WIKI DRIVE: Character and Relationship pages

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WIKI DRIVE: Character and Relationship pages

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sun May 05, 2013 6:15 pm

This is a follow on from my proposal for a new direction for the wiki.

Lately I've been making extensive changes to Shinji's character page, and also the Gendo and Shinji relationship page. I consider these pages to be basic and intermediate pages respectively.

Right now, I'd like to propose a drive for editors to begin writing basic character and intermediate relationship pages. The Shinji and G&S pages constitute my suggestions for what these pages should look like, but editors should feel free to edit as they see fit. If you think something needs changing then change it. All you need is a wiki account.

The goal for these pages is for editing to be a relatively easy, distributed and uncontroversial effort. We the editors need to learn how to start working on the wiki, and with each other again. Therefore, I'd recommend people hold off on writing theory pages for a while until we've got a good set of basic and intermediate pages down. Essentially these pages should contain the most basic and descriptive content about the series, nothing theoretical or analytical

I'll be posting a little more on the pages that need to be worked on, the format I personally had in mind for them, and I'll also be giving information on the various templates you can see being used in the pages. However right now I'd like to hear other's opinions on and questions about what needs to be done.

P.S.

Keep in mind that most character pages are unlikely to be as longs as Shinji's(Unless you want them to be). What's needed here is a collective effort, with many editors adding to pages "brick by brick" or "sentence by sentence" if you will. So, who's interested?
Last edited by ObsessiveMathsFreak on Sun May 05, 2013 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Stryker » Sun May 05, 2013 7:00 pm

I'm going to do a less analytic watch after the current one with another friend, so I'll probably start working on the pages then. It might be a while though, considering the pace I am moving at.
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Postby Catamari » Sun May 05, 2013 7:03 pm

View Original PostStryker wrote:I'm going to do a less analytic watch after the current one with another friend, so I'll probably start working on the pages then. It might be a while though, considering the pace I am moving at.


Interestingly, I've been planning to do a character relationship analysis watch of the series. I just have to get used to subs.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sun May 05, 2013 7:04 pm

People mentioned that a task list would help in giving the drive direction, so here's a listing of the current character pages. I've ranked these by a suggested "priority". Note I'm starting with a few "easier" pages as well, to get us going. This isn't the order people _have_ to start on, just a suggestion.

Simple pages:

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Ryoji_Kaji
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Kensuke_Aida
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Toji_Suzuhara
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Hikari_Horaki
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Pen_Pen
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Maya_Ibuki
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Makoto_Hyuga
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Shigeru_Aoba

I don't think there's anything controversial (which isn't theoretical) that can bog us down when it comes to those pages. They could also serve as a testbed for discussion and experimentation with how character pages should be presented and formatted.

The next pages are more interesting (obviously), and are probably what most people would like to start editing. If you feel you can, then please do so!

Main Pages:

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Shinji_Ikari
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Misato_Katsuragi
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Asuka_Langley_Soryu
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Rei_Ayanami
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Gendo_Ikari
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Ritsuko_Akagi
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Kaworu_Nagisa
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Keel_Lorenz

The next few pages will not be I think as extensive as the main pages, but will nonetheless involve a lot of linking to, say, intermediate and advanced relationships and theory and analysis pages. Specifically, these pages might require a lot of specialized information.

Other Character pages:
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Naoko_Akagi
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Yui_Ikari
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Kozo_Fuyutsuki
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Kyoko_Zeppelin_Soryu
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Dr._Katsuragi
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Shiro_Tokita
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Asuka_Shikinami_Langley
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Mari_Makinami_Illustrious
Last edited by ObsessiveMathsFreak on Sun May 05, 2013 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sun May 05, 2013 7:25 pm

One thing I should mention about embarking on any extensive re-edits of existing pages is what to do with existing material on the page.

For starters, I would say that until the new material grows to an appropriate size, the old material should just be left on the page. A lot of the existing pages have Profile sections, with a character overview/psychological profile. In the case of Shinji, I've moved this out into a Shinji (Profile) page.

The second kind of information on most character pages is the "Relationships section". In the case of Shinji, I've replaced this completely with a new "Profile and Relationships" table to make this more visual and navigable. I moved some of the existing information out into the relevant newly created character pages; for example, the Asuka and Shinji (Relationship) page, which is still in a fairly nascent state.

There's no hurry on moving this information out though until the relevant relationship pages are up and running to some degree. Right now, the character pages need Character summaries, detailing the events of that characters life, and over the course of the series.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sun May 05, 2013 7:33 pm

On the matter of Character Summaries. This is basically my suggestion for what should be the main content of any character page.

Essentially the summary is a broad, abridged summary of what happens to that character over the course of the show. The main events should of source be listed here, but I leave the detail up to individual editors.

We should probably start these summaries by filling in a skeletal list of events. For example, for Asuka, a basic skeletal framework could be

- Early Life
- Arrival with Pacific fleet
- Living with Shinji and Misato
- Kissing Shinji
- Arael's mind invasion
- The End of Evangelion

That would be a basic skeletal frame to get us all going. This is a suggestion. Asuka is not my expertise, so others may have a better idea of how to arrange such a summary, or what the key events should be.
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Postby TheFriskyIan » Sun May 05, 2013 7:39 pm

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:On the matter of Character Summaries. This is basically my suggestion for what should be the main content of any character page.

Essentially the summary is a broad, abridged summary of what happens to that character over the course of the show. The main events should of source be listed here, but I leave the detail up to individual editors.

It's kind of hard to do for some of the more minor characters though. Taking Maya's page for instance. Everything you can say about her that's relevant is already in the page but it still looks like it needs more. I wouldn't know what to do with her page.
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Postby Stryker » Sun May 05, 2013 7:49 pm

Also, question: Should this be by episode-to-episode basis, or should we do this by arc-to-arc (1-6, 7-14, 15-19, 20-24, if I could recall correctly) basis?
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Postby TheFriskyIan » Sun May 05, 2013 7:52 pm

View Original PostStryker wrote:Also, question: Should this be by episode-to-episode basis, or should we do this by arc-to-arc (1-6, 7-14, 15-19, 20-24, if I could recall correctly) basis?

I wonder this also considering Gendo's relationship with Shinji page kind of does a blend between the two. I can't really tell if it goes one way or another.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sun May 05, 2013 8:02 pm

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:It's kind of hard to do for some of the more minor characters though. Taking Maya's page for instance. Everything you can say about her that's relevant is already in the page but it still looks like it needs more. I wouldn't know what to do with her page.

Then start with a character you can write about. My suggestions above are only suggestions. If you feel you can start writing summaries or frameworks for the Asuka or Misato pages, then go for it.

View Original PostStryker wrote:Also, question: Should this be by episode-to-episode basis, or should we do this by arc-to-arc (1-6, 7-14, 15-19, 20-24, if I could recall correctly) basis?

I went with "arcs" appropriate to the character in question. For example, for Shinji, I had a section on the Hedgehog's dilemma, as that's a pretty important episode for him. But later on, I put in larger "arc" sections, basically just to throw in material that otherwise wouldn't have a home otherwise.

Where to place sections or even content is something individual editors need to bring their own creativity and judgement to. If in doubt about creating sections -- then don't; just write the basic information and let another editor decide on how it should be delineated or organized.

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:I wonder this also considering Gendo's relationship with Shinji page kind of does a blend between the two. I can't really tell if it goes one way or another.

It's supposed to be a two in one page, covering the relationship from all angles. Otherwise we'd have double the pages and things could get pretty confusing. The trouble with that particular relationship is that Gendo is very taciturn, so much of it is from Shinji's perspective anyway.

But in general, my thinking was to have one relationship page. We should have separate Theory and analysis pages for relationships as well, but that's for later I think. Right now, the wiki need basic descriptions of how pairs of characters interact over the series.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sun May 05, 2013 8:56 pm

I've belted out the bones of a character summary for Asuka. It needs a lot of work, but it's a start. Feel free to start anywhere. Sentence by sentence, it'll will slowly improve.

I might try firing out a few more charcter/ relationship frameworks just to get us started on these pages. If anyone has any pages they'd like to see started so they can work on them, the let me know.
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Postby Dream » Tue May 07, 2013 12:11 am

Oh, wow. First of all, thank you very much for all the work put into this, OMF. It's certainly something the wiki needs, and hopefully this will help all of us editors into action.

I've taken a general look at Shinji's page. The first feedback that comes to mind is that everything feels a bit... like there are many things fighting for my visual attention at any given part of the page, as well as a little like there's not one hiearchy of elements working towards a visual unity. I think the main elements that contribute to this are the cluster of pictures that accompany each section, the red and blue links on the text, and the monotone feeling of the formatting. While the current style of the page (i'm looking at the summary section while writing this) is extremely informative, i feel it might a little unpleasant to the eyes/hard to read due to these factors. The profile/relationship chart might also be a bit too crass, but i'm not sure if there's a way around that.

Regarding the divisions of character summaries, i agree that it would be far more benefical for the wiki if editors use their own judgement and creativity in deciding which would be the best way to make and organize said divisions. Even thought there is the option of using the series's arcs for reference (prologue arc, action arc, etc.) i don't think that method would be as good.

Once again, thanks for all the work put into this, OMF. It's really inspiring and commendable.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Tue May 07, 2013 4:35 pm

View Original PostDream wrote:I've taken a general look at Shinji's page. The first feedback that comes to mind is that everything feels a bit... like there are many things fighting for my visual attention at any given part of the page, as well as a little like there's not one hiearchy of elements working towards a visual unity.
Thanks for the feedback. If you feel things need changing, then by all means take an editorial stick to the page. My feeling was that the images might help people visually navigate. Maybe it's better without them, or with them being less wide?

Keep in mind though that the red links are uncreated pages. Mostly my suggestions for pages which probably should be created at some stage. I think it's essential that a basic page like Shinji's should link to many. We could try creating stubs on the red-linked pages to see if it makes things less harsh.

Regarding the character relationship/profile template, I am certainly not an artist. Feel free to suggest alterations. The template code is a little tricky, so if you want me to implement something, let me know.

View Original PostDream wrote:Regarding the divisions of character summaries, i agree that it would be far more benefical for the wiki if editors use their own judgement and creativity in deciding which would be the best way to make and organize said divisions.

Absolutely. These pages are only my suggestions, and I'm just one editor. I'm hoping that others will step in and improve things extensively as more summaries are written.
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Postby Dream » Sat May 11, 2013 7:57 pm

Regarding the images, i think it would be better if, instead of a group of images, it would be just one image that succintly and accurately captures/describes the core or essence of what that arc is about. I think that if the arcs are properly divided with regards to the narrative, then we are guaranteed to find such an image for every arc, even if it won't be an exactly easy task. Another thing that i noticed recently is that the arcs/episodes in the summary section have a bit too many divisions, so i hope you don't mind me altering that a bit.

EDIT: For the moment, i added the images that were in "Hedgehog's Dilemma" montage box to the one in "Arrival in Tokyo-3" to let you decide what to do with them.

The template code is indeed something out of my scope, so i'm afraid i wouldn't be able to make much edits for it at the time. One recommendation i would make is that the names/titles in it don't pop up in the contents box. Also, i think turning some of the red links into stubs might indeed help the visual aspect.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Wed May 15, 2013 6:42 am

View Original PostDream wrote:I think that if the arcs are properly divided with regards to the narrative, then we are guaranteed to find such an image for every arc, even if it won't be an exactly easy task.

The difficulty with dividing character summaries by arc is that the narrative arc may not be a suitable division for that particular character. What I had in mind for each summary was a section and division focused on that particular character, excluding other concerns. If the narrative arcs do work, that's fine, but if they don't the character may need something else (e.g. Kaworu).

View Original PostDream wrote:The template code is indeed something out of my scope, so i'm afraid i wouldn't be able to make much edits for it at the time. One recommendation i would make is that the names/titles in it don't pop up in the contents box. Also, i think turning some of the red links into stubs might indeed help the visual aspect.

There are quite a few example on the Montage Box template page. If you want to remove the title, simply remove it from the montage box code.

As to images, I'm kind of visually focused myself, but the amount of images is a matter of taste for individual ediotrs. The reason so many are stacked into the Montage box is because Mediawiki tends to flake out formatting-wise if too many image thumbs are used.
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