Gone to Guf. Back for Final. -- Love Gen & Fuyu

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Gone to Guf. Back for Final. -- Love Gen & Fuyu

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Fri May 10, 2013 7:07 pm

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[SPOILERS] Gone to Guf. Back for Final. -- Love Gen & Fuyu


I've started this thread to begin a discussion on what happens to Gendo, Fuyutsuki, and indeed Nerv HQ at the end of 3.33. The last we see of our intrepid pair, they are standing in what looks to be a chamber similar to the Wunder's bridge, as noted by Baz in the Geofront/Moon thread

(By the way, the images in this post are all on the wiki, and are posted here using the wiki image integration system, which is super useful. Click on any image to be taken to a larger version on the wiki proper.

Thanks to Reichu for uploading these images to the Wiki as well. )


[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C1479 gf-bridge.jpg[/wkimg]

But where are they? And where is Nerv HQ?

All we can see is that the chamber is black all about them. However, if we return to the Wunder bridge startup sequence, you can see that in its "inactive" state, the Wunder chamber is initially a dull red, similar to standard entry plugs. Only later does the monitor become active.

Wunder Bridge LCL uncharged/charged  SPOILER: Show

LCL uncharged
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C0399 monitor1.jpg[/wkimg]
LCL charged. Monitor on.
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C0399 monitor2.jpg[/wkimg]

Notice as well the thin orange "latitude" markers on the Wunder bridge globe. These have heading markers as well. If you click on the Gendo and Fuyutsuki image, you can see that they have similar marking on their "Nemesis" bridge. But these markings are not present on the Wunder bridge in its uncharged state. This implies that Gendo and Fuyutsuki's bridge is charged and active.

But if their monitor is on, then why are the seeing inky blackness? Well, probably because the place they are in right now is indeed inky black. I'd like to propose that Gendo and Fuyutsuki have in fact gone through into the Guf.

During Fourth Impact, we get the following shot of some kind of object just inside the Chamber of Guf.
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C1429.jpg[/wkimg]
Here's a zoomed in version (Click for larger image) (Thanks again to Reichu!)
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C1429 crop.jpg[/wkimg]

You can see what appears to be a moonlike globe with long cross shaped struts sticking out of the six cardinal directions. Note also that thin translucent bands are extending downwards from the object. You can actually see these bands in several shots, including from inside Shinji and Kaworu's entry plugs.

However, what concerns us most here is what the bands connect to. In fact, they extend downwards to Nerv HQ.
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C1418.jpg[/wkimg]

As Baz noted:
View Original PostBaz wrote:I'm guessing that they're still in Nerv HQ, which has some kind of massive anti-gravity that saves it from destruction.

These "ropes of light" appear to be that anti-gravity system. Nerv HQ is being hoisted up, probably by the object inside the Chamber of Guf. (Was it always inside Guf, or did it emerge from Nerv HQ?). You can actually see in another shot that the ropes of light connect to the spikes on the top of the Nerv HQ "coffin".
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C1440.jpg[/wkimg]

We've seen these ropes before. The Wunder used similar objects to enable its support fleet to fly.
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C0275 fleet.jpg[/wkimg]
If you look closely, you can also see that the Wunder is holding up its own wings with ropes of light as well.

So there you have it. Nerv HQ has been lifted up into the Chamber of Guf, into "Guf Space" if you will, using the same system as the Wunder uses to levitate. Gendo and Fuyutsuki's image screen shows a black void because that's what the inside of "Guf" looks like -- empty blackness.

One unanswered question here is whether Gendo and Fuyutsuki are in a bridge inside Nerv HQ, or whether they are somehow up further inside the "UFO" object. This isn't very clear, and the ropes of light on the Wunders wings make either option possible. But I would hold that the two have indeed passed through the portal and are now on the other side, which has all sorts of interesting implications.

Consequently, I'm hoping this thread will be tremendous fun!


P.S.
Note that there is one problem with this theory. The very last shot of the object inside the Guf, show as the vortex is closing, shows it to be different to the original image shown above. Nerv HQ is not shown, and the cross now appear to be below the object. Odd indeed. Has Nerv HQ been taken inside the object? Or moved elsewhere?
Final shot of Guf UFO  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C1474 cropped.jpg[/wkimg]
Last edited by ObsessiveMathsFreak on Sun May 26, 2013 7:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri May 10, 2013 7:36 pm

:chinscratch: I've never thought about where the Chamber of Guf led to before. Now that I'm thinking about it, I would guess that they are in a Dirac Sea-esque space. Once again, since that area would be so big, nothing would be appearing on screens. As to their exact location, I would guess the obvious; this Neo-Nerv got sucked into Guf during the sequence where Mari deactivates Evangelion-13. Of course, what Gendo and Fuyutsuki are going to do now is anybody's idea. The only things that we know exist inside of the funky pyramid are this Wunder-like bridge and some construction equipment (see scene w/ Kaworu, Shinji, and the splatchy moon.)

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Postby Reichu » Fri May 10, 2013 7:54 pm

This is one messed-up thread... I like it!

OMF: The Chamber of Guf, or whatever it is, only looks different in the last shot because of perspective. There's a cross sticking out of the very bottom, and the four arms of the cross are what you're seeing.

Nuclear Lunchbox: The pyramid contains all of Nerv's current facilities, it's implied.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri May 10, 2013 8:17 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Nuclear Lunchbox: The pyramid contains all of Nerv's current facilities, it's implied.

For the decanting of Evangelion-13 and the shot of Gendo in his office, everybody appears to be in the old Nerv. Even Kaworu's piano appears to be in the original cage. Since Shinji and Rei Q take the elevator down to do all of these things, I believe that the pyramid is a different entity, with different resources.

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri May 10, 2013 8:34 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Nuclear Lunchbox: The pyramid contains all of Nerv's current facilities, it's implied.

Wait, are you talking about the giant inverted pyramid or the ruins of NERV's pyramid?
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri May 10, 2013 8:35 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Wait, are you talking about the giant inverted pyramid or the ruins of NERV's pyramid?

Currently, our discussion is revolving around the whereabouts of the massive inverted pyramid.

EDIT: Bloody fuck, I'm an idiot. The floaty pyramid contains Nerv... :facepalm: Rei Q must have flown up there. Dammit. Hng.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat May 11, 2013 12:57 am

Seeing as the Guf is a seemingly limitless parallel dimension, I guess it could make sense that we can't see the pyramid inside. It may have been moved further into the Guf along those red thread-like things. What I'm wondering about is whether the red threads were caused by something in Nerv HQ (that is to say, whatever was producing them was outside the Guf and then moved all of Nerv and itself inside) or whether Nerv was getting drawn into the Guf by something that was already inside (say, for example, a Dark!Wunder or the white ufo-thing). It also seems strange that Gendo and Fuyu would actually want to be in the Guf, unless there's something important (Dark!Wunder, or possibly the white ufo and crosses?) that they want to locate. Not really sure how this relates to the "reunite with Yui plan". I'm also not sure how they're going to get out until another Impact occurs, seeing as the Door of Guf closed. It seems that the Guf is no longer an empty container of souls like it was in NGE; rather, it seems that physical objects and people from outside the Guf can now move inside it and survive to some extent. It seems there are objects already in the Guf, although it was empty in NGE.
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Postby Stillborn » Sat May 11, 2013 2:58 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:Seeing as the Guf is a seemingly limitless parallel dimension, I guess it could make sense that we can't see the pyramid inside.


I've read somewhere (maybe even on this forum. Can't remember), that the sign of Final movie, can be read as "endless paralel". Could this mean that whatever happen in Final will find reflection beyond the Doors of Guf?
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Re: [SPOILERS] Gone to ---. Back for Final. -- Love --- &

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Postby Jinroh » Sat May 11, 2013 4:07 am

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:I'd like to propose that Gendo and Fuyutsuki have in fact gone through into the Guf.

wat. It's the weirdest things I've read in ages. Why would they want to go in there? It's suicide and they'd never come back for a fourth movie.

From what we know they used that near-fourth impact to get rid of Seele and fully raise the black moon out of the ground. I don't know why you'd think they'd want to go in there? It's not even implied at all... The most logical place for them to be in is probably the black moon, but maybe the altar is still floating somewhere in the sky, we don't know yet.

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Postby Mt Olympus » Sat May 11, 2013 4:13 am

I'm not sure if you were alluding to this but I don't recall seeing the white moon anywhere during the fourth impact perhaps that was it.This is a very good thread.

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Postby Jinroh » Sat May 11, 2013 4:22 am

I haven't seen anybody talking about a white moon in this thread. Do we even know if it still exists?

edit: You mean the sphere could be the white moon?

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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat May 11, 2013 4:33 am

View Original PostJinroh wrote:wat. It's the weirdest things I've read in ages.

As expected from Eva. ^_^

On-topic: I kinda like the idea that Gendo And Kozo (I'm the only one here who calls him by first name??) went to Guf. Although, this will mess up few theories we have in EvaGeeks....Plus, this makes things even more confusing.
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Postby Mt Olympus » Sat May 11, 2013 4:34 am

Yes, I was thinking that maybe they are using the moon base or their own newly built HQ on the white moon.The moon also seemed to be floating not far off of earth's surface, that could be a testament to the antigravity idea.

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sat May 11, 2013 5:23 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:Seeing as the Guf is a seemingly limitless parallel dimension, I guess it could make sense that we can't see the pyramid inside.

We can see the "UFO" (Moon-FO?") inside though. However, we can no longer see Nerv HQ in the final shot. Along these lines, it occurs to me that the UFO may be a lot larger than Nerv HQ. Maybe it really is the White Moon?

View Original PostJinroh wrote:From what we know they used that near-fourth impact to get rid of Seele and fully raise the black moon out of the ground. I don't know why you'd think they'd want to go in there? It's not even implied at all... The most logical place for them to be in is probably the black moon, but maybe the altar is still floating somewhere in the sky, we don't know yet.

The image on Gendo and Fuyutsuki's "Nemesis" bridge is pitch black. Note that their image screen is fully active, as the Wunder's was. Wherever they are now, it's completely dark.

We can't think in terms of NGE when it comes to this Guf, or this Gendo. We need to ask: "Where would Q-Gendo go?". How would he truly transcend all plots that have come before?
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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat May 11, 2013 5:52 am

View Original PostJinroh wrote:fully raise the black moon

Theory:
Rising the black moon out from the underground might not have been Gendo's goal.
I think that the black moon would have played part in Seele's scenario. But now that Seele failed to bring instrumentality, black moon is useless as well.
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Postby Jinroh » Sat May 11, 2013 5:53 am

Why would he want to go in there? Nothing's shown to enter the Guf, Shinji would have seen it. And it doesn't seem to be possible to open the door without initiating an impact. Supposing Gendo entered the Guf only because he's in a dark room is far fetched imo...

But now that Seele failed to bring instrumentality, black moon is useless as well.

Why would it be useless for Gendo's plans and how can you deduce that knowing we have no information relative to that particular topic yet?

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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat May 11, 2013 5:58 am

View Original PostJinroh wrote:Why would it be useless for Gendo's plans and how can you deduce that knowing we have no information relative to that particular topic yet?

That is called as: speculating and theorize.
Last edited by Giji Shinka on Sat May 11, 2013 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jinroh » Sat May 11, 2013 6:01 am

But if you want to speculate, you need to go through a process in which you find some arguments to defend your theories, otherwise they come out of nowhere.

You can't just straight out say the blackmoon is useless...

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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat May 11, 2013 6:03 am

View Original PostJinroh wrote:You can't just straight out say the blackmoon is useless...

Then say why would black moon be useful? (More than just hosting souls for instrumentality. Gendo obviously doesn't want same thing that Seele does: Instrumentality)

I don't have any arguments why would black moon be useless or useful at this point. I don't know what role it will play. That's why i'm just speculating cause: no ideas. We might see what it does in 4.0.
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Postby Jinroh » Sat May 11, 2013 6:06 am

I didn't say it was useful. I am just saying you can't pretend it's useless without information regarding that particular topic. Do you get my point?

edit: Fair enough. It's gonna be a long and frustrating wait :(


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