Gone to Guf. Back for Final. -- Love Gen & Fuyu

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Mt Olympus
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Postby Mt Olympus » Tue May 14, 2013 5:23 am

Just wanted to share some images I took of the Chamber of Guf with the thing in it.

http://i.imgur.com/3RUGpWm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/j7vBZFr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SLhqE9Q.jpg

You can see part of the tesseract under Unit 13's armpit in the second image.

Here is one from 2.22. Chamber of Guf still seems to be open or sealed closed by those cross things. Maybe thats where the thing came from.
http://i.imgur.com/w7cqM0E.jpg

Also, it took me a while to realize it was six sided and not just 2 really big tesseracts.
Last edited by Mt Olympus on Tue May 14, 2013 5:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Tue May 14, 2013 5:26 am

Maybe Nerv has been using that one all along. It would lessen Gendo's reasons for initiating 4I to move Nerv HQ into the Guf, unless he could perhaps not move HQ otherwise.
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Postby one-eyed » Tue May 14, 2013 5:37 am

If the "Guf Space" (I like the term, Giji Shinka!) is similar to the Dirac Sea, then it may be an infinite region. Causing impacts should attract Guf Ark/Construct/Ship/Thing and make it easier to reach it. Since it should be easier to operate it and get out of that dimension.
This is all hypothetical, but it is really very interesting and fun to theorize!

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Postby Mt Olympus » Tue May 14, 2013 5:51 am

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:(Do we ever get a Sun shot in 3.33?)


http://i.imgur.com/wjDLF1D.jpg

This is the only shot I can recall from 3.33 depicting what looks like the sun. I don't even want to start talking about how strange the lighting in this scene is, given the location of the Sun and the illumination of the red half. I think it's just for the artwork.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Tue May 14, 2013 6:46 am

View Original PostMt Olympus wrote:http://i.imgur.com/wjDLF1D.jpg

This is the only shot I can recall from 3.33 depicting what looks like the sun. I don't even want to start talking about how strange the lighting in this scene is, given the location of the Sun and the illumination of the red half. I think it's just for the artwork.


Apparently the Nemesis Series Code 4B uses the metallic threads which compromise its body to reflect sunlight for its energy projection attacks, so the Sun still seems to be giving off light.
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Postby BrikHaus » Tue May 14, 2013 10:07 am

Just wanted to drop in and say thanks to OMF for another interesting thread.
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Postby cloudxsolder » Tue May 28, 2013 7:15 pm

Bear with me while I vomit my theory on the whole movie and then relate it to this guff theory.

For years people have speculated that rebuild is the event of going back in time at the end of NGE instrumentality (Nothing new here, I know this). At the end of the day, what is the sole purpose of instrumentality? It's Immortality right? That's what I got from it. Has anyone ever speculated that both are one and the same thing? What better way to live on forever, than to constantly repeat a set period of time over and over again. Sounds a bit boring to me, but not if you’re never actually
aware of it.

(I wrote this part for the Kaworu thread but I never posted it, but it fits here kinda)
I believe Kaworu intentions are nothing more than to break the cycle. He's aware (on some level) that this constant repeat is going on. I believe he was acting in his own interests which where in fact, the best interests of Shinji - Which would one day be stopping this repeating set period of time and getting on with life. The significance of the 'piano dialogue' hints at this. 'One day, we will get this all right after going over and over, finally get it perfect’ (thus breaking the cycle). How many times has this happened? God knows. MAYBE kawuro knows. It could be the 2nd time round, it could the 100th. (NGE would be the first time round) Also, we're dealing with a super intelligent being here. Regarding his deep thinking time in the entry plug followed by a small break down - Trying to figure out what was going through his head at that point would be beyond our comprehension. I think (semi-contradicting my last statement) he was thinking about the countless scenarios/ alternate realities that lead him to this point of failure. Each time he is SO sure he has it right, but something always manages to impede on his progress.

Ok Ok, so now Gendo in Guff. Guff is a place far beyond time and space whereby everything happening in our universe would have no affect on it. WHAT IF, he plans to wait, patiently, until the next ‘instrumentality’ occurs, time resets back to an unknown point in time (probably prior to 2nd impact, and keep in mind this has no effect on them) waits for 2nd impact to occur and BAM!!!
He flys out the hole, and re-unites with a still alive Yui!

It's a crazy theory, but a lot of fun to think about.

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Postby pwhodges » Wed May 29, 2013 2:16 am

Wouldn't you then end up with two Gendous - the one for the present loop, and the one from the previous loop (with added memories of the future!)? Or do you mean he just has awareness of the loop (which didn't make Yuki happy in Endless Eight)?
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Postby cloudxsolder » Wed May 29, 2013 2:47 am

My theory has a lot of holes lol. The 2 gendos (and Fuyustiki's) being one of them. (The forums will rip me apart for even suggesting somehting so stupid and far fetched haha) It's just something I reflected on a few weeks back and had a lot of fun with it.

What is the endless eight?

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Postby pwhodges » Wed May 29, 2013 3:19 am

Endless Eight is a time loop in the second season of Haruhi Suzumiya, which spent eight episodes reanimating the same actions with just random differences (eight loops out of thousands in the novel), ending with Kyon making a different decision (about holiday revision) which breaks it. One character - Yuki - is outside the loop, and so consciously lives through the whole lot, but doesn't talk about it; others become somewhat aware of it near the end of some cycles (not all). Having eight almost identical episodes was seen by many fans as a huge waste of resources for something really boring; but viewed in an appropriate frame of mind they can be quite powerfully evocative as well.
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed May 29, 2013 3:27 am

View Original Postcloudxsolder wrote:What is the endless eight?

If I recall correctly, it's an arc in the novels/anime adaptation of "The melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" were the characters are trapped in a time loop of two week, and only one character retains the memories of the precedent cycles(Yuki, the one pwhodges is talking about).
I think that the cycle gets broken after thousands of iterations and Yuki becoming more than a little unhinged.

EDIT : well, what pwhodges said. -o-;
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Postby cloudxsolder » Wed May 29, 2013 3:40 am

Ah kk cool.
Never heard of it, but yes, I guess it would be similar to that's haha.

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Postby Charsi » Wed May 29, 2013 8:19 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Endless Eight is a time loop in the second season of Haruhi Suzumiya, which spent eight episodes reanimating the same actions with just random differences (eight loops out of thousands in the novel), ending with Kyon making a different decision (about holiday revision) which breaks it. One character - Yuki - is outside the loop, and so consciously lives through the whole lot, but doesn't talk about it; others become somewhat aware of it near the end of some cycles (not all). Having eight almost identical episodes was seen by many fans as a huge waste of resources for something really boring; but viewed in an appropriate frame of mind they can be quite powerfully evocative as well.


The point of EE was to make you sympathise with Yuki (who is the Rei Ayanami trope of that particular series). It also helps you understand the contributing factors to major events that occur later. I'm avoiding spoilers as much as possible.

That doesn't seem to be in the cards for our favorite space Jesus.

Ultimately we don't really see the pyramid go into Guf, so there's no telling if Gendo and Fuyutsuki "escaped" the loop even if there is one going on.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed May 29, 2013 8:27 am

I highly doubt that there's a time loop, mainly because time travel isn't a big thing in Eva (outside of Quantum!Rei) and the changes between NGE and NME are much larger than those in Endless Eight. The idea of the accidental creation of a dystopian timeline kind of reminds me of Steins;Gate, although we also don't have any proof of actual time travel within the series outside of, again, Quantum!Rei (and she doesn't do anything other than stare creepily at people). EoE ended without any time travel and I doubt Shinji and Asuka could cobble one up out of sand and LCL. In NME there are no (or very few) indications that the characters acknowledge or briefly register a time loop (they don't feel deja vu, even in 1.0 which was basically a rehash of the first few episodes of NGE).

If it turned out that NME is one of several NGE world lines and Kaworu has been leaping back in time to change things using a Time Leap Machine every time he fails to get a Kaworu x Shinji End, that wouldn't surprise me, though.

Getting back on topic, do we actually hear anything about the Guf in NME? We only hear a bit about it in NGE and the only thing that we seem to be told in NME is that the big vortex leads to Guf and that the mysterious white orb and crosses are inside. No characters actually seem to mention it in dialogue, either.
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Postby Reichu » Wed May 29, 2013 8:36 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:No characters actually seem to mention it in dialogue, either.

Aside from the times that Kaworu and Mari say "Door of Guf", surely.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed May 29, 2013 8:37 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Aside from the times that Kaworu and Mari say "Door of Guf", surely.


Forgot about that -o-; . Sorry. But we don't actually hear any mentions of the chamber itself or what's inside it, do we?
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed May 29, 2013 8:40 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:I highly doubt that there's a time loop, mainly because time travel isn't a big thing in Eva (outside of Quantum!Rei) and the changes between NGE and NME are much larger than those in Endless Eight. The idea of the accidental creation of a dystopian timeline kind of reminds me of Steins;Gate, although we also don't have any proof of actual time travel within the series outside of, again, Quantum!Rei (and she doesn't do anything other than stare creepily at people). EoE ended without any time travel and I doubt Shinji and Asuka could cobble one up out of sand and LCL. In NME there are no (or very few) indications that the characters acknowledge or briefly register a time loop (they don't feel deja vu, even in 1.0 which was basically a rehash of the first few episodes of NGE).

If it turned out that NME is one of several NGE world lines and Kaworu has been leaping back in time to change things using a Time Leap Machine every time he fails to get a Kaworu x Shinji End, that wouldn't surprise me, though.

Besides, even a time leap can't explain some of the major differences between NGE and NME : the 4 ADAMs, the differences in the character's traits, Asuka's name change, Mari's existence as well as the Angel Sealing Runes or the Beast Mode, SEELE being immortal beings instead of a bunch of old mystical weirdos...

Before 3.0 I was a big fan of the Time Loop theory especially because of the Red Sea, the strange chalk outline at the beginning of 1.0, the giant bloodstain in the Moon and especially Kaworu's comment about how this time he's gonna make Shinji happy.
But now with 3.0 we know that an Impact can easily cause the devastation of a level of the red sea(as the third did the same to the ground!), the chalk outline still isn't explained and the script of 2.0 revealed that the giant bloodstain comes from 2I and also explain what one of the ADAMs and the spear of Cassius were doing there.(on a side not they got lucky : had 2I happened earlier or later, both the ADAM and the spears would be lost in space!)

The only thing I could see is that Kaworu is a dimensional traveller, and decided to travel from dimension to dimension to bring happiness to every version of Shinji that needs it. Judging by his comment, so far he seems to do a poor job! :lol:
Although that doesn't explain the "Kaworu coffins" in the Moon...
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Charsi » Wed May 29, 2013 8:57 am

If there is a "loop" it would have to encompass 2I as well - and if you look at the differences between EoE and the black moon that rises in 3.33, it would have to basically be a near total universe reboot, making it essentially meaningless. If anything it comes back to the dimensional idea which somewhat hilariously ties in with the SDAT tape deck number as a divergence meter.

Trying to get back to topic: so, those things around Guf are tesseracts, not crosses as we thought. How many are there, two? Four? I can't tell but I can only see two. And what's Eva-01 locked inside at the start of 3.33? A tesseract.

During all of those shots of Eva 13 in the sky, do we ever see the pyramid move upwards? I don't think so. As I recall Eva 13 falls down PAST the pyramid after Kaworu spears it and explodes, so if anything while the impact is ending the pyramid is (at best) still moving slowly upward.

I just don't see when Gendo/Fuyutusuki actually went into Guf. All we've got to go on is not clearly seeing the floating pyramid after 4I ends.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed May 29, 2013 9:06 am

Are the tesseracts connected to the big ball in Gif, or just floating around it?
If they are connected, then maybe they are actually installations seen from very afar, like all these automatic footbridges and other structures build by NERV around the Black Moon back before the time skip(look at the first time Misato and Shinji are in NERV HQ at the beginning of 1.0).
If they are floating, then maybe they are sealing something inside the big ball?
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Giji Shinka » Wed May 29, 2013 9:12 am

View Original PostCharsi wrote:During all of those shots of Eva 13 in the sky, do we ever see the pyramid move upwards? I don't think so. As I recall Eva 13 falls down PAST the pyramid after Kaworu spears it and explodes, so if anything while the impact is ending the pyramid is (at best) still moving slowly upward.

I just don't see when Gendo/Fuyutusuki actually went into Guf. All we've got to go on is not clearly seeing the floating pyramid after 4I ends.

The pyramid could've had gone to Guf off-screen (using sudden high-speed ascend boost ^_^ ) while Mari was busy with Eva-13.
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