of his traits too, as did Misato (the "mature" Anno went mostly to Misato & Gendo, respectively) and Rei too (most obviously his vegetarianism).

Therefore it really isn't case of NGE characters being based on Nadia characters: it's just that characters from both are based on Anno - NGE just did it with far more complexity and depth :lol:

(Apparently the Nadia/Jean being sides of Anno comes from interview, actually. So it isn't my own speculation)

Ironfoot wrote:
Merridian wrote:Captain Nemo's coat is modeled after the captain's from Space Battleship Yamato, and that wicked collar pops up in petty much everything Leiji Matsumoto touches. :lol: I think it's less Gainax recycling ideas as it is Gainax paying homage to the "classic" stuff, especially in TTGL/Simon's case.


It's all over the Macross series too, as far as Global and Wilder are concerned. I guess it's some kind of undying tradition in sci-fi anime.


Yeah, it originates from Yamato. Nemo is dead ringer for Captain Global though ^_^

Ironfoot wrote:Also, since this hasn't been posted here yet, this site kicked my ass as far as comparisons are concerned. The most interesting for me was

SPOILER: Show
the comparison between Neo and the Evangelions themselves. Both are part machine part flesh, both have umbilical cables, and both can be controlled by a soul within it. The dialogue comparisons were interesting too.


Agreed. Damn, I was sure I had posted this link here at least once... oh well

Yup, it's all very interesting. Especially all the "prequel eva" stuff (as in sense that Anno & co returned again to many same elements in NGE).
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby JTurner » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:24 pm

Sorry to bump this up, but I confess to being a huge fan of this show, particularly Jean--I just love his sweet, caring personality and compassion and how it slowly transforms Nadia. The reason I was drawn to it was because I heard there were parallells between this show and Hayao Miyazaki's Castle in the Sky. I think the movie is the better of the two, but Nadia does have its points of interest. I like the characters and their relationships as well as the sense of adventure. The opening eight episodes in particular, are my favorite of the show. They are definitely the stuff of absolute excellence.

The "Nautilus" episodes are a little slower, but there are eps there that really stand out for me: Episodes 11, 13-19, and 21 and 22, in particular, are all superb, carefully cultivated pieces of entertainment. The final five episodes are similarly good.

On the other hand, it really, really, really is unfortunate that it suffers from such a spectacularly hideous second half. I particularly hated the Lincoln Island and Africa episodes (23-27, and 32-34); they really destroyed the characters' personalities, and were pretty poor altogether, period. I think those episodes really should have been cut, as they do nothing to move the plot forward and only succeed in taking any affection one may have for the characters completely away. That's how much I despise these episodes.

Only exception: episode 31 and parts of 30. Those are the only worthwhile ones.

So I'm pretty mixed about this series. On one hand, I really, really love it for the first 22 episodes and the final five, but on the other, I absolutely detest the middle twelve.

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Postby Marzan » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:41 am

View Original PostJTurner wrote:.

On the other hand, it really, really, really is unfortunate that it suffers from such a spectacularly hideous second half. I particularly hated the Lincoln Island and Africa episodes (23-27, and 32-34); they really destroyed the characters' personalities, and were pretty poor altogether, period. I think those episodes really should have been cut, as they do nothing to move the plot forward and only succeed in taking any affection one may have for the characters completely away. That's how much I despise these episodes.

Only exception: episode 31 and parts of 30. Those are the only worthwhile ones.

So I'm pretty mixed about this series. On one hand, I really, really love it for the first 22 episodes and the final five, but on the other, I absolutely detest the middle twelve.


yeah, that's the infamous "Island arc" which is absolutely terrible and adds very little to the story. As far as I understand, they were not an original part of the story and were added at the producers insistence when the series became very successful. I also believe that Hideaki Anno didn't direct them himself
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Postby JTurner » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:13 am

Yep, that's exactly what happened. I even heard that Anno would have disregarded all of those episodes except 30 and 31 if he had the choice of doing the show all over again.

My biggest problem with the filler arc wasn't just the animation but at how spectacularly the characters were derailed; I felt that they were no longer acting like themselves.

I was especially irritated
SPOILER: Show
when after Nadia admits that Jean is more important to her than the Blue Water in ep. 31, she suddenly takes a 180 turn on him in the Africa arc at the sight of some stranger she hardly knows.
Considering the nature of her character, this felt both very out of place and insulting; it also only succeeds in destroying her personality, so that by the time the show returns at episode 35, one no longer cares for her. Hey, even in the "Nautilus Story" compilation, all three of these Africa episodes (the singing one included) are skipped. I guess even Anno thought they really ruined her character. They even ruined Grandis' backstory by the monodimensional portrayal of her ex-fiance.

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Postby Zeruel » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:59 am

Ive never watched this series as a Eva fan would I enjoy and should I look into watching this and what was Anno's involvement with the show?? Also I know this might be off topic but what was his involvement in Gunbuster Ova??
Why in God's name would I wanna keep writing about characters whose central preoccupation are weed and dick and fart jokes? I mean, ya gotta grow man. Don't you ever want anything more for yourself? I know this poor hapless son of a bitch does. I look into his sorry doe eyes and I just, I see a man crying out. He's crying out, "When Lord? When the fuck can your servant ditch this foul-mouthed little chucklehead to whom I am a constant victim of his folly, so much so that it prevents him from ever getting to kiss a girl! Fuck! When, Lord when? WHENS GONNA BE MY TIME?

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:21 am

:google: =>

writer/director for both
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Postby Zeruel » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:00 pm

Well I did and found opposing information so I asked here to find a more concrete answer. Did he direct and write all of Nadia Ive read through the infamous Google it was only a certain amount of episodes?
Why in God's name would I wanna keep writing about characters whose central preoccupation are weed and dick and fart jokes? I mean, ya gotta grow man. Don't you ever want anything more for yourself? I know this poor hapless son of a bitch does. I look into his sorry doe eyes and I just, I see a man crying out. He's crying out, "When Lord? When the fuck can your servant ditch this foul-mouthed little chucklehead to whom I am a constant victim of his folly, so much so that it prevents him from ever getting to kiss a girl! Fuck! When, Lord when? WHENS GONNA BE MY TIME?

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:50 pm

View Original PostZeruel wrote:only a certain amount of episodes?
Most of them -- apart from the "Island arc". See earlier on this page.
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Postby JTurner » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:56 pm

View Original PostZeruel wrote:Well I did and found opposing information so I asked here to find a more concrete answer. Did he direct and write all of Nadia Ive read through the infamous Google it was only a certain amount of episodes?


The only episodes Anno directed were episodes 1-22 and 35-39. Everything else inbetween is directed by Shinji Higuchi. Anno admitted he only would have saved 30 & 31 of those episodes.

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Postby Zeruel » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:35 pm

If I decide to watch it can I skip over those episodes or do I need to watch all of them.
Why in God's name would I wanna keep writing about characters whose central preoccupation are weed and dick and fart jokes? I mean, ya gotta grow man. Don't you ever want anything more for yourself? I know this poor hapless son of a bitch does. I look into his sorry doe eyes and I just, I see a man crying out. He's crying out, "When Lord? When the fuck can your servant ditch this foul-mouthed little chucklehead to whom I am a constant victim of his folly, so much so that it prevents him from ever getting to kiss a girl! Fuck! When, Lord when? WHENS GONNA BE MY TIME?

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Postby cyharding » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:15 pm

You can skip them, but it is a good idea to watch episodes 30 & 31 as they factor in for the climax of the series

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:46 pm

View Original PostZeruel wrote:If I decide to watch it can I skip over those episodes or do I need to watch all of them.

You can try to skip them if you want. But, there actually IS some sort of important information being conveyed in those episodes, that, if you were to skip, would feel like "Huh? How'd we get here all of a sudden?" It's slow going, and does scream of filler, but it's important.

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Postby Ironfoot » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:10 am

I thought about skipping the island arc altogether on my first run, but decided to grin and bear it, keeping in mind that those ep's are mostly not what Anno originally intended. Despite that, the story is still supposed to flow together no matter how bad it may seem, so while skipping those episodes won't make you miss much, it will leave you wondering where you are as FilmFan mentioned.

This thread made me think about a "Rebuild of Nadia" again as this series could use it far more than Evangelion currently does IMO. The chances of that happening are slim to none, but one can always hope. :)

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Postby JTurner » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:14 am

Important? The only episodes that do emerge as significantly important are only episodes 30 (well, about a good fifth of it) and 31. The rest of those episodes (23-29 and 32-34) are absolutely unnecessary and only succeed in getting in the way of the main story. That they're also badly made and turn everybody into cartoonish mockeries of their former selves (and destroy their relationships) are even bigger problems. I'm sorry, but the story flows a whole lot better without these episodes. Hey, when I saw the Nautilus Story compilation and how it skillfully cut down this arc to fifteen minutes, keeping only a few minutes of eps. 28 and 30, a few seconds of ep. 23, and cut down ep. 31 in half, it only showed me that the show plays much stronger without them. (Hey, I've always even dreamed of ideas of how these episodes could be skipped; looking at the plots I was like, "I can come up with better stories than the crap these guys came up with!".)
Last edited by JTurner on Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Merridian » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:46 am

First time I watched Nadia I mostly fast-forwarded through the Island & Africa eps. I watched eps 30 & 31 in their entireties, but that was it. I tried watching the rest of that arc as well but I just didn't see the point.


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