Evangelion 3.33 FAQ

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

TonyTH
Adam
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 51
Joined: Nov 06, 2010
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby TonyTH » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:44 am

I've got some general theories I've been meaning to type up. But I did want to say on the "How Shinji learned the Piano so fast" point. It's been pointed out that tree in said scene growing throughout the scene was showing time convenience, right?

Sorry if I'm super late on that one.

Guy Nacks
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2772
Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Guy Nacks » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:52 am

View Original PostTonyTH wrote:I've got some general theories I've been meaning to type up. But I did want to say on the "How Shinji learned the Piano so fast" point. It's been pointed out that tree in said scene growing throughout the scene was showing time convenience, right?


Uh, i just re watched the scene. It isn't growing, it's blowing in the breeze.

Chalk up the "Shinji learning piano at the speed of light" to sloppy writing by Anno.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

facugaich
Embryo
Age: 26
Posts: 3
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Location: Argentina

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby facugaich » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:17 pm

Great article Reichu, it sums up everything I got from the movie during a second watch. Theres' only one thing that's bothering me though, the following answer/speculation:

Why does Mari tell Shinji to help Asuka? / Why is Asuka disappointed that Shinji didn't help her?

Speculation: It is possible that Asuka is referring to Shinji refusing to take action against Bardiel in 2.0, which may have indirectly lead to the loss of her left eye. She may also have been referring to her quarantine after the Bardiel battle. It is also possible that she is referring to Shinji not looking for her immediately after his entry plug landed, although since Shinji had no idea what happened to Asuka after Fourth Impact was averted, this is unlikely. Mari may also have been trying to tell Shinji to go and look for Asuka after ejecting, although she may have also been trying to encourage him to try and interact with Asuka, who had treated him coldly thus far.


That is totally not how I interpreted those lines, so I'd like to give my two cents. The context, based on UTW-Thora subs:

*Kauguu dies*

Mari: The Doors of Guf still haven't closed!
Mari: So Pups was SEELE's backup!

*Eva-13 is falling down when Mari catches it*

Mari: Get a grip on yourself, Pups!
Mari: Stop being such a baby!
Mari: At least save the Princess!
Mari: You're man, aren't you?!


Now, Mari's goal at this point is to stop 4I and she has identified Shinji being in Eva-13 as the reason the Doors of Guf haven't closed yet, so everything she says I interpret as "Stop doing what you're doing and help us/come to our side (Wille's)". And in relation to that, the line "At least save the Princess!" to me just sounds like "(If you won't do it for Wille/the greater good,) at least do it for Asuka!".

Later, when Asuka opens the plug and says "You didn't come and help me", I interpret that as a reference to the above Mari scene and meaning "You didn't do it for me", with "it" referring to siding with Wille and stopping 4I. Furthermore, in a more literal sense, siding with Wille would mean that Shinji would help Asuka (in her goals and during combat) and at the same time save her (from 4I).

I think these two scenes should also be seen in relation to the opening sequence, in which Asuka, overwhelmed by the <whatevers>, shouts "Do something Shinji!" and he actually helps/saves her.

So my interpretation is that the "help/save me" idea is being used by Asuka/Mari in both the more literal "switch sides right now" sense and as an implicit "Do it for me/her". In the case of Asuka, this could be a genuine request seeing that she is still expecting something of their relationship as explained elsewhere on the FAQ. In the case of Mari, she's basically trying to capitalize on their relationship for Wille's sake.

Oh and I know this all sounds like a complicated explanation for two simple lines of dialogue, and that's what it is, but that's only because the meaning comes to me so naturally from the context and what I feel are the intentions of the creators that I'm finding it hard to put it into words.

Dream
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3284
Joined: Dec 08, 2011

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Dream » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:28 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Uh, i just re watched the scene. It isn't growing, it's blowing in the breeze.

Chalk up the "Shinji learning piano at the speed of light" to sloppy writing by Anno.


lol

And regarding facugaich's input, i hope this isn't too rude but i find the idea of Mari attempting to "recruit" Shinji in such a moment as far too unlikely given they were just trying to kill him and Wille's previous hostility towards Shinji.
"Every line is a joy" -Kaworu Nagisa.

"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

facugaich
Embryo
Age: 26
Posts: 3
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Location: Argentina

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby facugaich » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:57 pm

View Original PostDream wrote:lol

And regarding facugaich's input, i hope this isn't too rude but i find the idea of Mari attempting to "recruit" Shinji in such a moment as far too unlikely given they were just trying to kill him and Wille's previous hostility towards Shinji.


Dude no, I don't think anyone at Wille wanted to actually kill Shinji, they were just angry at him. Misato even had the chance and didn't take it. Mari is probably the one that feels the less hatred towards Shinji in the whole movie, if at all.

Kendrix
Defender of Puppy Boy
Defender of Puppy Boy
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 5007
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: Germany
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Kendrix » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:46 am

View Original PostDream wrote:lol

And regarding facugaich's input, i hope this isn't too rude but i find the idea of Mari attempting to "recruit" Shinji in such a moment as far too unlikely given they were just trying to kill him and Wille's previous hostility towards Shinji.


Mari isn't the rest of WILLE.
She hasn't shown any actual hostility whatosoever towards Shinji, a few secs before that, she was saying some variation of "Hang in there, I'm comming for you."

She knows a substantial lot more than anyone else, so she's in a position to see that Shinji is just a manipulated, clueless kid. Also, she's crazy and probably doesn't mind the near apocalypse as much as anyone else, at least, she's slurping tea and painting her stuff bright pink in the face of it.
All that's missing is glueing a set of plush dices to the wall of EVa 08's entryplug XD

She's being sympathetic here, as someone with a blunt, unfiltered personality like Mari's can be in an intense situation like that.
It's more a thing of "Instead dwelling on what you can't change anymore, look at what is NOT lost yet. Asuka's still alive (and we've seen earlier that Mari is aware of their former friendship) isn't that a potential reason to go on living?", with the last line being an addendum of "...and go inform yourself a bit so you won't be anyone's pawn anymore." which Mari is pretty much the patronsaint of - shev sure knows how this particular world works, and she has a similar understanding of her own being, with all it's edges and weird parts. That's the main difference between the two of them.
Hence why she calls him a "Puppy" [of Nerv], as in "lapdog", but in an affectionate cutesy way, not like she actually resents him. Basically, she gives a clueless and hopeless person the advice of trying to become less clueless and not give up - that's a nice thing to do, and something she's doing for his sake despite their positions in this great sheme (See also when she was willing to just help him escape in 2.0), I mean, he COULD use some guidance - you can't fault him for not having been able to archieve that yet, considering his age and the unfortunate circumstances, but wouldn't taking an informed, empowered position on this chess board, as opposed to that of an unwitting pawn, would be a great and adult thing for him to become if he ever got the chance/circumstances that would allow it (which his current state isn't, but we don't know what happens in final, perhaps Anno will be feeling generous that day)

Who would nickname someone they hate after a cute animal? Especially if they're animal-lovers. (The mansion full of dogs and parrots may be apocryphical, but the scent-fixation, fondness of cat-noises, and the longing look at seeing a flock of birds still speak for themselves. )

As for Asuka's line, I've always seen that as a retort to his claims of wanting to save the world.
"You didn't do this to save ME [or anyoner else], it's just your own butt you're interested in, you useless pile of hydrocarbon! Take This! And This! And this!" *kick**kick*kick*
Make Clone Love Not Clone War

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 6838
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:21 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:As for Asuka's line, I've always seen that as a retort to his claims of wanting to save the world.
"You didn't do this to save ME [or anyoner else], it's just your own butt you're interested in, you useless pile of hydrocarbon! Take This! And This! And this!" *kick**kick*kick*

But then it's a very odd choice of words if her line meant to be a sarcastic reply to his claims that he wanted to save the world, her line should have been something like : "You didn't saved us/the world. Always thinking only about you like usual." Unless that this line was intended to hint that Asuka is as me-centric as Shinji...

Also remember that in the GitHub translation, her line was "You didn't come to help me.", she's specifically referring to the fact he should have make an action, but didn't do it.

A possibility is that even though she ejected, her entry plug's comm system still could catch Mari's speech to Shinji to go to help her, and then waited around her entry plug to see if he would come to her, and seeing that he wasn't coming she began to search for him instead.
That would explain why she looked so pissed when she found out that Shinji actually didn't bothered to move from his entry plug, instead preferring sulking inside it in a fetal position.

Of course, that's from her point of view, we know that things were more complicated and that Shinji suffered so much emotional traumas that by the time Mari gave him her rousing speech he was too far gone to probably even notice that someone was talking to him, but Asuka couldn't tell that at first glance, let's see how she will react in FINAL when she will realize that his silence and sluggish attitude isn't him childishly pouting, but a really grave case of psychotic catatonia.

You could argue that this theory is unlikely, since then how would have Shinji found her entry plug, but Asuka managed to find his, so it mustn't be that difficult.(besides since everything is dead screaming her name must carry very far)
Last edited by ElMariachi on Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Dream
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3284
Joined: Dec 08, 2011

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Dream » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:21 pm

View Original Postfacugaich wrote:Dude no, I don't think anyone at Wille wanted to actually kill Shinji, they were just angry at him. Misato even had the chance and didn't take it. Mari is probably the one that feels the less hatred towards Shinji in the whole movie, if at all.


I'm not sure if we can be certain of that. We have only seen a small portion of Wille's crew and what little did we see wasn't exactly friendly. Given his apparent status as the one who brought the world to that state and whatever embelishment people added about Shinji with time, i wouldn't be surprised if there was people who would have tried to kill Shinji had they been able to, Misato's wishes be damned. Or at least i wouldn't be surprised if Shinji felt that way.

Regarding Mari, i'll admit to feeling too lazy at the moment as to elaborate beyond writing +1 to Kendrix's post.
"Every line is a joy" -Kaworu Nagisa.

"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Kendrix
Defender of Puppy Boy
Defender of Puppy Boy
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 5007
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: Germany
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Kendrix » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:33 am

Doesn't it strike you as this sarcastic, "Well, you sere didn't do anything for ME" sort of talking?

In any case, this IS a debate generated, controversial line, so info materials should treat it as such before we have final. Like, "It could have been this. Or that."

Consider that Asuka has *already ejected* from unit two at this point, the EVA itself was mostly blown up, and, so far, we don't have any example of anyone recieving intercom messages directly in a plug that's not connected to an EVA, so any possibility of how she could have what Mari was saying (while plunging down into an abyss quite a bit away from wherever Asuka's plug was shot to) would be highly speculative.

If Asuka actually expected him to seek her out, she must've come to that conclusion without Mari's words... which doesn't make that much sense.
Considering they just battled, and she thought he was willingly working for the enemy, wouldn't you expect him to flee from whatever direction Asuka is in?

Perhaps it was worded in the singular for the simple purpose of alluding to that whole "Did I save her?" arc phrase, as a cherry on the "Congratulations, you failed again!"-cake.
Make Clone Love Not Clone War

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 6838
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:01 pm

Well maybe it's just me, but Asuka never striked me as someone who would use subtle sarcasm, but make it very clear that she's insulting, like in NGE when she talked about the "invincible Shinji-sama" who beat her synch rate just before Leliel.

I would have seen a sarcastic line from here at the end of Q as something along the line of : "Weren't you bragging about saving the world gaki Shinji? Well you didn't even saved me!"

Maybe I'm also biased by the official French translation which translated her line as "You didn't lifted a finger to help me.", clearly showing that she expected him to do something and is disappointed by the fact he didn't.

As for if an ejected entry could pick up a transmission, to be fair that's the first time in all of the franchise that this damned emergency mechanism worked(and three times in a row no less!), so we don't have any information about what systems continue to work once disconnected from an Eva, but personally I don't see a battery inside the entry plug connected to a communication system that far fetched, especially after 14 years of technological upgrades, and especially now that the Evas aren't part of a line of defense anymore, but used in an offensive role in enemy territory, where an ejected pilot will need to communicate with HQ to know if it can be picked up on the post or if it should move to a more secured location.

As for Asuka expecting Shinji to flee from her because she thinks he's an enemy willingly working for Gendo, she already dismissed that possibility when she asked if he was trying to start 3I all over again(understand "are you on SEELE's and NERV's side?") and he responded that he tried to fix everything and save the world(i.e. "No, I'm not on their side, I'm just trying to repair the world and don't give a shit about their plans!"), which also the moment she understood that he was actually being manipulated and about to do their bidding, albeit unknowingly. And Asuka being Asuka, his ignorance greatly got on her nerves, leading to her comment that he really is a little brat, which led Shinji to completely lose it.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Nightwing
Embryo
Age: 20
Posts: 38
Joined: Oct 18, 2013
Location: United States
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Nightwing » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:47 pm

Since this conversation is well over might i ask one question. ehm...JUST WHO THE HECK REBUILT/BUILT NEO NERV HEADQUARTERS , ITS MP EVAS(which i think will turn out to be the FoIs but that's for another argument),THE BIRTHING STATION FOR UNIT 13, AS WELL AS WHERE THEY GET THE POWER , AND HOW THEY GOT THE PLACE TO FLY!.And don't give me crap about how Gendo and Fuyutsuki could have done it in 14 years.That's Bull. There is no way that is the case Gendo is like 40 and Fuyutsuki looks half dead. Rei Q/3 or Kaworu couldn't have done it either unless they used some Angel superfixerupper power i didnt know about
Give me back Ayanami!

TheFriskyIan
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Posts: 1769
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Location: The Holocharts
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby TheFriskyIan » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:04 pm

View Original PostNightwing wrote:And don't give me crap about how Gendo and Fuyutsuki could have done it in 14 years.That's Bull.

"Oh sorry Fuyutsuki...everyone defected so the amount of EVERYTHING you have to do just doubled."
Please just call me Ian, "TheFrisky" is more of a title.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 6838
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:52 pm

Well, there is the old NERV logo painted on the outer wall where Kaworu reveal to Shinji what happened 14 years ago, so it's probably that NERV didn't split immediately after N3I, but that this "floating HQ" has been constructed meanwhile, as well that the giant "lid" blocking the access to Lilith's Chamber(you can see cranes and constructions trucks).

No idea when or how the HQ got airborne though.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Nightwing
Embryo
Age: 20
Posts: 38
Joined: Oct 18, 2013
Location: United States
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Nightwing » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:50 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Well, there is the old NERV logo painted on the outer wall where Kaworu reveal to Shinji what happened 14 years ago, so it's probably that NERV didn't split immediately after N3I, but that this "floating HQ" has been constructed meanwhile, as well that the giant "lid" blocking the access to Lilith's Chamber(you can see cranes and constructions trucks).

No idea when or how the HQ got airborne though.
If thats true where are the workers now ,and how did they make unit 13 WITHOUT the possible workers
Give me back Ayanami!

Shinoyami65
Seed
Seed
User avatar
Age: 20
Posts: 3926
Joined: Jul 26, 2012
Location: Vinculum Gate
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:49 am

Automated systems, probably. We see a big conveyor system carring Eva armor around, so why not an automated construction system? Additionally, since Evas are "grown" more than "built" it's likely that they could have just set its growth process in motion without the need for any manual labour, then had machines apply the armor.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 6838
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:54 am

Yeah, basically the workers created the automated infrastructure 14 years ago, and since then said automated systems take care of the rest.
It's also probable that they have some NS used as construction robots if neo-NERV need any new infrastructure to be built.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 22560
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Living in Houston, TX
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:38 pm

I don't think this was in the FAQ, but what was that hologram object (either a sphere or a cube) Mari was pushing during the final battle? I think it's the same scene Mari is telling Asuka how the 12th Angel is nothing but a core. Don't have the film on my computer, so I can't pull up a screencap.
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

Sephizim
Sachiel
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 208
Joined: Aug 21, 2011
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sephizim » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:51 pm

SPOILER: Show
Image


You mean this thing? Yeah, I was kinda wondering the same thing.[/spoiler]

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 22560
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Living in Houston, TX
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:00 pm

Yep, that shot exactly. Thanks for the screencap!
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

Nuclear Lunchbox
Agent Ahegao
Agent Ahegao
User avatar
Age: 20
Posts: 10212
Joined: Dec 13, 2012
Location: 可塑の椅子

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:00 am

The 3.03 special feature reveals that Mari is examining different types of tea. She is British, after all. ;)


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests