Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water

A forum for discussion of other Gainax works, people belonging or related to Gainax and the non-Eva projects they've worked on, media that reference or have distinct parallels to Eva, etc.

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Postby JTurner » Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:52 pm

View Original PostChrad wrote:Sadly, there is no 'perfect Nadia experience'. It's frustratingly incomplete.
I recommend you watch 1-22, 30, 31, then 35 to 39, and that's it.
Nothing in the other episodes has any relevance to the ongoing plot.


There is definitely something to be said about Nadia feeling like an "incomplete" show. Even without the atrocious filler episodes, there are still some pieces of the story that feel very underdeveloped and/or rushed. If they really wanted this to be a 39-episode show, they should've provided some more interesting clues about the Neo-Atlanteans as well as Nadia and Nemo's relationship to them (hey, a four-episode backstory about how Gargoyle and Nemo became enemies and overthrew Tartessos would have been far more compelling than the obnoxious and unnecessary garbage the writers came up with).

This show really needs to be given the "Rebirth" treatment. Seriously.

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Postby Ironfoot » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:13 pm

View Original PostJTurner wrote:This show really needs to be given the "Rebirth" treatment. Seriously.


Yes and this would be the right thing to do, but given Anno's current estrangement with Gainax, I'm not sure if its even possible. Anno could easily transform this into the show he really wanted. I would love to see this rise out of the ashes that was the Nadia movie, but given the climate right now it doesn't seem likely.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:27 pm

View Original PostIronfoot wrote:Yes and this would be the right thing to do, but given Anno's current estrangement with Gainax, I'm not sure if its even possible. Anno could easily transform this into the show he really wanted. I would love to see this rise out of the ashes that was the Nadia movie, but given the climate right now it doesn't seem likely.

But are there any recent news about "Anno's estrangement" with Gainax?
I wasn't between the ones who didn't believe it at all but I wasn't sure about it either, lately I've been hearing about it again quite often, did I miss something?
So let’s make a wish.
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Postby Chrad » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:04 am

Nadia is infinitely more suited to the movie series format than Evangelion.
If Anno and co revisited it today, the results would surely be spectacular.

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Postby Ironfoot » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:17 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:But are there any recent news about "Anno's estrangement" with Gainax?
I wasn't between the ones who didn't believe it at all but I wasn't sure about it either, lately I've been hearing about it again quite often, did I miss something?


Most of it is from this link here: http://www.japanator.com/rumor-gainax-and-evangelion-remakes-splitting-up--15139.phtml

If Gainax still owns the Nadia IP, then a Rebuild of the series is almost impossible unless Anno can somehow transfer the rights to himself or Khara.

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Postby Xard » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:20 pm

GAINAX and Anno split up for logistical reasons, there's no ill will here. Back in 2006 Anno wanted GAINAX next do Rebuild whereas Yamaga wanted GAINAX's next production be Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. So they decided Anno would create new production studio to handle Rebuild (GAINAX possibly couldn't have done it on its own while also working on TTGL etc.) with core GAINAX personell to the project (Tsurumaki for example) transferring over.
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Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby Ironfoot » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:48 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:GAINAX and Anno split up for logistical reasons, there's no ill will here. Back in 2006 Anno wanted GAINAX next do Rebuild whereas Yamaga wanted GAINAX's next production be Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. So they decided Anno would create new production studio to handle Rebuild (GAINAX possibly couldn't have done it on its own while also working on TTGL etc.) with core GAINAX personell to the project (Tsurumaki for example) transferring over.


Back when Khara first formed, yes. But that doesn't explain why 3.0 hasn't been released yet, unless the rumors are true.

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Postby Ornette » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:38 pm

Carl Horn weighed in on the matter over here in response to the Japanator article. I'm inclined to believe him and that the whole thing is just blown out of proportion rumors. Intellectual property doesn't just magically change hands and if, as the rumor suggests, GAINAX is going out of business because of the loss of Evangelion licensing rights, they wouldn't give it up to a company called "Ground Works".

This discussion should really be continued in the Gainax and Anno splitting up over New Movie Edition? thread though.

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Postby Kendrix » Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:44 am

When I watch it, I usually watch the beginning, skip to ep. 31 after the work of art that is 22 and then go to the tartessos episodes immediately. (I TRIED to watch the insland arc but I gave up once it became completely incoherent. NO. Just NO.)

I saw Nadia BEFORE I saw evangelion and I absolutely loved it as a kid.
But instead of other thigs I liked as a kid, like, Sailor Moon, I could rewatch it and notice a lot of new things I simply hadn't understood back then and have a completely new experience.

It may not be as great as EVA but it has the same feeling of depth - and I think a lot of backstory remaining as allusions just added to its epic feel.
You can tell its made by the same ppl - the use of corridors/cool tech, the ancient mysteries, the twisted relationships (Just think of Electra!), important characters I liked very much only appearing at the end and doing heroic sacrifices, po´ndering of ther human condition, the luv of skintight suits...

Oh, and Jean IS Kensuke.
And Nadia's all three NERV Children roled into one. The Daddy issues and the low self esteem (Shinji), the birtchyness and tsundere-ness as a facade (Asuka) the vegetarism and the apocalypse maiden scared of her true self (Rei)
Tough I think she resembles Asuka most of them all.

It's somewhat funny. Writers tend to give their characters their own quirks, so Anno gave his vegetarism.
In Rei's case, it's more that she simply doesn't like the stuff, while Nadia is your textbook militant veggie. It's funny to see Nadia defending her vegetarism with the same behaviour that Asuka uses to tell Rei it's stupid in 2.0.
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Postby JTurner » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:55 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:When I watch it, I usually watch the beginning, skip to ep. 31 after the work of art that is 22 and then go to the tartessos episodes immediately. (I TRIED to watch the insland arc but I gave up once it became completely incoherent. NO. Just NO.)


And that's exactly how Nadia should be viewed. That's the story Gainax wanted to tell. Simply put, those island/Africa episodes weren't supposed to exist. At all. (Well, maybe parts of episode 30 and 31 are an exception, but still.)

I'd recommend checking out Anno's own edit of Nadia: The Nautilus Story. It cuts out the filler episodes and makes the story much more tighter and consistent. (Although it DOES omit some parts of the better episodes.)

Oh, and Jean IS Kensuke.
And Nadia's all three NERV Children roled into one. The Daddy issues and the low self esteem (Shinji), the birtchyness and tsundere-ness as a facade (Asuka) the vegetarism and the apocalypse maiden scared of her true self (Rei)
Tough I think she resembles Asuka most of them all.


I don't know if I'd go quite that far in terms of Nadia resembling mostly Asuka. If you judge her by how unbearable she gets in the filler arc, then yes. But episodes 1-22? I saw her as mostly Shinji/Mei and only occasionally Asuka. I do think she could have been a much more consistent character, although I attribute that fault to the fact that the writers didn't know where they wanted to go with her during the filler arc.

Jean is definitely my favorite character in the show. I love his generosity and kindness. It really is no wonder that Nadia gradually falls for him and is even transformed by his love. And at least in the episodes when the show is on target, she DOES go out of her way to show she cares about him. Even when she takes out her fury on Jean, she realizes that he doesn't deserve it and often apologizes. (She even encourages him to build a gyrocopter to bring him out of depression.) Yes, there are moments where she does express rages (notably at Nemo), but on the whole she's a much more sympathetic person in the canonical episodes 1-22 than the psychotic maniac eps. 23-34 changed her into.

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Postby COACH » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:46 am

View Original PostJTurner wrote:I'd recommend checking out Anno's own edit of Nadia: The Nautilus Story. It cuts out the filler episodes and makes the story much more tighter and consistent. (Although it DOES omit some parts of the better episodes.)

I've heard about that before; wasn't it only ever released on Japanese Laserdisk, though? I suppose there are probably torrents, but I'm gonna watch the show legally, at least the first time. I hear the entire island thing was cut down to about 15 minutes? That's awesome.
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Postby JTurner » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:32 pm

View Original PostCOACH wrote:I've heard about that before; wasn't it only ever released on Japanese Laserdisk, though? I suppose there are probably torrents, but I'm gonna watch the show legally, at least the first time. I hear the entire island thing was cut down to about 15 minutes? That's awesome.


Yes, it was cut down. Even Anno didn't like what had happened to the show. The whole Africa/singing episodes aren't even included (if you count them as part of the island arc). And yeah, it was only on LD.

The NAUTILUS STORY also seems to eliminate the "vegetarian" aspect of Nadia's personality. I thought that this could have made for an interesting part of Nadia's character, but in the island arc they totally sabotage it by having her be a maniac about it. I also thought it was pretty OoC that Jean would try to encourage her to try some meat; I mean, sure, he doesn't understand why she's like this -- after all, she never really told him why she is that way -- but just as Nadia's personality was hampered, so was Jean's. I just couldn't see him sneaking meat in her food during the canonical episodes.

I always saw the show as Nadia being transformed from an angry, antisocial loner to a caring, trusting young woman on account of Jean's compassion and loyalty. The NAUTILUS STORY makes her less troubled, though, so that aspect doesn't seem to come across well in the compilation.

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Postby Kendrix » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:23 pm

View Original PostJTurner wrote:
I don't know if I'd go quite that far in terms of Nadia resembling mostly Asuka. If you judge her by how unbearable she gets in the filler arc, then yes. But episodes 1-22? I saw her as mostly Shinji/Mei and only occasionally Asuka. I do think she could have been a much more consistent character, although I attribute that fault to the fact that the writers didn't know where they wanted to go with her during the filler arc.

.


I wasn't judging her by the filler arc, as I prevbiously started, I hardly watched any of it. She gave more of an Asuka vibe off to me - Asuka isn't THAT terrible before she starts to lose her battles.
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Postby Xard » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:47 pm

Jean consists of traits Anno considered good in him when he was 14 year old.

Nadia consists of traits Anno considered bad in him when he was 14 year old.

(which gives the hilarious impression that Anno considers his vegetarianism "bad" part of himself :lol: )

This is why Nadia is Shinji/Asuka (esp. Asuka) amalgation.
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
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Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby JTurner » Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:22 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:Jean consists of traits Anno considered good in him when he was 14 year old.

Nadia consists of traits Anno considered bad in him when he was 14 year old.

(which gives the hilarious impression that Anno considers his vegetarianism "bad" part of himself :lol: )

This is why Nadia is Shinji/Asuka (esp. Asuka) amalgation.


I really don't think being a vegetarian is something to be ashamed of at all; however, if he is referring to trying to impose that view on other people, putting them down for thinking otherwise as Nadia does, well then, yes, that COULD be a very objectionable trait. I'm all for respecting differences, but to put down others who aren't and for making them feel like dirt... that's something else altogether.

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Postby Carl Horn » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:54 pm

Actually, Gainax never owned any rights to Nadia; NHK (as in Welcome to the) did, together with Sogovision and Toho. The fact Nadia was a big hit (not as big as Eva, but big) yet Gainax didn't profit from it is what made them insist on co-ownership of Evangelion before they made it.

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Postby Xard » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:00 pm

View Original PostCarl Horn wrote:Actually, Gainax never owned any rights to Nadia; NHK (as in Welcome to the) did, together with Sogovision and Toho. The fact Nadia was a big hit (not as big as Eva, but big) yet Gainax didn't profit from it is what made them insist on co-ownership of Evangelion before they made it.


I remember reading that back in the day Gunbuster was one of the biggest selling (if not THE biggest selling) OVAs of all time...yet GAINAX behaves like NGE was first time they really managed to turn profit (NHK snubbed Nadia moneys, infamously). Did all the money go in padding for the commercial disaster that was Honneamise? I think it was the reason Gunbuster's production was started in the first place, after all
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby Ironfoot » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:03 pm

View Original PostCarl Horn wrote:Actually, Gainax never owned any rights to Nadia; NHK (as in Welcome to the) did, together with Sogovision and Toho. The fact Nadia was a big hit (not as big as Eva, but big) yet Gainax didn't profit from it is what made them insist on co-ownership of Evangelion before they made it.


Huh, I did not know that. That does explain a lot of things. Though, now it looks more unlikely a Rebuild will ever be made.

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Postby Carl Horn » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:45 pm

My understanding is that Gunbuster was a real success, but Bandai owned Gunbuster, just as they owned Honneamise. So you might say that Gainax didn't have to deal with the massive medium-term financial loss Honneamise represented (the movie eventually made its money back in September of 1994, after the LD box set release), but they also didn't profit from Gunbuster's success.

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Postby Masterblast » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:04 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:yeah, Anno was genius director from the beginning. Nadia is another great example of Anno's talent, but his creative control was somewhat limited due to show being watched by plenty of kids. Anno, for example, apparently wanted some grimdark shit in Nadia that never was made...

And, of course, there's the horrible Island Arc that was not directed by him. But apart form that it's great. Great shame, without Island Arc Nadia would be one of the best classic anime titles out there...now it's "only" great classic title


And thats where the Nautilus Story film cut comes in.


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